Replies

1. 
   douglas2cats | Jan 24, 2005 04:12pm | #1

   There's a pretty active thread going on at the moment that might help you with the questions on the jointer. It started out as a "Which 6" jointer to get" question, but has sort of devolved into 6" vs. 8" and what deals are out there, etc.

   http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages/?msg=21389.1

    

   I love the smell of sawdust in the morning.

2. 
   USANigel | Jan 24, 2005 04:16pm | #2

   I have the Dewalt 746k table saw and a delta 6" jointer. The table saw is "spot on" and, depending on the blade, I don't need to use the jointer. The table saw gives me dead square and a very very smooth finish. So I can glue up straight from the saw or I run through the planer (much more useful than the joiner)

1. 
   mudman | Jan 25, 2005 08:32pm | #16

   You are assuming that the lumber was already flat and straight. Having a jointer opens a whole new world by being able to buy rough stock. The primary purpose for a jointer is not for glue-ups but for trueing crooked or rough lumber.

   Mike

   please excuse my spelling.

    

    

   Also, a planer is uselss if the board is bowed or crooked. The sad truth is that you need both machines. Although I would get the planer first because at least then you can thickness lumber that is already straight.

   Edited 1/25/2005 12:38 pm ET by mike

1. 
   USANigel | Jan 26, 2005 05:50am | #19

   Good points mike, I have little access to rough lumber. So my jointer get very little use.

3. 
   hammer1 | Jan 24, 2005 05:01pm | #3

   If you surface a lot of rough stock with a planer, you will want a large joiner. If you don't have a planer and need to get straight edges for the saw, go with the cabinet saw and 6".
   I don't think you can go wrong with either combination.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

4. 
   forestgirl | Jan 24, 2005 07:36pm | #4

   If you shift your jointer focus from Delta to Grizzly, you should be able to save some money and still get an excellent 8" machine.  Possibly a better deal on a tablesaw also.  What's the total cost of the General "great deal" including shipping (if applicable)?

   Tablesaws  The G0444Z is virtually identical to the General contractor saw, the G0576 is a left tilt version.  1023 series saw would give you a quality cabinet saw for as low as $955. 

   Jointers   The G0500 is the best-known machine, but the 1018 or 1018W should be just as good.  3 blades instead of 4, shorter bed.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   Dustmight | Jan 24, 2005 08:23pm | #6

   Forestgirl said: "The G0444Z is virtually identical to the General contractor saw, the G0576 is a left tilt version." 

   Hi Forestgirl (and Fred) -  I know I sound like a homer routing for the "hometeam", but I think the word "virtually" is an oversimplification that leaves out a couple of points worth mentioning.  The bodies of the saws look alike, and both have motors rated at 2hp.  Buyers should consider that Griz motor draws 24/12 amps while the GI draws 15/7.5 (110v/220v), which means the Griz will require either a 130v 110v circuit or 220v b/c a standard 110v circuit isn't sufficient.  The fences are different enough to note too, although I think both are excellent....the GI fence is a Canadian made licensed Biesemeyer.  Then there's dealer support vs mail order, and 2 year warranty vs 1 year warranty, and the fact that GI offers left tilt or right tilt models for the same price.  The GI also has a long railed fence version for a minimal cost (~ $20-$50), whereas long rails for the Griz requires the purchase of entire fence and long rail set for $269 plus $30 s/h.  (meaning you can resell the original fence to recoup those costs, but as far as I know Griz makes no accomodation for exchange)

   At $699 + any applicable tax for the GI vs $615 for the G0576 plus any applicable s/h ($78) for a total of $693, the GI costs ~ $7-60 more (mileage may vary).  The differences may or may not be worth the added cost to a buyer depending on what their objectives and circumstances are.  But those differences are all things I'd want to know about that would influence the decision to some degree.    

1. 
   forestgirl | Jan 25, 2005 12:29am | #7

   That's the reason I asked about the "good deal" on the General.  My friend who got one last summer spent quite a bit more on his, so my frame of reference was up for question.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   forestgirl | Jan 25, 2005 12:43am | #8

   Hmmmmmm, are you sure the General is 2 HP?  15 amps is even less than what my Jet 1.5HP draws (18 amps).  Hard to imagine the General would be more than 1.5HP, and they don't specify on their web site what the HP rating is (yes, y'all, I know HP ratings aren't objective).  I'm speaking of the GI 50-175 and 185 here.

   I'll email my friend and ask him to look at his motor plate.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   woodensplinter | Jan 25, 2005 01:39am | #9

   I checked the manual for my GI 50-175 - it states 15 amp. 2 HP.   (Motor's out in the shop buried under my outfeed table, which is bolted to the saw.)  Haven't tripped a breaker yet.   Power?  It cuts faster than I can accurately push stock through it.

   Edited 1/24/2005 5:43 pm ET by wooden splinter

2. 
   Dustmight | Jan 25, 2005 02:19pm | #13

   Hi again Forestgirl - Well, even though the discussion appears to be academic at this point, the GI is stated to be 2hp on the motor tag and specs....it may be optimistic, but that's what it says.  It is strong, FWW pointed out the power during their tests, it does have a run capacitor which may help hp, and then there's always power factors and efficiency factors that go into a hp calculation in addition to amp draw.  I haven't put the power to the test againsts the Griz 2hp yet using the same blade and wood, etc., but it'd be fun to get the opportunity.  I hear the Grizzly's a "bear"! (LOL)

1. 
   forestgirl | Jan 25, 2005 07:35pm | #14

   "I hear the Grizzly's a "bear"! "   Oooooo, don't quit your day job!  ROFL.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   Dustmight | Jan 25, 2005 07:52pm | #15

   Forestgirl said:  ""I hear the Grizzly's a "bear"! "   Oooooo, don't quit your day job!  ROFL."

   Most good ideas come as a result of a bunch of bad ideas....I guess the same is true of jokes!  "Bear" with me and I get a good one eventually!  ;)

    

   Edited 1/25/2005 11:53 am ET by sliversRus

2. 
   frederic | Jan 25, 2005 02:31am | #11

   Unfortunately, Grizzly don't ship to Canada. My choice would be obvious: cabinte saw with 8¨ jointer, both fron Grizzly.  Ah, borders...

   A good deal is a 50-175 left tilt contractor saw for 850$ canadian.

    

1. 
   forestgirl | Jan 25, 2005 07:04am | #12

   Ahhhhh, gotcha!  Well, from all reports, you should be a happy camper with the General.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

5. 
   notrix | Jan 24, 2005 07:41pm | #5

   I for one would opt to spend the bundle on a good table saw. You can work around not having a jointer.

   I base this on personal experience. Years ago I worked in a professional shop with the best of everything at hand. Since then I'd been using Contractors saws in my own shops. They work fine..but...I for got the difference between them and cabinet saws. I just up graded to a Powermatic 66 and it's night and day. Everything is better about it. The foot print isn't much bigger than the CSaw. I spent about $1000 on a new Delta contractors saw which was the saw, link belt and turned pullies (sheaves) and a roller stand. I got the used Powermatic for $1400 with all that already included and am told by some I over paid.

   With a quaility cabinet saw you can make jigs to joint boards if need be. I've been doing this for years as I strive to get a larger shop so I can add a good jointer. An excellent jointr hand plane is $100-$400 depending on make and age. I just got a nice Keen Kutter for $125 and it's a pleasure to use.

   A jointer is no doubt a valuable tool but one I've been able to do good work with out. A planer a more valuable tool as it allows me to buy rougher lumber and surface it quickly.

   My motto: "Buy the best and cry once"

   BTW I was only able to get $500 for my mint 2 year old CSaw after advertising for 2 months. Their resale value isn't very good around here it appears.

   HTH
   Notrix

6. 
   Midnight | Jan 25, 2005 02:05am | #10

   Fred.. if it were my decision, I'd sink all my cash into as good a table saw as the cash will stretch to. Thesedays I plane and joint my boards by hand, getting results that machines can't hope to match much less better... I have the luxury of having time to spend doing this.

   I know from personal experience that a 2nd rate saw will give 2nd rate results no matter how well planed the stock is, hence my reasoning above...

   Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

7. 
   mvac | Jan 26, 2005 01:53am | #17

   Fred,

   As I mentioned in the thread that douglas2cats referred to, the Yorkcraft 6" and 8" jointers are essentially the Delta X5's - same manufacturer, same design w/ a couple of minor exceptions. For a little more than the cost of the 6" X5, you could get the 8" Yorkcraft. My 6" is great. Square and smooth as a baby's bottom. Also, the distributor, Wilke Machinery, (http://www.wilkemach.com) is great to work with. Well worth checking out.

   Hope this helps,

   Mitch

8. 
   RAD | Jan 26, 2005 05:15am | #18

   Hi Fred

   Delta has a low dollar cabinet saw ($799 Canadian) that is price comparable to any good contractors saw. The Delta G655, is made in Delta's China factory to Delta specs. I purchased one last fall and am very pleased with it.

1. 
   frederic | Jan 26, 2005 03:53pm | #20

   I went to a delta distributor yesterday. He told me about such a saw (3 HP, 3 straps, enclosed base, decent guide, made in china) but for 1600$ cdn. I has to be a different one I guess. But this salesman definetly was not a good one. He was only trying to sell me the big stuff, and changed his mind several times about wich machine is  better than the other (both about TS and jointer).

   I've been told that those saws have corrugated straps, wich makes them a lot like direct drive machines. I've also been told that such a compromise might not be worth it, that it might be wiser to buy either a good contractor's or a real cabinet. Help.

   Again, I wish Grizzly agreed to ship in canada! Maybe I should consider going all hand tools!

   Fred

    

    

1. 
   Dustmight | Jan 26, 2005 07:54pm | #21

   Fred - IIRC, the Delta 36-655 is a hybrid, not a full cabinet saw.  It's likely to have a 1-3/4hp motor with 1 or 2 belts (straps, eh...).  As far as I know Canada also offers General/GI, King Canada/King Industrial, Canwood (from House of Tools), Craftex (from Busy Bee...which is owned by the Griz owner's brother), plus some variations of Jet and PM...although I'm not sure they're the same as what we have here.  Canadianwoodworking.com might offer some more specific guidance.

9. 
   frederic | Feb 26, 2005 07:23pm | #22

   This is mostly for those who will search the archives on that subject.

   I'm the one who posted this question, and finally bought a GI 50-185 contractor TS with a King Canada 8¨ jointer (King Canada is a lower priced maker, same model as Delta, but built in Taiwan with old molds, comparable to Yorkcraft, I suppose). I figured the 6 jointer cant do some of the jobs a 8¨ will handle, but the contractor saw will do everything a cabinet saw will (just not as fast and conveniently), except for collecting dust.

   My opinions:

   1-Jointer:....WOW! It's not only about 8¨ wide cutterhead. It's about 2HP engine. I'm glad I bought this tool. Though is is a ¨lower quality¨ tool, I can't imagine it doing a better job. Perfect for me out of the box. I cost 800$ less than the DJ-20. My only concern is about my pride, I would like to have only General tool in my shop, but.... The difference with higher priced tools is in the swich, finish, table height adjustment wheels, etc. Of course, I'd rather own a Delta or General, but if I went shopping for another jointer today, I'd buy the same thing. Totally happy whit it. All it needs is a coat of green paint on it!

   2-Table saw. Bought GI 50-185. 50¨ rails. Buried my router table in extension table to save space. I'm very dissapointed by the fact that it's beed a real pain to set up the whole thing (shims to obtain flat extension tables, had to enlarge mounting holes to accept guide rails in order to make it level with the table, instruction manual not too good). But now that it works.... WOW again!  I've forgotten all of my bad ideas when I cut a piece of wood. I was expecting a tool that would go together perfectly and acheive machine shop flatness and squareness with only a screwdriver and 1/2¨ wrench. Maybe I was asking too much. The performance is very satisfying now that the tool is well set up.

   Conclusion: I saved 800$ on the jointer and bought a used 3HP 15¨ thickness planer. I consider mysel as a happy man now! I think whatever tool you choose, you can't really go wrong (assuming you are a hobbyist like me). If I went back shopping for a jointer/TS today: probably a 8¨ King Canada jointer and King Canada cabinet saw (for 400$ more than the GI contractor). 

   Then, use some of the leftover budjeted money to go to a VERY fancy restaurant with my girlfriend.  I bet I would need at least one evening to understand if she bought 2400$ worth of toys like I did! Plus, she is so much more fun to be with than any tool in the world!

   Have fun. Thank you for your helpful replies.

   Fred.