Replies

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 12, 2003 06:19am | #1

   Paul

      I would love to have a Rojek. I don't know a lot about the Luguna TS. I do know that I have en-countered the Luguna people at the Atlanta WW'ing Show twice and both cases were similar to what you described.

      I have never seen the Stop-Saw in action, but think it's a bit too pricey. The Rojek is what I would chose as it has the Euro safety features, it's well made and those guys out in Ark. are really nice and helpful. Best bang for the buck on a Euro type saw. The Felder and others are exteemely well engineered saws, but for that kind of money you should be able to drive it back and forth to work also. ha..ha..

   Good Luck deciding...

   sarge..jt

1. 
   Festool4 | Jan 16, 2007 08:26pm | #7

   I was interested in the Rojek, but they wanted over 500 dollars for shipping. So check shipping rates before you decide.

   Festool4

1. 
   Jimmbo | Jan 17, 2007 06:09pm | #9

   My input on safety would be:

   monitor alingment of the blade and fence.  Trouble occurs when  the back teeth are not centered in the kerf because allingnment is off (not to mention the effect on your product);

   form good habits like always reaching for the push stick for narrowish work, and use the triangular kind that holds down as well as letting you push (I have a plastic one, triangular shape, with a rubber point near the front).  The triangular kind also keeps your hand well above the blade;

   operate the blade only a little higher than the piece - the less that is exposed, the less there is to impact an unsuspecting finger;

   do not stand in the kick back zone, and don't let your kids or anyone else in the shop with you.  Certainly never dip your head down into that zone to look at the blade / cut ... I bought a lathe from a one-eyed old timer who made that mistake and he kept the offending cut-off hanging on his wall as a reminder.  His glass eye was my reminder;

   use a zero clearance insert so that a narrow item cannot fall into that gap and drop unexpectedly (see scar on my thumb learning this lesson);

   never bring the work back through the cut for any reason;

   add an outfeed table so that you never have that struggle to push down on the wood as the cut is finished ... pushing down right over the blade!  Even a smallish outfeed table dramatically improves the leverage and safety.  Mine is attached with heavy duty angle brackets to the legs of the hybrid saw and I shimmed to to level.  Even a small shop can accommodate that small added space, and I put a shopvac under the table to use the space.  I saw an article for a fold down version recently, I think in FWW, but if you have to fold it up, you'll get lazy and "make just one cut" without it;

   never attempt to "rip" a piece that is nearly equal in width and length.  The closer you get to square, the greater the lateral force as the wood is cut, and the greater the chance the wood turns into the blade, gets pulled up on the spinning teeth, and is kicked back (see the dent in my garage door).  Have a cross-cut sled and use it for these cuts;

   on the subject of lateral force and wood pulling into the back of the blade - use a splitter even though it is a pain in the a** to remove for dadoing.  Some day our saws will all have riving knives like the new Powermatic - it just makes too much sense;

   never cross-cut with the fence to close to the blade.  "Too close" is anything less than the length of the cut off when turned corner to corner.  This certainly means not using the fence as a spacer for repeated cut-offs.  If you use a short spacer on the fence as a stop for repeated cuts (like Norm does), make a wider spacer for greater distance between the blade and the fence.  I made mine 3" wide, and integrated a clamp that fits the fence so I can slip it on and off.  When the cut-off turns and gets between the blade and fence if is truly scary the forces that occur, not to mention you can damage the blade / arbor and make the saw less safe for later cuts; 

   make a jig for narrow rips - just a board with a wood protrusion at the rear, so that the work piece rides beside the jig and is pushed by the protrusion.  This gives you room for your hand without getting close to the blade, and has the added benefit of letting you make repeated narrow rips of identical size;  

   Those are my safety thoughts -

2. 
   tryan | Nov 13, 2003 02:54am | #2

   I'm in a similar situation as you. I've got a Unisaw that I'm selling for the same reasons, plus features etc. I opted for a Mini-Max combination machine with an 8.6' slider. I bought their 16" Bandsaw and couldn't be happier. I've had similar experiences with Laguna at shows, I could care less about the quality of the machine if the sales folks look like they don't give a darn. I've had a great experience with the MM sales people and they sell good machines. I believe you can have their entry model sliding table saw < 5000, even better rates if you buy at a show. Their stuff is spendy, but it's heavy duty machinery backed up by first rate service. jmho

   Tom
1. 
   pdeyoung | Nov 20, 2003 04:39am | #3

   Just wanted to loop back and say that my buying experience with Laguna Tools was terrific.  I met with the President's brother, Benjamin, at their warehouse in Irvine, CA and he spent a good hour going through the ins and outs of the Laguna TSS sliding table saw.  He even had a Powermatic set up next to theirs and you could really see the difference.  I thought the PM 66 was solid, but it paled by comparison.  I got to see all their machines as well.  (Next purchase will be one of their heavy duty bandsaws.  If I win the lottery, maybe a Knapp combination machine.)

   He even gave me a slight break on the price, so I decided to pull the trigger.  By the way, while I was there, the president of the company stopped by and was friendly as can be.  He recognized me from the show I went to a few weekends ago.  Must be out of his element at those shows.

1. 
   rockleah | Nov 21, 2003 03:17am | #6

   Glad to hear you had a positive experience with Laguna.  I am in the same position you are, but I don't have the room or money yet for a nice cabinet saw.  I too feel the Laguna would be the nicest of all the tablesaws out there (for under $3000).  I do find it hard to choke down $1200 for the sliding table and another $600 for the scoring unit, but they could always be upgraded later.  I am particularly glad to hear they had a side by side comparison with the Powermatic.  American saws don't get much better than that one (Don't send hate mail, it's what I've been told!), and from the video I got from Laguna their saw seems like a beauty!

   One thing on the SawStop.  I thought I read somewhere that the Stop is only good for one incident, and then it's another $250 for a new cartridege.  If that is so, I fear that alone would make it a hard sell.

3. 
   BenchMarkPhil | Nov 20, 2003 06:10am | #4

   The Euro saws tend to have better safety features, the sliding table is one of the better of these features. Here are a few things to pay close attention to when shopping for a Euro saw:

   1. Arbor type, 30mm or 5/8. Whether it is an arbor or a bolt.

   2. How easy is it to change blades.

   3. Rip fence

   4. Dealer support, before and after the sale

   5. Will it accept a dado or moulding head

   6. OEM accessories

   7. Configuration, can you get it the way you want it.

   8. Sliding table stroke, just make sure you get it big enough

   9. Crosscut fence, can it be removed and installed very very quickly

   PMB

   http://benchmark.20m.com

4. 
   JesseBushman | Nov 20, 2003 07:17pm | #5

   Paul:

   I've e-mailed Saw Stop too and asked them for information on purchasing their equipment for a DeWalt radial arm saw and if they have a unit that would fit a Laguna TS.  No response so far.

   On a side note, I have a buddy who is a mechanical engineer and a patent attorney.  The work he does in his law firm is, for the most part, for one of the larger American woodworking power tool companies.  So he keeps track of tool patents and innovations.  I asked him about Saw Stop and his take was that there is some dispute in the intellectual property world as to whether the technology used by Saw Stop really represents an innovation, or whether it rests on existing patents.  He indicated that the large tool manufacturers of the world (Jet, Powermatic, Delta, Grizzly, etc.) have not jumped on the bandwagon and begun licensing Saw Stop technology because they suspect that they may begin using the technology without having to pay royalties.  That would seem to explain why none of the big manufacturers have snapped this up.  The video the guy has out is certainly impressive and I would be more than happy to shell out a couple hundred bucks extra to be sure that me and anyone else using my tools has the protection afforded by it.  You'd feel awful stupid, in retrospect, if you cut off a finger because you weren't willing to part with that sum of money.  I would hope these guys get their patents straight soon and make this safety device available to all of us as quickly as possible.

   Jesse

5. 
   groucho | Jan 17, 2007 02:10am | #8

   Paul,Purely Safety........

   In my humble opinion... 1) Keep a sharp blade on your saw!!!!!!

   2)Keep a sharp mind and focus on the job,when using your saw.

   3)Read, and Re-read every subject regarding safety using power saws.

   Good luck shopping..........