I will be purchasing a contractor table saw by the end of this month (Jan). My 2 primary outlets are W.A. Redmond or the Wood Working show in Atlanta. Redmond sells Jet, General, Delta and Powermatic. I think that the General and Powermatic are out of my price range. That leaves Delta, Jet, and the show. I do not know what to expect from the show regarding table saws and any specials or sales. Any tips would be helpful. Therefore, I am open to recomendations. I am not partial to a particular manufacturer I guess because ignorance is bliss!! My main reason for this purchace is to allow me to build furniture. Thanks in advance.
dlb
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The undisciplined life is not worth examining.
Replies
I have the General, love it. It's actually priced at or below a lot of the other brands. The fit and finish not to mention the performance is well above the others.
I'd suggest checking out the Wood Working Show. Nothing like seeing/touching/feeling.
I have the GI contractor as well. Really like it. Something I would consider now, if I were to do it all over again, is the hybrids. I don't think they do anything any better except for one critical thing: dust collection.
Whatever you buy, make sure it has a good fence. Without it you'll never be satisfied.
OUt of those choices, I'd vote for the General. I have a friend who bought a new one a few month's ago, and it's a sweet machine with an excellent fence.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Went to the wood working show today and ran into Kelly Mehler who I asked about table saws. His recomendation was the DeWalt 764(?) because it has the motor directly below the blade, has a dust port in a housing which covers the blade from below and has a 1 piece trunnion bracket. I was favoring the General 50-185 until I saw the DeWalt. The problem was that the DeWalt was ~$249 greater than the General! That, to me, is a lot of $$$ so I investigated the General line a little closer. I ended up purchasing a General cabinet saw which General had just come out with. It is basically the 50-1(78)5 but in a cabinet. I got a very good deal. I am thankful for the input of everyone on the forum and do appreciate their time & advice very much.
Thanks,
dlb
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The Undisciplined Life Is Not Worth Examining.
Yep, that DeWalt is a nice saw -- it's a "hybrid saw", looks like a cabinet saw, but in structure is more like a contractor saw. The problem I have with most of the hybrids is that their price is astonishingly close to the price for a true cabinet saw, Grizzly's 1023S. Glad you found a saw you're happy with that also (wow!) fits in your budget.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I would like to hear his reasons for preferring the motor under the blade. It still needs an arbor shaft driven by the motor, usually on the end that's away from the blade. It doesn't matter if the motor is inside or outside of the pulley, it's still driving it the same way and pulling down just as hard. Also, keeping the motor away from the blade seems to make it easier to service the motor and keeps the dust off if the port is on the opposite side of the cabinet, near the bottom, IMO.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I can't speak for dlb's preferences, but many people like the space that's saved by putting the motor inside the enclosure instead of hanging off the back 12". DC is also improved in a fully enclosed cabinet. Then there's theory of more "healing" of the blade when it's tilted at 45d due to the weight of the motor torquing on the rods of a CS....I've haven't noticed any problems with this on my saw, but I can understand the concept.
I can understand the problem of the motor heeling if the assembly is undersized, but I haven't had any issues from this, either. I wasn't thinking about the motor going out the back, mine doesn't but my last saw did. The motor didn't take up a lot of space but I can see where being able to get the saw closer to the wall or wherever it goes is an advantage.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
The reason Kelly gave me was that having the motor in the cabinet; i.e. closer to the blade creates less vibration. I'm sure that there are +'s &'s as you note but I chose to take his advice on this issue. (Besides it says so in his book;))
dlb
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The Undisciplined Life Is Not Worth Examining.
Kelly is awsome. I worked for him briefly when I was at Eastern Kentucky University. I think I might have been in his shop about a month but I learned more than I did in my woodworking classes. He is a realy nice guy.
It's starting to look like a GI romp.....another vote for it here! At $699 it's less than a comparably equipped Jet, PM, or Delta and offers alot of quality and performance. FWW picked it above all the others mentioned, including hybrids, two years straight. (2004 & 2005)
The new Sears 22124 mini cabinet saw might be worth a look, but will be in the same price range as the PM unless you catch a great deal....sometimes they go down near $700. You could check out the 22114 too, but the fence quality tapers off in comparison IMHO.
Grizzly offers good value on their contractor saws if you don't mind mail order.
Speaking of value....I just spotted a post about a Delta 36-675 clearance priced at HD for $399.......! That's worth checking into IMO. Maybe not quite to the level of a PM or GI, but alot of saw for four bills.
Good luck and keep us posted!
Since you brought in the Grizzly, I'll go ahead and post the links. Their G0444 series saw is a spittin' image of the GI saw except for the fence.
Here's the G0444Z. Cast iron wings, 2HP motor and fence with T-slots.
They also make a left-tilt model.
Something new I just noticed: they also make a cast iron router table extension, see the bottom of this page.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 1/24/2005 11:09 am ET by forestgirl
Edited 1/24/2005 11:11 am ET by forestgirl
"kissing cousings" aren't they?! (LOL) The Woodtek and Bridgewood have the same fence as the Griz and also look like they roll out of the same womb.
For anyone considering the Griz 0444 "Z" or LT equivalent (or Woodtek for that matter), it's worth noting that the motor draws 24 amps. It's supposedly very strong, but needs either a 30amp circuit or 220v.
That's interesting that they would have the same fence, since it's a Shop Fox. Did realize SF put the fence on any other company's saw besides theirs and Grizzly. "Kissin' cousins" -- I like that, LOL! I may steal that line, Rus.
As to the 24 amp thing, since it's a 2HP motor, that doesn't really surprise me. My 1.5HP Jet motor says 18 amps on the motor plate. I've always figured if I upgraded to anything bigger, I'd have to go 220 to avoid aggravation.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Regarding the fence - I think the fence is actually a foreign made "off the shelf" steel Biese knock off with aluminum faces on a steel body offered under a couple of different names....it's not the SF Classic, but the SF Alumarip Classic. Most others just called the "Aligna Rip", not to be confused with Craftsman all aluminum dual locking version. HF had one as an aftermarket fence, and I think it also came on their cabinet saw. Canwood and King Canada also offer a version. As far as these aging eyes and braincells can discern, it's the same fence. Griz's label is a bit different, but structurally....same, same.
Edited 1/24/2005 12:30 pm ET by sliversRus
The Guy (His real name!) at the Tool Place (The Store's real name!) Told me that the Beis and the General T square are exactly the same fence. In fact, he said that General made the Beis in the beginning for Bill Beisemeyer, I've used both, And there was no difference. But I got a unifence on my new saw, and if for nothing else, I like how you can use the fence as a stop for crosscutting.
The Delta rep at a show told me the same thing about the Biese and the General "Biese", and I'd heard it several times before.....I'm starting to believe it! Same design plans, different factories ....the Biese is now built in the states, and the General still in Canada.
One other alternative might be to check out Redmond's used and recon equipment, you may may be able to get more for your $$. What kind of budget?
As little as possible but between 700 & 800.
From reading the other posts I may have to upgrade the power to the shop. I curently have 4 120 volt outlets available.The undisciplined life is not worth examining.
I have a Powermatic 66 and wouldn't trade it for anything else. I will give you one bit of advise. Buy a Delta. Buy it local. You can ALWAYS get parts for a Delta. Also, take a look at the new Sears, sorry Craftswman, saws. They are very impressive. they really improved their product.
Thanks for the advice. I would love to have a Powermatic. I will take another look at them.
dlb
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The undisciplined life is not worth examining.
powermatic makes a very nice saw. But, you know, either a delta,jet, new craftsman will all do the job equally as well. goodluck
I used a contractor saw for years, and built a lot of furniture. With care (which takes a lot of time) you can get cuts just as good as any saw, with very tight tolerances (I could count on 1/64 or 1/128 inch on my Ridgid 3612). But as I built more furniture for profit, I found I was spending 20 minutes on each cut from a large sheet of plywood (such as sides of a bookcase).
I recently replaced the contractor saw with an European slider, and built most of three bookcases yesterday afternoon. Even more precise, and probably 5-10 times as fast as with the contractor saw.
A few years ago I spent a year building all the cabinets for a kitchen. I would expect to do that in days with the new equipment.
If you are going to enjoy building a couple pieces a year, as a hobby, get a contractor saw. Just like planting a garden with a shovel. But if you have a lot of furniture plans, get a cabinet saw or larger, just as you would want a plow for a large garden.
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