Does anyone have any hands-on experience or heard “the good, the bad and the ugly” about the General 350 table saw and/or the Delta Unisaw?
I’m going to be purchasing a new saw in the very near future and I want to make sure I make the right decision.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Michael
Replies
Hard to go wrong with eigther. I think the General might be a little more solidly built. Highly regarded by those with day in / day out use. I'd love to have either.
The General 650 is my dream saw, and was rated #1 in Wood Mag's cab saw shootout. That's the left tilt version of the 350....a friend of mine has one and loves it. Built like a tank, performs flawlessly, and the wings come preassembled from the factory. These are forged and built in Canada by the family owned business, and include an American made Baldor motor. The trunnions are heftier than those found on a Uni. My experiences with General and their CS have been excellent.
Although both are good saws, IMO the General is the more substantial machine. The Uni sources it's cast iron from China now, and it comes with a Brazilian motor, and with the recent purchase of Pentair by B&D I'm not sure what CS/parts is going to be like .
I have the Unisaw, It will be the last saw I will ever buy. I envy no other saw. Had I found a PM 66 for the same price I would have bought that. But for a small production shop it dosen't matter. Heck, I don't think that it matters for a large shop either. I seriously doubt you will ever need a replacement parts for machines of this quality, but if you did the Unisaw parts are very easy to get.
Mike
I am interested in your experience with the Unisaw. I used one that was ~30 years old in a shop for years and liked it very much. I am a little concerned about the quality of the recently produced Unisaws, and have been leaning towards a General becuase of the quality issue. Any thoughts about how well a 2005 Unisaw (left tilt) stacks up against a General- or a Powermatic 66 (another saw that may be resting on its laurels...?)Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Mine was made in 95 or 98. I really don't know what that means other than I believe it really was made in the US. Personally I don't care where the machine is made as long as it is well made, and there is great stuff coming out of Asia. I did have an issue with the arbor flange being out of true but was able to fix it. I have the Unifence and believe it is a better system than the Beis for small to medium sized shops (less than 3 or 4 employees).
Mikeplease excuse my spelling.
I tend to agree with you on both counts (country of origin and fence). What I am concerned about is not so much where something is made (Toyotas are made in Tennesee and Delta saws in Taiwan), but rather whether a company has changed their production methods/location to make a price point on a product. When I see the cheapening of some of the components used (motors, switches being the most obvious) it makes me uneasy. So I would buy a saw made in Asia, but I'd feel better if there was a track record to go by. Sort of like not buying software versions thar end in .0 (eg 1.0 or 2.0)Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Having worked with sliding panel saws for many years I would not even consider getting a cabinet saw with the reasonably priced sliders out there. It's a sheet goods world. Rojek, Kufo, Minimax are but a few. By the time you add on a slider like an Excaliber you haven't really saved any money and you still get a cobbled makeshift sliding saw.
It very well may be a sheet goods world, but a good cabinet saw is the top choice for solid lumber. A panel saws advantages diminish quickly when you need to rip, rip, and rip some more. If you crosscut on the TS then a slider is right up your alley, but with solid lumber and a having a good SCMS its just taking up space.
With that said I'd love to have one, but the PM 66 with the excalibur is just fine..
A good euro slider is better for ripping solid lumber than a non-slider. Drop the lumber on the carrige and push. You don't even need the fence. Great for ripping an edge on rough saw. After the first cut set the fence and rip to width. Worked with a slider years ago, wish I had the shop space for one. I'm currently running three Unisaws and a PM66 ( rarely ). One Unisaw has an Exactor table, fine for my work but not even close to a REAL slider.DJK
why rare use of the PM66? Good point about straight-lining lumber on a slider.
Over the years I've owned over a dozen Unisaws and a PM 65. I purchased a PM 66 at auction because I thought it would be cool to give to my daughter when she takes middle school wood shop. You know, bragging rites. Well she's not ready for it so I decided to use it. It's much beefier than the PM 65 that I only use when a left tilt is needed. Just don't like the feel of the PM 66, used to a Unisaw. When that big slab of lumber is being ripped both saws feel the same. It's the fine cut off work that feels weird.Now my daughter wants the PM 66 painted pink.DJK
A lot has to do with what one is accustomed to. I also had access to a PM and avoided it. I said I'd buy one if I had a chance to redo, but only because of some kind of Americanism. I've only used Unisaws and it just seems to be made the way a saw ought to be made. The General is nice also. I don't know what to say about the pink. I think she'll outgrow that idea, hopefully.
Now my daughter wants the PM 66 painted pink.
LOL. Mine would want it black, with orange flames.
She's 14, and has already said what she wants as here first car: and old F-150, with that paint scheme.
With my SCMI 4' slider I can easily rip solid wood all day or cross cut a 48" solid table top. With the integral slider I can put the saw on a mobile base as well. I have no need for a radial arm or scms so it actually saves a lot of space, plus i have scoring blade for the occasional melamine if needed. It takes a dado blade so it's really the best of all worlds for my purposes, not to mention at 7-1/2 hp nothing bogs it down and it cost me less than my PM 66. Auctions are great places at times. I know a lot of folks with Exactors and Excalibers. Nice units but you have to be careful with them and you can't move the saw around.
After 30 years in the business I have tried a lot of different saws out there and consider the cabinet saw a dinosaur in technology and pretty limited in use in a shop. Just my opinion.
Rick,
so what does a hobbyist do for about $1000 Aust?
Off the shelf are two chinese saws, one a cabinat saw with reasonably wide cast table (some alignment problems with a few of them but others look pretty good) and the other a sort of slider. This seems to have contractor-style legs, the sliding part is the full depth of the table and about a foot wide. However, it is set to the side of what looks to be a standard small table - sufficient for a mitre slot or about 10". This is a lot different from the old and large new machines I have seen with the slider right at the edge of the insert.
Are there slider options available that work like the industrial machines? The problem is not only $, you can go for a 2nd hand machine at auction. There is also 3phase power and the footprint in a hobby shop.
David
I realize there is a wide range of levels of skil and income, pro verus hobby here and my thoughts on the panel saw are more pro or advanced hobby worker. For $1,000 a Grizzly and an Excaliber slider, OK so it comes up to be a few hundred more and takes more space. There's always the Dewalt Slider and that's around $1400 and shipping. Making a decent support table from wood and having a decent sized sliding table is affordable but takes up space. There's always some compromise involved.Three phase is no big deal with a converter as used iron is sometimes a fraction of new industrial machines while the small 10" unisaws can easily cost 2/3 the price of new. So many are intimidated by single phase but learning about phase converters opens up a whole new world of options. The boat or sled is a viable option. The pic is of a different design than you typially see. I've made them with 1/4" aluminum plate to allow the blade to cut thicker stock and be lighter than MDF.If you get to see the real sliders you will see there is an extruded aluminum section that slides along close to the blade. Besides the Exactor and Excaliber there is a Laguna slider that can be adapted plus there was an article on adapting the Dewalt hybris slider a few years back in FWW. Accuride makes 48" and 60" drawers slides that could be fashioned into a slider. http://www.8020.net is a neat source of ideas with an industrial erector set. Not cheap but well worth the money. There hae been numerous articles in the mags on improvising sliders over the years.I don't consider the cabinet saw to be truly up to the needs of furniture making. Once you used a slider it's hard to go back. Plus I've been woodworking in profesional shops for 30 years so my experience and needs are going to be different than someone starting out. One of the greatest innovations to the cabinet saw was the Biesemeyer fence. Believe it or not the European saws were way ahead on this and had a decent fence already included with their saws and there are few sliders of American origin. Sure Northfield and a few others had something but it wasn't quite as sophisticated as the European saws who geared it toward sheet goods and you can square up a solid table top as well so their saws aren't just for plywood.
We have 3 General 350's two of them about 20 years old.we have only ever had to replace belts and very occasionally bearings in that time .Great saws heavy ,reliable very basic design that works.They are not pampered at all and worked daily,one even taken on site to large jobs.Not a job for weaklings they are a PIA to lift
I work on a Unisaw that's easily 30-40 years old, as well as two newer ones, one a left-tilt, and the newer one (about 5 years old) has had to overhauled (the clamping knob for tilt stripped out). The bearing on the older one was replaced. I have a 7 year old Unisaw and from the factory the switch malfunctioned, it would turn the saw on because the plastic sleeve didn't slide and would on its' own fall into the "on" position. It was out of warranty but the dealer said he'd fix it, but never did so I took it apart and fixed it myself. I looked at the General but decided against it because I've had enough problems with unavailable parts/service with foreign products. (I once had a Subaru).
If I were to buy a saw today I would buy a Powermatic.
I looked at the General but decided against it because I've had enough problems with unavailable parts/service with foreign products. (I once had a Subaru).
LOL!! I once had a Subaru; the hand brake broke and it took the dealer 3 months to get the needed part in stock. 'never again with that brand.
I have a 5 HP right-tilt Unisaw that I bought in 2001. It's the "old" design that doesn't look like today's "X" style, so I think everything was still Made in USA. It was perfectly aligned right out of the box, and has been a great machine.
"I looked at the General but decided against it because I've had enough problems with unavailable parts/service with foreign products. (I once had a Subaru). "
The only parts I've ever needed from General were shipped directly to me in 3 or 4 days. Parts availability is not a problem I've read about with General....also, with the 350 or 650 the need for parts is not a common occurence.
I have an oldie but a goodie 1958 Delta Unisaw that I stole from a shop going out of business about 20 years ago for $200.00 I find it to be a very good saw. Solid and accurate. I would like to have a 3 hp on it , but it works well for me . I am concerned with all of the recent changes Pentair, Black& Decker and who knows what the next owner has in mind what the future holds for that once great company. If I had the space I would add a nice Altendorf panel to my shop.
[email protected]
T.O.
Okay, you have forced me to comment. I have an early model Unisaw that is 60 years old. Its all solid cast iron and I have changed the motor (12 years ago) and the bearings (15 years ago). Its a bit better machine than the newer ones I have used and I will probably retire with it. I bought it as you did from a construction company going out of biz 26 years ago. I also own a Streibig Compact panel (awesome machine) and am scheming on an Altendorf 45. My Unisaw will still be a primary machine fo any hardwood cutting and precise small parts making. They are like your children and all hold a special place that is hard to usurp. I still love my Unisaw serial number 3450.
> I still love my Unisaw serial number 3450.
http://www.owwm.com may be able to get you a more accurate date for your saw from that serial number. My serial is M-529, which they narrowed down to 1939 - 1941, and likely towards the early part of that range.
-- J.S.
John, I checked my Unisaw and I had given the model number not the serial. I have serial #A1470 which I think is pretty old. The website for old woodworking machinery is down or I would go check it out. I have owned the saw for 26 years and it has been a mainstay for me mostly out of familiarity rather than being the best I have. I guess I just like it. Thanks for the link, I will continue to check it for info. Aloha, Mike
Edited 5/2/2005 1:21 am ET by mike
I'm using a Unisaw that my grandfather bought before WWII. The original 1 HP universal motor gave up after 62 years, so I put a new Baldor 2 HP on it, and a new switch. The fence and miter gauge were still usable, but I got a Biesemeyer and an Incra, just because they were nicer.
Have a look at:
http://www.owwm.com/
There are guys there whose hobby is fixing up old woodworking machines. Sometimes there'll be a completely restored old saw for sale.
-- J.S.
The Delta seems pricey and with questionable quality while the general seems very nice but a little on the high side of the price scale. What about the Grizzly machines which seem to get some good press and come in around $1100 for the 10 inch saws? I know they are made overseas but is a Delta overseas product worth the extra few hundred dollars?
Tom
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