I have, over the past year or so, begun to develop a keen interest in wood working. I built my first deck this past summer, and have been building things (e.g. storage shelves, etc) ever since. I would like to get serious with this hobby and have begun researching the purchase of a table saw. In my research, I have noted that serious word workers use a cabinet saw.
I would appreciate any thoughts or recommendations anyone may have on my initial big first purchase.
Thanks
Edited 2/3/2004 11:23:40 AM ET by FAR52
Replies
There are many wwer's who have cabinet saws, but I think most wwer's use a contractor saw because they're typically less expensive yet still handle the vast majority of our needs. A cab saw is something many of us would love to have, but it's certainly not an essential for doing good work.
There are significant design differences between the two types of saws, some of which enhance performance, some of which are merely convenient or pleasant to have. Cab saws weigh 400-600# meaning very low vibrations. Most cab saws have a std motor of 3-5HP vs 1-1/2 to 2hp for contractor saws (CS). The belt drive systems are different also. Cab saws typically utilize 2-3 shorter belts and have the motor mounted inside the cabinet. CS use one belt and have the motor hanging out the back end. The multiuple belts not only transfer power more efficiently, but tend to have less vibration due to their length. Cab saws have massive trunnions that are mounted to the cabinet vs smaller trunnions that mount to the table top of a CS. The advantage for the cab saw is that they're easier to align and tend to hold alignment better. The more massive trunnions tend to have less vibration and hold up better to severe use.
Cab saws are usually equipped with a top notch fence. Most are a t-fence design made of heavy steel gauge rails and tube. Some of the better CS saws sport the same fences, but many offer a more modest fence made from lighter weight aluminum. Precision, repeatability, and robustness are important factors in any fence, and the fences on cab saws tend to achieve this more consistently. Most cab saws have solid cast iron wings. It's available on many CS, but many are equipped with steel wings.
CS can operate on 110v, and some are convertable to 220v. A 3hp cab saw will require 220v.
Excellent work can be done on either. The cab saws can handle thick stock with ease, but a CS will do just about everything a cab saw will if you're not quite prepared to go with the big saw.
If your long-range budget is pretty flexible, by all means go for the cabinet saw. It sounds like you've done enough work to know that woodworking isn't going to be "just a phase" for you. I'd venture to guess that most of us opt for the contractor saw for one or both of the following reasons: budget, space. A good contractor saw costs an inordinate amount of money, IMO, and I suspect most of us contractor saw owners would gladly trade up if possible. So, as long as it doesn't take money away from other essential tool purchases, I'd vote for getting the cabinet saw right at the beginning.
forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
scotty makes some excellent points.My advice-always buy the best tool you can afford.Especially when it comes to the heart of any cabinet shop, the tablesaw.
For what its worth, I'm a hobbyist t and I just went through essentially the same process trying to decide on which saw to purchase. I had a 30+year old craftsman contractor saw that needed replacing and was initially in the market for another contractor saw but by the time I got close to the quality/capability that I wanted I was already somewhere north of $850 and closer to $1k for what I really liked. I found a new 3hp Unisaw for $1299 locally. Shop was already wired for 220. Figuring this would be the last saw that I would have to buy, I got impulsive when the store told me they only had one left - blew the year's tool budget and dragged it home. (The shaper will have to wait :-().
Been very happy with the choice in the two weeks since I made it, now if only it would warm up so I could use it!
I started woodworking over 20 years ago and was fortunate enough to use workhorse cabinet saws like Powermatic and Rockwell in shops not of my own. I think that was pretty much the standard for small professionals and hobbiests then. When I bought my own saw 10 years ago, I had neither the money nor the quality shop space, and didn't want to deal with upgrading to 240v, so I ordered an inexpensive Grizzly contractor saw. That saw was a mess but for $350 bucks, I wasn't complaining. The blade was off-parallel to the miter slot by 1/16" and I had to disassemble the trunnion unit and file the bolt holes to align the blade. After eight years of hard use, the tabletop begin to warp. It was so bad that I couldn't slide the miter gauge all the way through. I think at the time Grizzly's quality control was lacking but I'm hearing pretty good responses from owners today. Anyway, I think contractor saw is perfectly fine for most hobby woodworkers and some pros. It'll be difficult to rip 8/4 hardwood like maple without stopping the motor or tripping a breaker though. You'll also have more noticeable vibration on the contractor saw than a fine-tuned cabinet saw. Dust collection is kind of a problem too. Of course some of the benefits of a contractor saw are, affordability, weight and uses standard 120v. But beware, you'll be itching to up grade to a cabinet saw once you start to get real good. You might also want to check out the Jet's 2hp Supersaw or the Dewalt. I think it's a good compromise between contractor and cabinet.
Before I moved to the Pacific Northwest, I gave that Grizzly and most of my Delta stuff to a friend who was starting out in woodworking. I was planning to purchase a General 350 but after months of research I got a Mini Max sliding table saw instead. It has 4.8 hp, single phase, 12" blade, scoring unit and a large outrigger, perfect for cutting sheet goods. This saw weighs 950 lbs. and is considered "small, hobby saw" in Europe. Good luck with your search and let us know what you purchase.
I was at the same point a year ago - after doing my research and considering money, space, portability - I went with the DeWalt hybrid for about $900. Smaller than a cabinet, more portable, good dust collection, solid fence - don't think I'll ever regret it.
Good luck.
This thread is the best set of arguments for table saw vs. contractor saw I have seen.
I fall into the semi-pro ranks - I still have a day job, but I do enough that I have to pay income taxes on my woodworking.
I have the Ridgid 3612 contractor saw; it and the replacement 3650 cost under $600. I have been extremely pleased with the lack of vibration, ease of alignment, rare need for realignment, and quality of the fence (routinely expect cuts less than 1/64 inch off). I can't remember the saw stalling, even though I have slowed down in thick hardwood, slower than a production shop would want....
But dust collection stinks on contractor saws, and I find that it is VERY hard to store the saw in my garage workshop. Most garages have about 2 feet available at the edge, but the place the motor sticks out is between 3 and 4 feet. So between projects, in those rare times when both cars are in the garage, there is only one inconvenient corner where that saw can go. So for me, the biggest advantages of a cabinet saw are dust collection, long term durability, and storability. Not enough to get rid of my contractor saw....yet.
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Charlie Plesums Austin, Texas
http://www.plesums.com/wood
If I were considering my first purchase, and had enough for a cabinet saw, I would buy a cyclone dust collector first and then a contractor saw if I didn't have enough left for the cabinet saw. The DC should be the first and is by far the most important tool you will buy.
TDF
I got a PM66. It is the last saw I will ever buy. It will be handed down to my son. It is a great saw.
Everyone who responds will assure you that their decision was best.
I started out with a table top and moved to a Delta contractors saw and wound up with a Grizzly 12 inch cabinate..
If I were to only buy one I would pick a Band saw!
Just about anything you can do on a table saw you can do with a band saw. But without a band saw you won't be able to do much of what makes fine wood working fine!
Buy a band saw and a jointer.
The only thing that a table saw does well is rip! cross cuts or angle cuts need the crutch of jigs to work and if your skill at making jigs is lacking so will the cuts be lacking.. Oh sure you can buy well made sleds ands such but!!! by the time you do that you are well on your way to what the proper tools will cost anyway..
Cutting real long piece on a table saw is an excercise in frustration. If they are rips and you stand near the table, too much will hang out the back of of the front unless you get a helper. (not always easy and sometimes impossible) or you could build infeed and outfeed tables. but then you need at least as much room in back as you have in front (and we don't all have 20' plus long shop spaces {or 32 feet if you are trying to cut a sixteen foot long piece}
but with a skill saw and a straight edge it is possible to make a nice cut on whatever length you need to..
Just about any saw cut should be run over a jointer. So you may as well accept the fact that you need a jointer
with those two and a skil saw you will be able to do great work.
Frenchy, euro saws will solve all the problems you've mentioned. And if economy is what you're after, a bow saw and a jointer plane will work well. Inexpensive and will fit in tool box.
questions, questions, questions
for your first stationary tool purchase get a dust collector, then you can look at other stationary tools.
I'm with Frenchy re the usefulness of a bandsaw.
If I were starting out and money and space were not big considerations then I'd get at least 3 saws
a 18 or 20 in bandsaw,
a 10 or 12 in sliding compound mitre saw and
a Euro style table saw with the sliding table and overhead guard.
However, if like most money and space are considerations, then for saws I'd get two
a quality 10 or 12 in sliding compound mitre saw with two blades, 40 or so teeth for rough cutting and a 60 – 80 tooth fine cutting
a quality power hand saw and selection of blades (rip, combo, cross cut) and a selection of aluminium extrustions to use as straight edges. A Festool plunge cut saw with a selection of guide rails (the longest rail is about 16 feet) and work tables would be very nice but the setup is pretty pricey.
I'd team these with a Festo or Fein shop vac. With a 2in hose these will absorb the output of an 8in jointer or a 12in thicknesser — you just have to empty the bin frequently. But on a budget these are the compromises you make.
I'd also save till I could afford a shop big enough to accomodate a dust collector, two band saws (14in for curves and 18in for resawing) and a Euro style sliding table saw.
Ian
dream, dream, dream
Ian and Frenchy,
You guys have good ideas, but I think a little unrealistic. Most of us accumulate our shops over many years, and we don't have the money to buy all those tools at once. A table saw will rip and crosscut for about $1000. The jigs you have to build will improve your woodworking skills.
A good bandsaw 18 to 20 inch range is what, $3000? Then you need to be able to crosscut, so figure $500 for a SCMS. $3500 to do what a $1000 tool will do? Yup, bandsaws are great, and your points are valid, but where is the economic threshold? Ditto on the dust collecter, you won't ever regret getting one, but, $1500 will buy a lot of really good dust masks. Steve
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