Replies

1. 
   user-148830 | Feb 07, 2007 08:46pm | #1

   Greetings,
   To have maximum strength, you need resistance to three forces: compression, tension, and racking. You could load a truck on top of this table given its dimensions so compression is no worry. If you take your legs through the top with a wedged tenon it would provide good resistance to whatever tension might occur when the table is lifted. A concern but not difficult to deal with.

   Racking however is a force that is not dealt with just by attaching legs to a top. To provide the best racking resistance you need to triangulate your connections as much as possible. The best way to do this is to add rails with tenons and shoulders on the tenons. This may not suit your design, but it has proven to be the strongest method for attaching four legs to a top.

   Now you could design in the trestle style and use two legs each connected to each other by short rails. Then these trestles would be connected with long rails and wedged tenons to prevent racking. This works wonderfully well as my workbenches show. Then you attach your table top through the trestle top allowing for wood movement.

   But for the best strength you must build in resistance to racking and rails of some sort are the best way. Good luck. Gary

1. 
   furniture | Feb 08, 2007 11:22pm | #2

   gary,

    

   thanks for your reply. I agree about the use with rails, but these clients have choosen for just legs without the conneting rails. I've mentioned of course the disadvantages, but nevertheless they take the chances. so my question remains: in which way I can attache the legs to the top without showing it on top.  this rejects the use of wedges as you suggested. another con is that the legs have to be at the far end of the table, so at each corner. hope you can come up with something. kind regards.

1. 
   JohnWW | Feb 08, 2007 11:44pm | #3

   My two cents on this, and with apologies to Gary:

   What the buyer wants cannot be achieved with real wood, they have eliminated every possible way to make the table structurally sound, there is nothing left to work with.  They might just as well have requested that you make the table with no legs at all and that the top would just float 32 inches off the floor.

   If they insist on the style, have it welded up out of steel and then veneer over the metal.  There is a reason why you have probably never seen a full sized solid wood table done in this style, it can't be done.

   Just out of curiosity, is the client an architect?

   John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine

1. 
   furniture | Feb 09, 2007 12:32am | #4

   hello,

    

   it might sounds odd to you but these kind of tables are quitte common in my area, so there will be a way of overcome this problem. nevertheless I can see your point.

1. 
   JohnWW | Feb 09, 2007 01:17am | #5

   Full size tables are being built this way, not just small Parson's style end tables?  I would love to know how they are built and how well they hold up after a few years of use. 

   I can't picture any way of attaching a 9 cm square leg to the outermost corner of a table top that wouldn't be very vulnerable to damage from even a moderate blow to the lower end of the legs.  I would also suspect that the tables would be at least a bit flexible.

   Is there a web site that would have some samples of this style?

   John W.

2. 
   user-148830 | Feb 09, 2007 01:28am | #6

   Get new clients is my advice. You are far better off with clients who respect your expertise than ones whose design will inevitably fail. I read John’s comment and I had to laugh about the architect part. I have found that group to be generally trainable with regard to wood movement and stresses. But I did chuckle. Good one John. Bolt the legs on. You give me no choices. Legs at the corner, no struts, no rails? Use a captured nut or threaded insert inside the table top like it was a bed frame and run a bolt through the legs.
   Cover the bolt holes with a plug. Try to use two bolts per leg. Do not use my name or that of Fine Woodworking’s when it comes to this pathetic solution. These folks are asking for trouble. The fact that you see many of these tables in your neck of the woods is only testament to the fact that you can sell anybody anything. Hell you might as well biscuit the dang legs on and expect it to hold. I repeat my first advice: get new clients. All the best to you.
   Gary

1. 
   JohnWW | Feb 09, 2007 06:26pm | #7

   Gary,

   You must deal with a better class of architects than the ones I've worked with.

   John W.

2. 
   spazapple | Feb 10, 2007 07:43pm | #8

   FurnitureThis is a bizarre scenario...although, on second thought, not so odd since our customers aren't trained to think in the ways we are about durability, sound construction, etc. I am a crusty New England carpenter trained in preservation, and believe me I get requests to do things that are both unwise and impractical. One thought: English oak furniture of the 17th C and earlier often had m&t stretchers that joined four legs an inch or two above the floor. What about that? Not sure what to make of your comment about 'many tables built this way in my area.' Perhaps you and your customers have seen tables built, as John White suggests, in materials other than wood...notably, panel products. Who hasn't seen tables and cases of this sort blown out by exploded joints lying mutely by the curb on trash day? That cancer metasatizes daily. What a waste. If you want to help these clients, steer them to another craftsman. They seem to want a concept, not a piece of furniture built according to historically validated craftsmanship. And such work doesn't have to 'look' traditional. You will se very creative examples in The Gallery. Or perhaps they would be amenable to concrete...sorry, couldn't resist.In short, please realize: you are getting good advice from two of the most respected and experienced craftsmen on God's green earth. Heed it!

3. 
   furniture | Feb 20, 2007 09:31pm | #9

   thanks for your time and advice. the advice is clear. in the meantime I've discovered some hardware specific for these kind of tables. so next month I'll have a try. the customers are aware of the risks, but take the chance. If you're (and John w and Matt berger ) are interested in these hardware I could send you a photo of the finshed table so that you can see for yourself. hope to see some fine furnituere from you in the future. kind regards.