Recently I have noticed that my tablesaw burns everytime I rip anything. From pine to hard maple to red oak everything comes out burnt. I have checked that my fence is square to the blade, I have tried adjusting my feed rate, and that doesn’t seem to help. I have a powermatic 64A with Accufence and a Freud 50 tooth combination blade. Any suggestions for how to fix this problem?
Thanks,
Scott
Replies
Scott,
FWIW that sounds like pitch build up on the blade, particularly if you've been cutting pine, cherry or sugar maple. Try cleaning the blade and see if that helps. Some folks use oven cleaner, some use a liquid sold by Woodcraft, can't think of the name this second. Let us know if that helps.
Kell
Personally I'd avoid caustic cleaners on health grounds - yours! (Caustic compounds can also attack the carbide in the teeth, I'm told - see post 15151.8 for further details) There are a number of other pitch removers out there (sorry, I'm not in the USA so I can't advise on brands) but if you want to be environmentally conscious try to find an aqueous solution.
One other question - how long is it since you sharpened the blade?
Scrit
Edited 12/9/2003 12:30:52 PM ET by Scrit
Edited 12/9/2003 12:31:31 PM ET by Scrit
Edited 12/9/2003 12:32:56 PM ET by Scrit
Scott, yep, first of all clean the blade. See blade cleaning discussion in this section, advise not to use oven cleaner. I use Simple Green, some use 409, kerosene works great.
Other things that can cause burning are the splitter being misaligned, pushing the wood against one side of the blade, blade not 90* to table (tilted toward fence a smidge). Also how thick is the stock you're ripping? A 50-tooth combo blade is OK for, ohhhhh maybe 1.5" or so. If you're ripping anything over 2" I'd guess it's out of its element -- too many teeth in the stock and not enough gullet-room to help sawdust clear out quickly. The Diablo 24-tooth rip blade isn't all that expensive and it'll rip that thick stuff quite nicely.
forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG did you catch the latest on Simple Green...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Yes, I did. The caveat was about soaking for extended periods of time. I've never had to leave it on the blade for more than 5 minutes, so no worries here. It appeared that the Simple Green author had been under the impression we were leaving the blades in the SG for hours and hours and hours.
I find that I clean my blades much more frequently since I switched away from lye (oven cleaner) or kerosene, both inconvenient, and they take very little effort to clean.forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
What is the latest on Simple Green?
Start here http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=15151.1 You'll catch it.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Just that you shouldn't leave the blade soaking for long periods of time. Company recommends 15 mins. max. Mine never take more than 5 to get clean.forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
My fence is a knats eyebrow further away at the back of the blade then at the front of the blade, seems to help, so does a clean blade. The oarnge stuff from CMT is what I use to clean bits and blades. Message was to Scott, sorry.
Edited 12/10/2003 2:53:28 AM ET by woodnthoughts
You might like to know that the panel saw people refer to this as freeboard - it's an essential part of setting up any panel saw that yoyu have it (for safety's sake)
Scrit
Scrit,
I have to disagree with you there. I grew up with the same idea, but have since found out that things work better all around on a table saw if the fence is dead parallel with the blade, especially the long fences on American table saws. Any freeboard or draft just tends to pull the material away from the fence on long cuts, and makes accurate work more difficult.
For ripping solid wood, I like the short fences on European saws, and American industrial rip saws. They, along with a good riving knife or splitter, let the wood do whatever it wants to do after it is cut, without pushing the material out of line.
For cutting sheet stock on a table saw, I still prefer the long fence, because it gives a greater bearing area to keep the stock aligned.
Of course, the worst thing you can do is to have the fence pinch the stock. That is decidedly unhealthy.
Michael R
I suppose it depends on how much you have. On the Altendorf (my regular saw) the amount recommended is so miniscule (a matter of thous.) that it is almost impossible to measure and is not set buy conventional measurement (you actually listen for it). This firm is one of the world's better panel saw makers and have been at it for some 50 years (well, they invented the slider saw), so I think I'll stick with their set-up advice, although I do have to say that in panel ripping against the rip fence it is sometimes necessary to guide the piece with a slight diagonal bias towards the fence to achieve the desired degree of accuracy.
Your other comments about Euro-style short rip fences I can only heartily agree with having been taught up on such machinery in the UK.
Scrit
Scrit
You said that you set your by ear, this intrigues me, can you give me more info on your method?
Scott T.
's OK, easy mistake. As far as the gnat's eyebrow goes, I tried that for awhile but went back to dead parallel. I occasionally switch my fence to the other side of the blade, and can't do that with that eyebrow factor. That adjustment also won't compensate for a misaligned splitter, especially if the splitter isn't 90* to the table.
forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 12/10/2003 12:40:03 PM ET by forestgirl
Jamie -
The first WW show I attended, the year before the one we went to, I watched the guy in the Forrest display rip cherry at least 2 1/2" thick on a bench table saw ripping like 1/16" veneers off the piece. His advice was to set the fence a thou or two away from the blade to avoid burning and saw marks on the exit side.
Like you, I tried that for a short while but found when ripping stock from 6 or 8/4 planks I ended up with a wedge at the end of the milling process! (grin). So went back to the parallel setup.
As for the burning problem, it would seem that this is a recent phenomenon for the original question submitter so, like everyone else, I would suspect (1) dirty blade and (2) dull blade with the emphasis on the former.
I've been ripping some cherry for millwork and trim (6/4) and find that feed rate is crucial with that stuff. It takes a pretty beefy saw to shove that kind of plank through at any great rate but the faster I can get it through the saw without overworking the machine, the cleaner the cut.
I think I need to take your advice on the tooth issue though. The ash I'm milling for the kitchen cabinets has tripped the overload on my Unisaw twice so far.
...........
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Hiya Dennis. I've not worked with cherry yet, but I understand it burns very easily. As far as ripping that ash goes, grab the Freud Diablo 24-tooth blade off the shelf -- it's not very expensive and works quite well, leaves my old Jet saw smiling smugly. It'd probably help with the cherry feed rate also.
I haven't seen the top of my tablesaw in weeks -- piled up with ornament stuff, been using the bandsaw to rip stock. Soon, though, soon (she said).forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
>>If you're ripping anything over 2" I'd guess it's out of its element -- too many teeth in the stock and not enough gullet-room to help sawdust clear out quickly.
Right. The general rule of thumb for ripping is that you want about three teeth in the cut at all times. Fewer, and you overload the teeth. More, and you just slow down the cut.
Flat top or triple chip grind works best. Flat top is smooth and fast in straight grain, while triple chip seems to work better in knotty or wild grain.
Michael R
Try cleaning first but could be the blade might need to be sharpened. Is it an LU84M blade? For a combo blade they rip pretty well but for me they seemed to dull much faster ripping than cross cutting the same amount of wood. If you have a lot of ripping to do it might be time to invest in a dedicated rip blade.
Hows the fence alignment?
Darkworksite4:
Estamos ganando detrás el estado de Calif. Derrotando a un #### a la vez. DESEA VIVO LA REVOLUCIÓN
Scott said: "I have checked that my fence is square to the blade...." (I think we can safely assume he meant parallel.)forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks everyone, I will try to clean the blade tonight and see if that solves the problem. I will also check the splitter alignment. That has always been a pain to get right after removing it. I have some bit and blade cleaner from T-9 the Boeshield people does anyone have any experience with that product?
Thanks,
Scott
I agree with Forestgirl, too many teeth on that blade for ripping
John
Turn the blade around
Scott, how's it going? Wanted to point out a detail on the splitter -- it can be perfectly in line with the blade and not be 90* to the table (which means it's in line with the blade at the table surface, but not at the top of the arc). That particular problem, and lack of removeability, is what drove me to buying an aftermarket splitter.
forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
In addition to a clean blade and proper fence alignment, check the alignment of the blade to the miter slots first. All of your set ups ( miter bars, sleds, etc.) will be effected by an out of line trunion. Ripping and cutting operations fall under so many different categories that there may not be one solution to your problem. A perfect (+-) rip requires a perfect edge against the fence. If you are only ripping a sixteenth off, one side of the blade is unsupported and may run. If you are ripping down the center of an eight inch board the kerf may close up and pinch the blade. Sometimes it will open up and pull. Using a ten inch blade on 3/4" stock allows plenty of room for blade wobble so stabilizers can help. Thick stock can cause extra friction and heat. Some boards and species are just plain ornery. Over tightening of the arbor nut can distort a blade. The height of the blade above the stock will effect the angle of attack for the teeth. A slight adjustment higher or lower can make a difference with some blades. Sharpening carbide blades is a very exact process and not everyone has the ability to set up and maintain equipment properly. You could have a bum blade, try some others. Feed rate and consistency of feed also contribute. My equipment always performs better with my stock feeder than with my hands.
Blade warped? I dont think he checked that yet FG. Is the fence secure when you lock it down can it move? How are the bearings on the arbor? Did he mention that FG. How did you check the fence for paralelism. I dont think he mentioned that FG.
Darkworksite4:
Estamos ganando detrás el estado de Calif. Derrotando a un #### a la vez. DESEA VIVO LA REVOLUCIÓN
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