Replies

1. 
   kawai | Apr 01, 2005 12:23am | #1

   The first line of your question tells me that you don't have a lot of equipment yet, but wish to get your feet wet and see if wd wrking is something you enjoy. If this is the case I would recomend that you get a shopsmith. You'll get a table saw and a whole lot more. My personal experience has been great and I find that every tool is quite accurate. I baught mine used and got a great deal by looking for it on line. Think about it.

   If the community you live in has a site for people to buy and sell, that is a great place to start looking, no matter what you buy. There are plenty of great tools out there for a lot less than what you can buy in a store. Many times you can even buy professional tools that you won't find at Lowes. I live in San Fran and find my deals on craigslist.org.

   Good luck

1. 
   webby | Apr 01, 2005 12:29am | #3

   Thanks for the advice scooter.

    I have looked at shopsmiths, and would really like to purchase individual tools because I know that woodworking is something I would like to do. I don't have a lot of shop tools, except a dewalt 12" cms, and a scrap, shop built router table for my dewalt 621. Most of the tools I have are geared toward remodeling and repair. Just never took the plunge for the shop tools yet.

   Webby

2. 
   BG | Apr 01, 2005 12:25am | #2

   Webby,
   There appears to be some good reviews on that Hitachi your looking at, but is that the real issue?
   Lots of people on here are quite content with their contractor saws...for others, like me, I wanted a cabinet saw and, damit, I deserve one...lol. The reality is that the TS is probably the least expensive (relatively)and best return on investment of all woodworking tools. When you start paying $50 for chisels, $100 for blades, $150 for precision cross cuts add ons, $200 for dado sets, $250 for a hand plane and $130 for a dovetail saw I think you'll agree $950 for a cabinet saw is a hellofa buy.
   To stay within your budget maybe used cabinet saw would be the best way to go. Maintaining a cabinet saw either new or used scared me but turns out to be relatively easy task...especially with the helpful tallents on this site.

    

1. 
   webby | Apr 01, 2005 12:37am | #4

   Hey BG,

   I have looked at the grizzley cabinet saw for about 995.00 I like it alot and could easily grow into it, I feel very quickly but right now I don't think I can swing it.

   Where can I check out the reveiws of the Hitachi? I really like it and the fence is solid as a rock.

   Personally do you find a 24" rip width a problem? If I bought the Hitachi would I immediatly have a problem with the rip width being to confining?

   I have been stocking up on as many tools as I can for years, working up to a woodworking shop type situation. I have cordless drills, straight edges, four routers, two plunge and one is a laminate trimmer,  four circular saws two of which are trim saws, some basic chisels, drill bits drivers, countersinks, jigsaw, cutout/multiuse spiral saw, dewalt 12"cms, sawzall, rotary hammer, hammerdrill, 3/8 cord drill, and a pretty good selection of finishing products, and handtools. Most are either portercable, dewalt, or milwaukee.

   Most of my tools are of the repair and remodel usage. Up until now if I made a small box or picture frame or something I was limited to the standard widths of project wood at Lowe's for example.

   I really need some larger tools to shape wood and size it for projects.

   Webby

   Edited 3/31/2005 5:38 pm ET by webby

   Edited 3/31/2005 5:47 pm ET by webby

   Edited 3/31/2005 5:52 pm ET by webby

1. 
   BG | Apr 01, 2005 02:33am | #7

   Webby,
   Lots of questions, let me take them one at a time.
   I did a Google search on the specific Hitachi model and the reviews came up.
   I have the Griz which has a 26" rip, but can be set up by shifting the rails to a 36" rip cut(that means no cutting to the left side of the blade)...I don't know but perhaps you could do this with the hitachi also. However, it is not much of an issue because I usually precut my sheet goods where I buy them and I have a good sled for dealing with ply on the TS.
   You'll find the footprint for the cabinet saw is actually smaller than the contractor saw...and the cabinet stores the saw dust (kinda).
   Once you get into this furniture thing you'll find less and less use for many of the hand power tools(personal experience.
   Lastly, yup, bandsaw, planer, drill press, router table, workbench and even a lathe to have full capability...its a pain.  

3. 
   AntzyClancy | Apr 01, 2005 12:55am | #5

   I started like you. There is a lot you can do with a table saw and a router. Suggestion: If you want to do a lot of cabinet work with sheet goods, a 30" ripping capacity is not going to cut it. Find a new or used machine with aobut a 50" capacity and make the one time investment, you will not regret it. You don't necessarily need a 3 HP cabinet saw, but you do need the cutting capacity that comes with it.

   Alternatively, you could start with frame and panel cabinets (not for your ordinary kitchen and bath) and skip the table saw all together. A bandsaw and a planer will serve you better to start.

   If you are set on a getting the TS now, I would suggest:

   http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?ItemNumber=G0444Z

   It is a better saw for the money, but you will still have trouble with sheet goods.

   Good luck,

   Todd

1. 
   webby | Apr 01, 2005 01:04am | #6

   Thanks for the veiwpoint FANCYCLANCY,

   I would love to have a saw with 50 inch rip capacity, I really like the look of the grizzley products for the money. I am also a little limited on garage space.

   I would also love to find like some old delta or powermatic machinery, or old high school shop equipment. That I could afford.

   Webby

   Edited 3/31/2005 6:13 pm ET by webby

1. 
   JohnSprung | Apr 02, 2005 01:26am | #11

   > I would also love to find like some old delta or powermatic machinery, or old high school shop equipment. That I could afford.

   Then you should take a look at:

   http://www.oldwwmachines.com/

   It's a site for guys who buy up and restore classic machines.  Sometimes they'll want to sell a finished project and buy something else to work on.  They have lots of Unisaws and PM66's, but given that you have that 12" cms, consider getting a 12" Tannewitz table saw.  That way you only have to buy one size of blade for both.

    

   -- J.S.

    

2. 
   CYOTEY | Apr 02, 2005 08:55am | #16

   Webby-Todd gave you some good advive. It is usally the lack of rip capasity that gets you into trouble not HP. Most people work with sheet good because of the cost of wood. I started off with contractor saw 24" rip, then I went to hybrid saw with 50"rip, and then I went to a Euro slider due to age. Buy a new or used hybrid or cab saw-most of the manufacturers offer 32" or 50" rails at resonable price.-good luck,DAVID

4. 
   Kent_F | Apr 01, 2005 07:05pm | #8

   A few random thoughts:

   I have the Jet contractor's saw, and I'm happy with it. The fence is nothing fancy, but it's accurate and reliable. I replaced the right wing with a laminated table, left the steel wing on the left, and have no desire to upgrade to cast iron wings.

   The Hitachi runs on 120V and is not a true 3 HP motor. They're using the old "maximum developed power" ruse. It's probably 1.5 HP, realistically.

   Grizzly has some great bargains.

   It's been a while since I've recommended a Sears tool, but the new Craftsman hybrid TSs look pretty darn good.

   A contractors' saw can produce as good a cut as a cabinet saw.

   Getting "glue line" rips has more to do with stock preparation, technique, and saw setup than with a particular choice of blade.

   If you don't have a jointer, hand planes are your friends. They'll still be your friends after you get a jointer.

   Rip capacity: more is better. BUT, there's no sense in a saw that's too big for your shop. Even if you can fit a 50" rip fence in your shop, do you have enough working space to handle full sheets of ply? I don't (can't even get full sheets in the shop), so sheet goods get cut to size with a circ saw in the driveway.

   Don't drive yourself nuts over this decision. Get a tool that will do the job, but remember that in the end, working safely, having fun, and making stuff are all more important than the labels on your tools.

    

    

1. 
   MarkRD | Apr 01, 2005 09:12pm | #10

   I look at it this way,whatever you buy, at times you'll wish you bought "the other one" :-)Mark

   Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.

5. 
   Dustmight | Apr 01, 2005 09:11pm | #9

   Hi Webby - Either of the saws you mentioned should do a decent job.  With that said, most of us like to buy the absolute best we can afford and get the most for the money spent.  IMO neither of those saws are near the top of the heap in that general price range....again, that doesn't mean they're not good, just that I view others as having more advantages. 

   Grizzly has four CS models that offer several advantages, especially the fence and miter gauge.  The downside is mail order, but it could pay off nicely.

   Sears has 3 new saws out that are hybrids or light duty cabinet saws.....many innovative features, and if you can find a sale price, they can be tough to beat. 

   HD recently had the Delta 36-675 clearance priced at $399....one of the best bargains going lately.  The steel T2 fence is nice upgrade from the lower grade aluminum versions.  HD also has the Ridgid 3650 that I think offers some advantages over the Jet and Hitachi. 

   Rockler, Amazon, Woodcraft and others have the Delta 36-680 for < $600....cast iron wings and the T2 fence. 

   Keep doing the research until you're comfortable you've found the right tool for you.

    

6. 
   CTDurham | Apr 02, 2005 02:09am | #12

   I don't know your timeline but "Sawstop" maybe a consideration.  The company built a saftey product that would immediately stop a saw blade (approx. 5 milliseconds) when it detects high elec. capacitance (like your finger or a piece of metal but wet wood does not set it off).  They have not had the major manufacturers add this equipment to their saws so they decided to start building their own table saws.  I don't think they are selling yet but it sounds like a great safety device. 

   Not trying to set off a time bomb but I wished I would have bought a left tilt blade because I think it is a safety hazard to have the wood wedged between the blade and the fence.  Another thing that I think is important, a good fence and a properly tuned machined will  make a low end saw perform fairly well (But I would still buy as good a machine as you can afford even if it does stretch your budget).

   Have fun

    

7. 
   Handrubbed | Apr 02, 2005 02:38am | #13

   I have had a Jet JWTS contractors saw for a number of years now and I can tell you that I am very satisfied with it and fell it is a good value for the most part. The only major weakness in this saw is the fence, if it is the standard model. This fence has no positive lock feature and can move during rip cuts. The optional fence is a biesemeyer copy and is quite good. I threw out the stock fence after a year or so and purchased an aftermarket fence and have never looked back.

   I personally should have bought a loaded model of the saw because by now I have spent the equivalent on options such as a quick-release splitter, machined pulleys, arbor adjusters, cast iron table extensions, mobile base and so on and so on.....but thats my choice, not necessity. All of my Jet tools have been very good, and I would say superior to what Delta has been delivering in the last few years. Theres not a machine or accessory that I have from Delta that I wouldnt trade for the equivalent Jet.

   There are other good deals out there from Grizzley and such, so read the reviews. The key is buy a very good blade (Forrest thin kerf) and be sure your saw is aligned with everything exactly parallel.

   Hope this all helps you decide.

8. 
   KesslerCraftsman | Apr 02, 2005 03:05am | #14

   Hi Webby,

   The Jet Contractor Saw is a good one.  I've had mine for four years and have built many, many pieces of furniture...tables, a dresser, frames..lots of stuff.  No adustments needed so far.  And the Xacta fence is a good fence..no complaints.

   I have the cast iron wings and am happy with them.

   Have you considered a used saw?  I picked up a Powermatic 66 cabinet saw for around $800...with around 6 blades thrown in to boot.  Check your classified ads, etc and be patient.

   The glue line blades are nice..but eventually you'll want some way to joint or straighten the edge of a board..but there are options...a router table, etc.  I use the Forrest blades..pricey but nice and seemingly endless resharpenings..at least so far.

    

   Good luck!

   lp

1. 
   lowchin | Apr 02, 2005 05:07am | #15

   Hey WebbyNot to long ago I was in the market for a tablesaw my first actually. I looked over many of the models mentioned here and my first choice was the rigid 3650 it had a left tilt 36 inch rip capacity mobile base and I could go down the street and get it. Well I purchased it only to learn about the infamous arbor problem. After learning that i couldnt seat a dado properly on the saw I brought it back. I then decided to go with the Grizzly G0576 http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=G0576
   great saw left tilt 2 hp wired for 220 30 inch rip capacity. Things I dont like about it though hand wheel for blade height adjustment is kind of sqeezed under the saw by this i mean when i adjust the height my hand gets caught in between the fence rail minor inconveince but bugs me none the less. Another thing the base sucks just sheet metal not very conveinent if you want to move it and if your a new woodworker your going to move it. Id upgrade to longer rails if you can just makes life easier if you have the room. The blade guard stinks either that or Im just not putting it together right but you have to unbolt the thing to get it on and off. It does not come with a blade just to let you know. The miter gauge is decent also.It is a good saw there are better out there and there are worse depends on what your willing to spend. If I had it to do over again I would seriously consider those new craftsman hybrid saws and if you do dont pay full price there are all kinds of deals for getting the model with the biesmeyer fence for like 650 to 700 bucks with sales a craftsman club membership etc. Just dont forget all the other things that are going to add cost mobile base, blades rip, crosscut, dado, and all the other things im forgetting.If your looking for other tools I would always check amazon there always having sales and Ive bought quite a few decent tools from em. The Dewalt planer 735 for 260 delivered dewalt biscuit joiner and tons of other things theyve always been good to me never screwed anything up. Well Ive blabbed enough for one post hope the hunting goes well.later Centaur

9. 
   forestgirl | Apr 02, 2005 05:53pm | #17

   I didn't read through everything here (short on time this morning), but your mention of the Hitachi saw got my attention.  Don't do it!!!  I've looked at that saw, there have been at least 2 threads about it here at Knots.  It would be a complete waste of money for you, given what you want to do.  IIRC, it is not a 220 motor, and I can guarante the 3HP rating is bogus.  The Jet or the Delta low-end contractor saws are much better machines.

   Consider the Delta if you can find one to look at.  IMHO, the fence is better than the Jet's (I own an older Jet TS).  Also, take a good look at the new Grizzly contractor saw.  If you have 220V, you can get the [true] 2HP version with cast iron wings for $575 + $78 freight = $653.  Here's the page with all of Grizzly's table saws.  IMHO, stay away from anything with the old metal Shop Fox fence (found on the 1023Z), and stick with the Biesemeyer clones (Shop Fox Classic on the cabinet saws), or the new SF Aluma-classic on the contractor saws.

   As far as going without a jointer, you can do it, but you'll have to get lumber that's flat on it's face, or learn to face-joint with a planer or router.  If you're using alot of sheet goods, rather than solid stock, it's less of a problem.

   You'll live thruogh an adjustment problems on your contractor saw; they're a pain, but not fatal.  Chances are, the blade will be right-on from the factory.

   Congrats on being in college at the ripe age of 35.  I returned to college when I was 37 and finished my degree when I was 39.  It was tough, but really worth it!

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   
   

   ---

   Edited 4/2/2005 11:04 am ET by forestgirl

1. 
   webby | Apr 04, 2005 10:18pm | #18

   Thanks forestgirl, and to all who replied with the good info. I am still doing research and my main desire in a saw is a really good fence and a larger than average rip capacity. I had mentioned a jet or other brand contractor saw but I feel that I would immediately be dissapointed in the lack of rip capacity so I am looking at larger cabinet saws, and trying to be patient.

   I know that several of the projects I would be close to doing would put me at the limit of the rip capacity of cheaper saws. I have tried to think of ways of dealing with smaller rip capacity but I don't think they are safe.

   For example I have a glue up for a table top rough sized at 27" the finished size needs to be 26" by 26"  and I want to rip a 1/2" peice off of each side. My rip capacity is 25". I am pretty sure that it would not be safe to place the 1/2"  inch  off cut next to the fence and between the blade and rip each side to finished width that way, or would it?

   Any way I don't want to buy something I am not happy with. I saw very quickly from the results that I got from the router table that I cobbled together for a friends project that my learning curve is going to be rather flat and the only real thing limiting me is the lack of proper tools.

   Thanks for all the info every one, the research goes on.

   Webby

   Edited 4/4/2005 3:24 pm ET by webby