I want to conduct an informal survey among you fellow woodworkers. Table saws and safety seem to be a recurring topic here. Does anyone who has been at this for a while use the stock bladeguard/splitter that came with their tablesaw? I would like to narrow this discussion just a little in that I am more interested in responses from users/owners of contractors sized saws and up, as opposed to the portable/tabletop sized saws. Would you please qualify your responses with reasons for your decisions? Have you invested in an aftermarket guard or splitter?
I look forward to reading what everyone has to say. Thank you all for your feedback.
Edited 4/16/2007 12:12 pm by BigK
Replies
The splitter alone offers quite a bit of protection IMO, and I'm pretty conscientious about using it. The stock guard tends to block my view, grab the work piece, and impede feeding....I'm just not comfortable with it. I rarely use it for that reason, but I did make a custom pop in splitter that goes in and out in seconds. It's low enough that I can leave in place for most cuts.
Edited 4/16/2007 2:43 pm ET by Knotscott
BigK,
I use the stock splitter on my PM 66 for all appropriate operations. It's a bit of a pain to take off and reinstall when necessary, but no big deal (I'm not a pro, so time is not a huge issue for me). In my mind, ensuring that the kerf remains open is one key measure in preventing kickback. I'm coming around on the added benefits of the riving knife, but as my saw is not equipped or readily adaptable, the stock splitter is my choice and it works perfectly well.
I don't use the blade guard that came with the saw. I find it awkward, annoying and almost useless. It is so in the way most of the time, I think it's more a hazard than a safety device. I have added my own shop-made guard, but am not liking it much more. So, I work without one.
When I had a Delta contractor I replaced the stock splitter with a Merlin because it was quite easy to remove when it was in the way...if I had kept it I planned on getting a blade cover that atttached to an arm so it would not be in the way and I wouldn't have to remove it...now I have a Saw Stop and everything so far is stock (can't afford to replace anything for awhile)
Neil
I have the General cabinet saw. And no, I don't leave the safety system on. I change back and forth from a blade to a dado stack a lot and the doing and undoing is a bit much.
No one uses this thing but me, and it's my personal choice. It's the way I feel about a drink, a smoke, a motorcycle helmet, and whether or not you're going to eat that piece of chocolate cake.
I dislike being told what and how to run my life. IMO, each of us should have the right to make his/her own choices.
Prior to getting a SawStop, I rarely used the guard and attached splitter on my late '70s TS. I found that they got in the way and were more dangerous than sawing without them. Often, if the splitter wasn't adjusted perfectly, the wood would catch on the splitter. I'm very surprised I never had any kick-back when this happened. The guard and splitter were also difficult to remove and replace.
I've discovered with the SawStop it is almost impossible for wood to get caught on the riving knife. It is very simple to exchange the riving knife with the guard which also has a riving knife, not just a traditional splitter. Instead of two bolts with lock washers and nuts to loosen and tighten, they can be switched with a simple leaver. These safety features alone make the SawStop much safer than my old saw.
I have a 5HP Shop Fox table saw and I ordered the Biesemeyer snap in splitter. The Unisaw Snap in splitter fits the Shop Fox. Two weeks ago I ordered the PSI Overarm Guard and really like it. The dust collection is good so I don't get a face full of sawdust. I am glad I made the investment to make the tablesaw safer. I think I have done everything I can to make the table saw safe.
Jeff
Jet 10" cabinet w/ left tilt. I use the stock splitter and guard on almost all through cuts. One night after cutting a bunch of dadoes (without, obviously) I switched blades, and without thinking, made a bevel cut on a large panel. Threw a piece of plywood halfway across the garage--wouldn't have happened if I'd reinstalled the guard/splitter.
I have a SnapOn ratcheting 12/13 mm box wrench that I use to put the guard on and off, so time or convenience is really not much of an issue (amateur). Safety is. Someday, I hope to get either a SawStop style saw, or a better guard. In the meantime I'll use the POS provide guard to help avoid cutting off a POS (piece of skin).
I have a Delta contractors saw. For the first 10 years or so I always used the blade guard and splitter, taking it off when necessary for dados etc. About 8 years ago something seemed to shift and the stock kept hitting the splitter so now I use neither. My intent is to investigate a guard on an arm, to a great degree for the dust collecting benefits. It is also my intent to instal a splitter in my zero clearance insets (the Lee Valley plastic one).
I have only had the SawStop a few weeks. But removing and replacing the blade guard and splitter with the riving knife and vise versa is a piece of cake. This afternoon I swapped them 5 or 6 times and timed myself as I was doing it. Without pushing it I was able to go from the guard to the knife in about 60 seconds and from the knife to the guard in about 75. When they make it that easy to use the appropriate safety option, there is no excuse not to use it.
George
You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing. - Michael Pritchard
I used the stock guard and splitter on my old, blue Jet contractor saw until I could afford to buy an overhead guard and quick-release splitter. Having used a small saw with no guard or splitter, and losing adrenaline at every use, I determined not to ever do so again.
I have had the decision to always use the splitter and guard validated by close calls. I've had case-hardened wood close up, I've had the spinning-square-of-plywood experience after forgetting to put the splitter back on once. A very close call. And I've had a small piece kick back, but be stopped by the guard.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I have to use manufacture's equipment.. per school safety policy... which is normally okay... especially since I'm teaching high school students.... I look at ways to modify a jig, sled.. or make one guard which extends beyond manufacture.. remember I'm working with novices... but I two have found that it's actually safer without knife and guard... less kickback... plus, I can yell at my kids if they are not holding on to thier wood when they are finished cutting and waiting for the saw blade to stop ;0P
Dennis
PS.. my guards and jigs are safer than the manufactures so I stay out of trouble...
besides I'm teaching my students on a jobsite Dewalt... will get around to the big toys in a couple years...
I make my living by woodworking and don't use either guard or splitter. The guard because it's just obstructs my view of what's going on with the cut. And I really haven't seen an advantage to a splitter, and since I'm changing from a single blade to dado blades it's just another time using deal.
I've only had one kickback very early on and it was because the blade wasn't parallel to the fence. It was pretty impressive though - shot a 4" sguare piece of 1/2" stock 24 feet down the shop and went thru 1/2" drywall. That demonstration was enough to make me cautious to check the fence parallelism ALL the time, and to watch the cut to see if it's closing up behind the blade.
I'm also hypervigilant about my hands and the blade, since a serious incident would endanger my income. I try to keep my hands at least 12" from the blade by using pushsticks, and use 100% concentration whenever that blade's spinning.
The tablesaw doesn't scare me, but frankly the router does. Maybe it's the RPM of the bit and the sound it makes when cutting. I really don't like using it.
I had a contractors saw previously and didn't use the stock guard/splitter combo. This unit was extremely difficult to change in and out and also was poorly machined so that it rarely achieved acceptable alignment with the blade. Just a piece of junk. I also use a dado stack quite often and switching it out was troublesome.
I recently bought a Sawstop cabinet saw and use both the stock guard or the riving knife on all cuts with the blade. The guard is thin and easy to use. I don't find that it impairs my vision at all. Best of all, the guard and riving knife slip in and out in seconds without tools so there really isn't a disincentive to using them.
Rick
I have a Delta contractor saw, and I use the stock splitter and blade guard. I have the same experience that a lot of other people do in that the stock guard catches on the leading edge of the wood as I feed it into the saw, and I really don't like that, but I like the prospect of having the blade exposed while I use the saw even less. I moved recently and when I reassembled the saw something was out of alignment so that the splitter didn't sit in line with the saw, but it was easy enough to correct the issue.
At the school where I take woodworking classes all of the saws are cabinet saws with a snap-in splitter and no blade guard. They emphasize safe practices and drill the proper procedure (where you hands do/don't go, where to stand, never reach across/over the blade, etc.) into you but I still get the willies using the saws with no guard.
Rizzo the Rat, A Muppet Christmas Carol
...school...splitter but no blade guard. That really sounds like a fat lawsuit waiting to happen. I am impressed, but in this case that is not a good thing.
My opinion is that anyone who doesn't use some sort of splitter doesn't understand tablesaw safety. I use the stock splitter and guard, and will continue to do so until I can replace it with something better. I put guards on all my jigs as well.
Never had a kick back, but I've had some wood bind up on the splitter as the kerf closes.
The stock splitter is at times a pain in the butt to take on and off. I looked into aftermarket splitters are guards and there isn't anything out there that I like at this point. I'm really tempted to follow Sarges example and build a crown guard.
I suspect that when Sawstop finally gets it's hybrid out I'll be taking a serious look at it. I'm really impressed with the riving knife/guard on the cabinet saw.
Buster
BigK:
Safety was the single most important criterion when selecting my equipment. I elected to go with a european slider (Felder). The riving knife does more than anything else to prevent kickback. The crown guard with dust collection prevents but not totally eliminates the possiblilty of getting your fingers near the blade. Dado blades are not permitted in Europe and the sliders sold here often have to have an adaptation to accept dado blades because of their ubiquity in the US. Europeans, do not have to cope with the changeover to a dado. This appears to be one reason why the splitter and guard get tossed pretty quickly. The other is that they are often very kludgy compared to the euro equivalent.
Whether ripping or cross cutting clamp your work the slider, stand back and push it through. I suspect that those who routinely use sliders feel that Saw Stop has solved the wrong problem.
Also I like the sensors and mico switches that incapacitate the equipment when you open it up to change a blade.
I have no empirical evidence but it is my sense that, among the good folk that inhabit knots, sliders are less than 5%. It's like owning a Mac (which I use), you are destined to be among a minority!
Hope this POV helps with your "survey"
Regards,
Hastings
I use the stock blade guard and splitter on my General right-tilt cabinet saw. Because I've only been woodworking for about 6 months, I'm extra careful, but I feel that the mechanism makes the job of cutting harder than it needs to be.On overhead guard doesn't appeal to me, but I'd love to have dust collection on the top of the blade. I haven't done any dado's yet, so I don't know how I'll tackle that.Gary Curtis northern calif.
All the time BigK
Use a riving knife and a crown guard or overhead guard, depending upon the circumstance.
Cheers,
eddie
Eddiel
The spliter /guard was a major disapointment on my General 650. I like the rest of the saw. I used to own a 25 year old 10" tilting table Inca with riving knife /overhead guard. I would sure like to have those pieces of my old saw back!
I have removed the guard - easy as pulling a pin, but continue to struggle with the splitter as I consider the splitter mandtory for safety!
Gear
The stock splitter/guard on my Delta Contractor's saw got bent, and the plastic broken in the last move. So, I replaced it with the Biesemeyer splitter. I have the Biesemeyer overhead guard sitting in a box, but am not going to install it until I put on the used Powermatic Accu-Fence I got from one one of the guys I used to work with. (Which will hopefully be next weekend. I need to use the metal shop at work to drill some new holes in the mounting rails to match my saw. Any thoughts on my moving it to the left while I am at it. The saw is a right tilt, and that would let me cut beveled edges on wider panels.)
The PM-66 I use at work has the stock guard system in place. All we do with it is rip, so it doesn't seem to get in the way.
To be honest, I don't think I've ever used a saw with a splitter or the guard in place. I have however learned to be very cautious, and keep a wide assortment of push sticks handy.
Matt
Left tilt UniSaw: No, I don't use the factory supplied splitter.
I do use the "green plastic" insert (is it a DK?) precisely mounted behind the blade when I rip.
Frosty
Morning Big K...
Uni-saw for ripping and modified Ryobi BT 3000 for dado's and sizing panels...
Using the Uni-saw splitter for a template, I cut another one from a 16 gauge steel blank. Threw those "god-less pawls" way and replace it with a crown gaurd made from scrap hard-wood. Added a plastic shield from the Penn State over-head dust-safety shield (sold separately for $24.95) to get the 2 1/2" dust port on top and built my own over-head arm that carries the hose to my specs. I also modified the plastic shield on a band-saw to meet my criteria. The stock bolts that hold the splitter were replaced with a T handle bolt and a Star handle bolt that eliminates a wrench and gets the splitter off in under 45 seconds.
The BT 3000 is stock with a rivng knife and slider. Removed the plastic guard on top and replaced with a crown guard and added a short 4" plastic shield (made from stock plastic shield) that slides on an off the front of the crown with a touch.
BTW.. to the poster that mentioned using his stock shield even though it drags on the stock when initially making contact in the front:
The front of all stock plastic shields I have seen have been cut at the factory at basically a 45 degrees angle. You are going to get a lot of resistance with that harsh of an anlge. Now.. who was the clever engineer that initially couldn't figure that out and others followed in his tainted foot-steps?
Solution: take the stock shield to the band-saw after you draw a flowing radius curve on it with a black magic marker. Intentionally draw the radius to include taking off the bottom 1/2" of that stock shield to raise it (which will also reduce drag and decrease lift weight) off the table by that height. With that new radius the shield will not have the resistance it had before when the stock meets it. Just that simple, IMO.
Sarge.. jt
Edited 4/17/2007 11:15 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
The stock set-up on the SawStop is the only guard I have used that even comes close, I have used one every day for about the last year. All guards are such a pain. When will someone please make one that is not in the way and doesn't obstruct the operation in any way? Even the SawStop blade cover will contact the blade if you knock into it sideways. It doesn't take much for this to happen. The saw comes with two set-ups. Just a riving knife and a splitter/cover combo. The fact that you need to switch back and forth depending on the situation tells me that we still have a way to go.
Again, having said all that it is at least useable. ALL other American style cabinet saws' stock guards that I have had the displeasure of using are complete junk. I have a Rigid contractor's saw in my home shop that I reluctantly keep the stock splitter on-no other viable option at this point.
Maybe I should stop complaining and re-invent the thing myself?!?!
-Paul
That pretty much sums up my opinion of all of the other stock blade guards, junk. Yet somehow the CPSC allows the manufacturers to get away with passing this worthless junk off on us.
I have been using a Sears contractor type saw for about 30 years. I almost always use the stock guard/spliter. I feel like the kickback pawls offer some protection. I can no longer see through the plastic guard, but still keep it in place. The only time I remove the guard is when crosscutting when I want to sneak up on a mark. The fence is very frustrating to adjust, I want to upgrade to a cabinet saw someday, and will probably go with the Sawstop.
Rob
Your Craftsman sounds just like the one I just gave away (vintage 1979) to Habitat for Humanity. I did, as you suggest, upgrade to a SawStop. What a fantastic machine!!! You won't believe the difference.
Edited 4/17/2007 9:47 pm ET by basset-hound
We have a Habitat "ReStore" here where you can donate building materials , etc. and proceeds go to Habitat. I will probably give it to them when I am ready. The problem with this place is I go by there at least once a week and end up buying something I don't need. People have started to bring in just about everything, great place if you are re-doing a house or have rental property.Rob
Habitat for Humanity was really glad to get my saw. I think they plan to sell it in their store, but I'm not sure. It was one of the easiest donations to a charity organization I have ever done. They picked it up right on schedule. My Craftsman left on a Tuesday, the day I ordered the SawStop. In fact, my wife called just as I was going over the invoice for my purchase. The SawStop was delivered on Thursday.
Hey BigK,
My MiniMax Combo came with a riving knife that I leave in place whenever I can. It also supports a blade guard that I usually use when doing repeated crosscuts. I use a pair of Grippers when I'm ripping and take the guard off, but leave the riving knife in place.
Tom
No splitter or guard on my 3HP left tilt Delta. I have had one kick back in 15 years. Nice hole in the drywall. (Knock on wood.) Blade needs to be scary sharp and the fence has to be spot on parallel. Safety glasses with a 1.5 HP ducted exhaust system keeps the dust to a minimum. I keep the blade height to a minimum also. The guard that came with the saw always seemed to be in the way. Guards also seem to make it harder to use push sticks. As others have stated in the thread, I like having a clear view of everything.
I use the stock blade guard and riving knife which came with two of the saws in the shop - the Altendorf slider and a 60+ year old White dimension saw. Both of these saws have "new moon" shaped riving knives directly behind the blades and overhead crown guards (one clear acrylic, the other cast iron). The third table saw we have, a W/Master OP-201 (Czechoslovak knock-off of the Ulmia 1710R table saw), drives me a bit potty, though. It has a riving knife with the crown guard mounted on top and I'm about set to toss the lot in the skip. The guard is far too flimsy for my liking and restricts the depth of cut somewhat - so it's about to get a home-made overhead guard and "new moon" riving knife. I also disliked the long through fence, so that has already acquired a shop-made sliding section to allow me to use it in pulled-back Euro rip fashion. The thing about our saws is that they aren't used with dado heads so there's no need for the guards/riving knives to ever come off and a straight wthrough fence has no advantages - in fact for ripping there are major disadvantages (in terms of kickback). To my mind the argument "I can't see the cut therefore I take the guard off" just says that the scale on the rip fence isn't set-up properly or that the operator can't be bothered to replace things after a dado set has been used. Having tried them I have, however, some sympathy for people using Unisaws or PM66s - the factory splitter/guard arrangements seem to be a bit lame in comparison to what I'm used to on Euro saws.
One thing I would say, however, is that the more power your saw has and the sharper the blade the less likely you are to experience a kickback - but the bigger the motor your saw has, if the kickback occurs, the greater the force involved. Another reason for using a riving knife and pulled-back rip fence
As to dados - when we do them its either a spindle moulder (shaper) and rebate block or router for the edge rebates or its's a router/jig or radial arm saw with auto return and dado head for the housings (mid panel dados). The different safety regulations means you adopt different approaches.
And I do make a living from bashing wood about, so time is important to me - but so are fingers, but reconstructive surgery isn't painless and you never 100% of what you've lost back (from experience, although my big one was on a pin router)
Scrit
Edited 4/18/2007 12:38 pm by Scrit
HI Scrit,Rather than home-make a guard, SCM sell a small overhead guard at a competitive price.I've got one on a 10" saw but it would fit a 12" saw.Their part numbers (LAB300N service manual)2945967500L - guard parallelogram adjustment
0745967700G - replacement guard - vacuum moulded polycarbonate.Added benefit of satifying the HSE inspectorCheers,eddieEdit - you need to supply a frame/support arm out of (?)2.5"(?) pipe
Edited 4/19/2007 6:17 pm by eddiefromAustralia
OK, this is going to wind everyone up.
Speaking from Europe, I have to say that I am _horrified_ at the pictures of tablesaw use I see printed in FWW. The idea of using a saw without guard or riving knife just appalls me - I don't ever do anything like that, either paid work or doing it for fun. If I want to do something where the setup won't work, like tenoning, I stop and build a jig. The fundamental rule is that if I can see the top of the spinning blade at any time, then I'm doing something wrong. I'd love to know the rate of saw accidents per million saw hours in the US and Europe, but I don't know any way of finding that out. I do know that the health&safety police here in the UK would be go berserk if I tried some of the stuff shown in FWW. And I agree with them, typing with all 10 fingers here.
<<I do know that the health&safety police here in the UK would be go berserk if I tried some of the stuff shown in FWW>>mad,Oh, sure, but they'll let you drive on the wrong side of the street all day.Mike
Mad,You said:
"The idea of using a saw without guard or riving knife just appalls me"Most of the time the authors in those shots are keen to call out that they took the guard off for clarity of the photo. And then they add the "don't try this at home" disclaimer. Whenever I don't see the guard / splitter / whatever in place, I assume that it was taken out solely for that shot. And if it wasn't, then I figure they're luckier than I hope to be!Glen
the authors in those shots are keen to call out that they took the guard off for clarity .........
Aw, c'mon. This is the era of moral outrage.
Unisaw, 20+ years. Factory supplied "guard" (insert air-quotes here) is somewhere. Probably in a tool cabinet.
Crosscutting: Sliding cross cut box with polycarbonate guard front to back
Mitering: Sliding miter jig, polycarbonate guard front to back
Ripping: Done carefully with featherboards, sometimes, and push sticks, always. Left hand kept stable, right hand on rip fence.
Grooving rabetting, same as ripping.
I wish it had a riving knife -- how hard can it be for Delta to make such a thing?
Edited 4/18/2007 6:44 pm ET by byhammerandhand
Mine is a Ryobi BT3100, 10" contractor grade saw.
I always use the stock splitter, guard, and anti-kickback pawls. The one time I didn't, I had a close enough call to make me put them back on immediately.
The only exception to that rule is when I'm using the dado set or I'm ripping a really tall piece (2x4 into a 1x4, for example).
Why? I make a living with my fingers and can't afford to lose any of them. And I also don't like pain. It hurts, sometimes pretty bad. So I avoid it where possible. :-)
I haven't looked into an aftermarket setup yet because it hasn't been that big of a deal to me. But, I'm a hobbyist woodworker, so I don't worry as much about how much time is spent on transitioning blades. I work around that issue by trying to stage as many pieces as possible so they're ready when the appropriate blade is installed.
Glen
3 hp Unisaw with Excalibur overarm guard w/ dust collection. I love this guard. It is tough and will stop most pieces from lifting off the table. I used to work with the Biesmeyer overarm guard but it is too flimsy to prevent the board from lifting. It does show the blade better; The Excalibur virtually hides it from view. I like guards that prevent casual contact with the cutters.Snap in Biesmeyer splitter that gets used about 1/4 of the time. Most of the shop users are brain dead and ignore the guard, splitter, and other devices (feather boards, push sticks, etc.). I tend to use them every time. I try to preach to them but they are common sense resistant. Lead a horse to water but not make them drink kind of thing. All safety accessories reside in a cart that is next to the saw; It slides up under the tables when needed.Most shop work here involves repetitive cutting tasks. It is dangerous work without guards. Not taking the time to set up protection when cutting hundreds of parts is outright stupidity.How many of you are religious about eye protection?!!!!!-Ranger Tim
Ranger Tim,
I am VERY religious in the use of safety glasses. I work in an environment that does NOT tolerate not wearing proper PPE. For me, it can mean losing my job if it were a persistent problem. I personally don't care if someone wishes to take the chance at losing their vision (or their job for that matter). I tend to be a little more sensible about these things which is why I NEVER go without them at work or at home.
Such a simple thing.......
-Paul
Beyond religous about eye protection. Won't work without it.
I have a DeWalt 746 hybrid and hated the stock guard. The kick back pawls are the pits when rip trimming, that is when the fall off is less than 1". They want to push the fall off into the blade and then it scoots backwards towards me. I didn't like the One piece cover and would rather have either side hinged and the front open for vision. I tore my stock guard all apart and ground the splitter into a "Stationary Splitter". I like seeing and knowing exactly where the blade is !!
IMHO most STOCK GUARDS are meant to appease OSHA and pose a greater danger than a bare blade.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Hi -- great topic.
I have a 10" Bridgewood LTS table saw and found that on this otherwise excellent table saw that the included blade guard/splitter combo was a royal pain to use and so I ended up not using it. I was concerned about safety (especially after getting six stitches in a finger using a biscuit joiner) and so made a more serious effort to find an aftermarket splitter that would fit this saw. I finally found the unfortunately-named 'shark guard' at Lee Styron's small operation, web site:
http://www.leestyron.com/default.php
It is easy to use -- no wrenches required for removal and the blade guard -- with a dust collection port -- is also easily removed for a splitter-only operation. Fits well and the quality of workmanship on the splitter is very good. The guard is available for a number of different saws.
Dave
I'm curious. How did you cut yourself with a biscuit joiner? That's the one tool I've been fairly confident wouldn't hurt me since the blade is never exposed... Oh well.
Rick
I was in a hurry of course -- putting a slot in the end of a piece of 1 x 4 white oak that I was bracing with my hand -- oak slipped -- my finger didn't. Luckily only a flesh wound and -- hopefully -- I've learned my lesson. I now try and imagine any way that a piece of wood can slip -- although I'm sure that I haven't thought of them all.
When I got my Delta Uni-saw during the setup I put on the saw guard and adjusted it. I tried to make a few cuts and found that the visibility was poor. Iit has not seen the light the light of day since. I do most of my crosscuts with a sled since I have found that is a bit more accurate. I do not have a splitter nor an aftermarket guard. I would say that if someone would come up with a decent guard I might give it a try. When using a table saw you have to be in the right frame of mind and not distracted when the blade is spinning.
Greg
Question: Why do people want to see the blade cut?
I was taught to watch the contact of the board against the fence. I'm very aware if the blade, I know it's under the guard. I know exactly where it is at all times, the blade doesn't move around. If I get close to the guard I'm close to the blade. It's kind of like my feet... When I walk I know where they are, I don't have to watch them. If I do, I'm like to run into something.
Knowing where the blade is doesn't keep one from contacting the blade. Keeping your hands away from the blade is much better and can be done with or without a guard. Only a guard provides a physical barrier between yourself and the blade. Guards also have the ad advantage of dust collection, and of course some protection from kickback.
On a side note: I use wood push sticks at the table saw (I use scraps of ply). I've read some reports about plastic sticks accidentally contacting the blade and being driven back into the hand hard. Does anybody have any thoughts on plastic sticks.
Buster
Why do people want to see the blade cut?..................
Because they can. <g>
"Question: Why do people want to see the blade cut?"
I for one ask the same question. If you are making a straight cut (which is, after all what table saws do) then material to fence contact is the crucial thing IMHO. I also believe that a guard provides more of a tactile/visible warning of danger than anything else.
"I've read some reports about plastic sticks accidentally contacting the blade and being driven back into the hand hard. Does anybody have any thoughts on plastic sticks."
I use plastic sticks on my slider (hard plastic, OEM-supplied) and elsewhere in the shop (generally softer polyethylene/nylon affairs) as well as home made plywood/hardwood ones. I doubt that the factory made ones will ever be pushed back into my hand - for starters the shape is smooth and they'd probably slide away beneath the wrist if caught and in any case the downwards motion of the saw blade would seem to preclude that
Scrit
I learned to use a table saw with my grandfather. No splitter, no blade gaurdI worked with my contractor Uncle- no splitter, no blade gaurd on the shop sawI dabbled for a few years on and off as a homeowner- meme chose.worked in a cabinet shop, no gaurds, no splittersworked on-site with contractors, no gaurds or splitters.My own shop, no splitter, but there is a slide over plexi gaurd pivoted off the fence if need be. Course, the blades is usually on the sharp side. throughout all this previous experience, safety glasses were available, but not often used either by myself or my mentors. Now they are. Face shields are in fact the norm now at least for me. Blade profiles are changing, and the chips thrown back at ya by the high-angled blades are oh so much more dangerous than the dust and debris that used to be tossed by triple chip blades.Would I want a splitter? Not at this point. No purpose to it to my plebian mind, I can see when stock is binding, and all a splitter is gonna do is make it bind more (against the fence, and therby against the saw blade, as it has a longer path to exert warpage over-simple physics). I guess if you got a dull blade and it should overheat to the point of going into that warpage induced devil-dance of wobbalage wherein no amount of previous machine alignment will save you , your stock, or yer zero clearance inser, then you might wanna have some kinda splitter, but yu wouldn't want to have a splitter mounted blade gaurd, or even an over-mounted gaurd too close to the blade, as that would prevent you from simply lifting the stock up and off the blade, you'd have to back it out or hit the off button . Backing out say a 14' slab of 8/4 oak out of a blade that is already overheated to the point of warpage is SIGNIFICANTLY more dangerous task than simply lifting it up to my mind. Some pundits might say just shut off the saw, but that's easier said than done when yer 12' away from the switch and holding up a hunnerd pounds of oak eh? Sheet stock the same, if yer blade is overheating and warping, you just lift it off the top of the blade. The fact that it is overheating and warping means to me that there is some discrepancy in feed, and given that liklihood, the chances of you backing it out with the same discrepancy are next to nill. Far better to just lift it up....unless the "safety" devices prevent it. My choice of operation is a reflection of my risk-management-it may not be yours. MY TS is in adjustment, fences aligned, blades sharp to medium sharp, and appropriate to task (no x-cut blades ripping 8/4 stock etc).I hope I'm not alone in following the "lift it up" avenue to safety. If I was I'd be really surprised. OTOH, I've heard of contractors being shut down on job sites when they didn't have splitters and gaurds, so my site saws have them handy, even if they ain't used. In my case, nobody uses my TS(s) but me. Toss in an employee or two into the mix, or maybe the brother-in law who uses it when yer not home, and I might be singin another tune....The good Lord somehow protects idiots and bad drivers, but somehow forgets the fellas that come after them -and that could well be me or you). A feller has got to figure it out for his/her own self. I is happy and confident in the risk-management I is following. Eric
I'd love to see how you lift up a 10 x 5 ft of 3/4in plywood or MFC which has stresses and is binding in cut, I really would
Scrit
Edited 4/20/2007 3:45 am by Scrit
I generally pre-cut cut 5x10, or 5x12 sheets of MDF up to 1" thick into thicknesses I can manage by myself on sawhorses or the like. The very first time I tried to lift a sheet of 1" MDF I figured out that I was clever enuf as to NOT try and manage that by myself. It was ever so much smarter and so much easier to move the saw than it was to move that much weight. Hell, even the wholesalers have to beg to find delivery folks for that stuff. Perhaps you find the same problemOnce I figured that out, I don't bother to even try and feed it into a machine. In fact, it's likely more economic in terms of time and trubble to cut the damnstuff on site with a handsaw and plane the edges with a handplane than it is to try and put it through a table saw. And that my friend is how I deal with the problem you describe. Please tell me what you do?Eric
"I generally pre-cut cut 5x10, or 5x12 sheets of MDF up to 1" thick into thicknesses I can manage by myself on sawhorses or the like."
Yep, pretty much what I do when I'm on my own despite having a 10ft slider. The problem is that I can't physically handle the jumbo sheets alone. It's something to do with my arms not stretching down below my knees, I guess.....
There have been times when I had to make a 10 ft rip and then we've loaded the saw from a fork lift truck. But there are times when you'll get a bit of kickback on a stressed sheet even with a riving knife/guard in place (normally because I've forgotten to pull the fence plate back to the "short" position). I don't see how you can work safely without guarding, though. If I caught antone using my equipment that way they'd be out of the door PDQ.
Scrit
I to have worked on many TS's w/o splitter or guard. But one accident has changed my perspective on that. A sharp blade can kickback material just as fast as a dull one. I've seen a piece of 1/2" baltic birch ply get thrown about 60'. All of my blades are sharp, always. My table saw, and all other tools, stay adjusted. Accidents don't always have warning signs or allow time for a correction on the part of the user. I have a good buddy who won't use the overarm guard or splitter on my unisaw in the shop. I won't let him use my saw any more. I hope and pray that God continues to watch over you.
Edited 4/20/2007 12:31 pm by BigK
In light of your experience with the stock garbage/guard, you are right. However I firmly believe that the Delta Overarm Guard with the splitter that comes with it are highly functional. The only drawback is that it doesn't collect sawdust, but you can see the blade thru it. You really should consider it at least. I have tried to convince Delta that they should offer the unisaw with this system at a package price. They were more worried about the price point. Go figure.
I own both a unisaw and a 81/2" makita saw. I used the guard and splitter on the unisaw until it got bent in one operation and it was removed. That was some 6 years ago. I never used the guard on the makita when I work as a trim carpenter.
It just got in the way of the work we did, and was easier not to use it.
Richard
The response has been pretty interesting. Thank you all for the feedback.
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