Just curious. What kind of table saw do you have? I have a RT Jet contractor but i am looking to move up to a LT Unisaw.
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Replies
Delta Contractors saw - new in September
delta platinum addition contractors
At Darkworks cut to size made to burn......Putty isnt a option
I own a Delta Platinum Edition Contractors saw and it has been great. I took the time to true everything up and it has been great ever since. I buy good blades and keep them sharp, I hope it will last forever.
Powermatic 72/74 14 Inch 7.5 hp
Rocky
I have a Delta unisaw 3 HP, RT with the Unifence of which I am really pleased. I've had it a couple of years, no complaints. I don't make my living with my WW, only pleasure. When I bought it I tuned the fence and haven't had to adjust it since. This was a big thing with me because I had always had trouble with fences. I bought the mobile base ($185.00) with it, I'm glad I did. I did a little research before I bought the Delta one of the WW mags rated the Unifence as the best. I have a friend that had a PM for sale, used very little (he wasn't a WW, he used it in his sign business) he said it was overrated. I could have saved $1100. buying his saw but I chose the Delta. We had a fellow here in Baytown who had a Craftsman 1 HP and upgraded to a Unisaw. He was trying to cut a sheet of 3/4 plywood by himself, He woke up on the floor with the plywood on top. These are powerful machines, it is sure nice to have that power if you are careful.
Good Luck Count Your Fingers and Blessings Often
les
rocky,
I have a Shopsmith which is a multipurpose woodworking tool. I like the various tool capabilities of the Shopsmith but absolutely detest the table saw feature. The table is too high, too small, too flimsy being aluminum, and deflects out of accurate cuts if I try ripping a long, heavy 8/4 maple board. The saw feature also requires Shopsmith brand saw blades with one inch arbors (although I bought a 5/8 machine arbor for conversion to regular blades) and the fence seems to always be out of square despite efforts to true. Therefore I am currently researching the purchase of an upgrade to a different combination machine such as Minimax, Laguna, Hammer or similar. That is if I can ever make up my mind and invest at least $6,000 in such a drool tool!
sawick
Powermatic#66w/60"exaktor slider, Delta 1.5hp contractors saw. They help me make a living.
Nice combo. I am jealous.
Grizzly 1023 with Bes fence clone. It is worth every penny of the $850 I paid! I spent the time getting it set-up right and got the fence within 0.001 and it has and does run great, always.
I was pretty surprised that Grizzley didn't have a booth at the Woodworking Show in Portland. Did they have one in Seattle? If the saws are any good, it seems they would benefit from a side by side comparison at the shows. As is, I don't know anyone who has one, but there are a half dozen places in town where I can look at Jets, Deltas, and Powermatics. When you are thinking about laying down $1000+ on a saw, it is nice to be able to touch it first.
Hi Wood -
No, Grizz wasn't at the Seattle show either. But then, neither was Delta. At least in a company sponsored presence.
As to the subject of this thread, albeit a little late in coming - I've got the left tilt Unisaw and have yet to find any shortcomings that limit my limited experience in the craft/art of woodworking. In fact, I've plowed through about anything I want without the motor even acting like it was there.
I was a little dismayed to find the table warped (not perzactly flat at least) but judging from posts in other topic threads, this doesn't seem to be unique to my saw.
I bought Delta from a local (within a few miles of where I live) dealer because I wanted to 1) support my local dealer who is also the one that sharpens my blades so I want him around and 2) I wanted a shoulder close by to cry on if I had any probles with the machine. And yes, when I voice my concerns about the table, they offered to take it back in a heartbeat if I wasn't satisfied. That took a lot of wind ouf my sails so I ended up keeping it.
I had entertained the General saw after seeing one at last years industrial woodworking expo but the only dealer for that brand is in Portland, Or. I'm in Seattle. Too far to go for support in my book.
...........
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Regarding the Grizz saw line-
I purchased a 1023Z (heavy duty) about a year ago. I did extensive research and watched the Jet cabinet saws go from $1100 to North of $1400 in a three year period while I evaluated all. I got the saw, one 10" carbide 40 tooth blade, a sliding table which is easily (read as 2 minutes) removed, a Shop Fox fence - You could lift the saw with this fence and it will not have deviated 1/16"th, a mobile base and shipping for just under $1300.00 this critter weighs in over 500 pounds as I've listed. The saw has a triple belt drive and it passed the nickel, PENNY AND DIME vibration test!
I had some parts missing like a couple of ratchet handles for the sliding table, an adhesive scale and a couple of specialty brackets. I didn't discover the missing parts for 6 months as I had not installed the slider until then. I called them up and referred to the missing parts by catalog number. No problem- they arrived in two days, no questions asked.
My only gripes are that the shipping care they used is a joke. Stuff appeared to be just dropped into the boxes. As I said, tho they didn't flinch when I told them of the corner of the box worn off and parts missing. Although the table is very flat the casting edges were not to my liking and I ground several pieces at the edges. All in all I am very pleased. My alternative choices were the Jet, Delta, and General. I figure that any of them would add at least 50% more than I paid equipped in the same way. I would make the same choice today.
Windywood
The Grizzly 1023 is a very nice machine. In a later posting, Wood mentioned that he hasn't seen the Grizzly machine anywhere. He's right. Grizzly only sells factory direct.
I am fortunate enough (or maybe unfortunate) to live only 5 hrs away from their facility in Muncy, PA. One day I decided to take a field trip to Muncy to see for myself what Grizzly has to offer. One thing that I must add is that Grizzly has a customer referal program that will put you in contact with a Grizzly customer that has the tool that you are interested in. I found this out after the 5 hr drive.
I got to see the 1023 first hand and try it out in their demo shop. The rep that I spoke with was helpful and knew the product very well. They are also non commissioned salespeople, which makes for a low pressure buying experience. They also service all of their machines in Muncy. I've heard that Delta has terrible customer service and that repairs take forever.
I was very impressed with the 1023. Although it's not made in the USA, I can't say that the "other" high end products are either.
I didn't drive home with one that day. I've always foamed at the mouth over a Delta or Powermatic (as I'm sure everyone has) and dreamed of having one in my humble shop. I've tried to talk myself out of the Grizzly, but it's getting harder and harder.
Squirrel....I just bit the bullet and ordered a Griz 1023. It was the cosmolene. I understand form the reviews on epinions the saw comes loaded with free cosmolene...its gotta be a slick saw....lol
I'm not trying to be smart. I just wrote what I saw. It looked like a good product. On the other hand the rest of their product line didn't look as good.
Sorry if I offended anyone.
You heard that Delta has bad customer service, hmmm Ive been dealing with them for over 30 yrs and Never had one bit of trouble, wish I could say that about Dewalt.... Just list me as one Very Happy Delta power tool owner....
ToolDoc
ToolDoc:
This is only what I heard. I may be wrong. I can say from experience that it took almost a year to get my Porter Cable biscuit joiner back, and when I did it still wasn't fixed properly. Delta and Porter Cable are one big happy family, aren't they?
Again, I didn't mean to offend anyone. The new guy apologizes.
Porter-Cable & Delta are indeed owned by the very same company,thay also just bought Oldham saw company..seems that Delta does offer just a tad better customer service than does Porter-Cable,But there working on getting the bugs out...
ToolDoc
I have a Delta Unisaw I got from Hydraflowequipment.com and realy like it a lot right out of the box it was ready to go.
ED
Is Yours a RT or LT
1953 Sears Craftsman, highly modified. 2 hp, 220 Volt motor, Mulecab Accusquare fence, Incra 2000 miter guage mounted on a sliding table board, 4'x4' outfeed table, router on right side of the welded stand I made, totally enclosed for dust collection. Magnetic switch with large "panic flap". New bearings, good combination blade, I can't imagine doing anything with a Unisaw or Grizzly 1023 that I can't do equally well with this saw. Of course, over the years to build this up, I probably have at least the price of a Grizzly 1023 into this old saw.....but there's a large satisfaction in 'doing it yourself'.
ALANM51953 wrote: Sears Craftsman, highly modified. 2 hp, 220 Volt motor.....but there's a large satisfaction in 'doing it yourself'.
I, too, have an OLDER Craftsman, somewhat modified. It's got a 3HP, 220 volt motor, shop modified original fence, 3x6 outfeed table, router table on the right of the shop modified standard sheet metal stand, needs a dust collection addition.
The bearings are fine but the retaining clips for the height adjustment mechanism needed replacement and I couldn't find the original parts, so I substituted. It's hanging together, but I don't completely trust it.
Vibration causes the height adjustment wheel to move unless I secure it with a hook of aluminum wire I keep handy for the purpose. I have never found a built-in clamp for it like it has for the tilt adjustmernt.
I am looking to upgrade sometime in the next year, but for now I can keep it within specs. It just takes more work - aarrgghh!
--
Lee in Cave Junction, Oregon
On the Redwood Highway
Powermatic T66 & a General 350, both 3hp. I bought them because I needed both a left and right tilting table saw. I have had them about 17 years, both have served me well however I feel the General is the better quality, smoother running saw and now that General offers a left tilting saw I'm thinking of trading in my Powermatic for the Canadian Green Machine.
I own a Grizzly G5959 table saw, 12" blade, 5HP motor with right tilt, Bies. fence clone with 52" cut on a custom made HTC mobile base. Have adapted a Woodhaven router table mounted on 12/4 hard maple runners bolted to the fence rails. I recently built a cabinet to reside under the router for blade and bit storage. It is mounted to the runners under the router table with threaded inserts so I can remove the cabinet if need arises. I'm not a professional woodworker, just an extreme hobbyist who likes to think big.
Don Z.
I hava a powermatic 66 with an excalibur fence. Nice saw but the table isn't flat & powermatic wouldn't fix it.
This is turning into a US clunker-fest. I'll mention one for the European style saw fans out there. I own a Wadkin CP15.
However, I notice that Powermatic have finally ventured to dip their corporate toe into the twentieth century with their new sliding table saw offerings-- they're out and available now, in this year of 2002. No doubt Delta will be hard on their heels, if the hand typed telegram message reaches them before 1960 AD. They'll need to get their digital full colour abacus, slide rule, and their logarithmic tables out to pull off an engineering masterpiece to keep up with the crowd. Slainte.
Sgian, I agree sliding table saws are a fine piece of machinery however they are not the answer to every woodworkers dream and since European's are incapable of building a decent cabinet saw we will just have to deal with the US clunker-fest table saws.
I don't agree that Europeans can't make 'cabinet' style saws, as the link below should illustrate. At the top of the page linked to is a machine from Axminster that's remarkably similar to a US contractor style saw, the BTS10, at about $400-- I'd class it as an entry level machine. At the bottom of the page you'll see a couple of machines from Sedgwick that might fit in approximately at the Powermatic 'cabinet' saw grade.
These machines are most commonly known as ripping saws, table saws, and bench saws in the UK. The US term cabinet saw, as I understand it, refers to the cabinet that houses the motor, trunnion, etc., rather than being a reference to their use by 'cabinet' makers.
My guess for why these saws aren't seen much in the American market-- I've seen one or two Wadkins of this type-- is probably because the US market is already well supplied with this style made by 'domestic' manufacturers such as Powermatic, Delta, Jet, etc., so why bother competing? The sliding table saw market was not catered for at all by US makers 10- 20 years ago, and (again I'm guessing) I suspect that the European makers of this saw style perceived there was a gap in the market that could be exploited.
I wonder sometimes if some in the US get the impression that this (the slider) is the only type of European saw. Through my many years of using European ripping/bench/table saws I can personally guarantee that this is not the case. Slainte.
Axminster
Some stuff I've made.
Sir Slainte,
I agree with your statements. I was in a woodshop in Bolivia back in September and there were 7 or 8 BIG machines there, all German made. Included a sliding table saw, huge sliding shaper, jointers and bandsaws all of great proportions. I asked the owner what about the U.S. machines. He laughed and said "they are no match for the Germans". I asked if he heard of Northfield. He laughed and said "well maybe Northfield is a match". He told me most of the woodshop owners he knows all use German machinery.
During my visit there only 2 workers were on machines the other 20+ workers were using chisels and planes. They were commissioned to do several Louis XV and Louis XVI dining room sets for Japanese clients. He told me the Japanese were his biggest buyers.
Lar
Sgian,
I wonder sometimes if some in the US get the impression that this (the slider) is the only type of European saw.
Yep, that be me, partly based on a summer spent in Germany and having never seen a table saw that looked like it was worth anything. Maybe I didn't look in the right place. In the 80's some company imported cabinet style saws made in Switzerland, (not Inca) I happened upon a display at a tool show in Chicago. They far surpassed anything I had ever seen then or since. Unfortunatly the importer went under before I had a chance to get my hand on one.
Thanks for the link to axminister, looks interesting.
im looking to move up to a bigger one .has anyone ever tried the dewalt 746?. it seems to have a lot of nice features. it looks like a well built machine.
thanks
framer
I ended up buying the Jet JTAS promo package this weekend, with a 10% show discount on top of the package. (note to self, make room in the garage) They also had one of the super saws there. I really liked what they did with the cast iron sliding table, but why the cheap fence? I went to move it and it jumped the track and came off. Why not use the exacta instead of inventing something new and cheap?
As for the Dewalt, I have never been impressed with the flimsy fence system they use.
I have a Rockwell unisaw (1.5 HP Baldor motor). Saw dates from 1978 and I bought it about 15 years ago for $700. A few years ago I added a Bies fence to it. Haven't done anything else to it. Don't know much about the newer saws but I'd be lost without this old work horse.
I own an industrial green Canadian General 350 & it's been great.
Hi
Wow??? I'm a little suprised.
I do work in a shop that has deltas, powermatics and a general. People go to the general last. It's in good working order. but it's not a powermatic. I own a general contracter saw. and It's ok
john g
John,
I'm a little surprised myself. Of the 3, I think the general is the better saw, but that's just my opinion. It certainly is no less of a saw then the other two. Makes me wonder what the saw has been put through to get that kind of rating. I know as a contractor, I've seen idiots destroy tools of mine and think nothing of it so if the saw isn't up to par, I don't believe it's the saws failing or fault.
Don
PS...For sure the fence and miter are better then the 66's.
Edited 11/20/2002 10:09:34 PM ET by Don C.
but it's not a powermatic
I'm glad it's not.
Lar
Are you talking about the contracter saw I have?
The big problem is I wish it was a Powermatic. Because if it was then I could get a biesmier splitter for it. Also the saws rear arbor drifts into the fence as you lower the blades about 6-9 thousanths, so before I made a master gauge like gauge for the saw I would hike the blade all the way up align the blade, lower it and burn wood "bad" (without a splitter buy the way). I ended up compensating by leaving the blade out at the top to compensate for the saws drift. I bought the thing from Juniors Tools real cheap, and I made it work. The biesier splitter for the powermatic might work on the my general because the general mounting brackes look identical to the powermatic (so does everything else, It's a copy of the 64a) but if there not the same I end up with a splitter ($124), I can probably return it right. Also junior carried the general line for about 8 months then dropped them, got into financial problems and sold itself. Bad business desisions I guess... I still don't use a splitter.
john g
Edited 11/22/2002 1:22:04 PM ET by john
John,
No, I have the General 350 cabinet saw and have never had the problems you describe as having. I use DML blades on it and have never left a burned mark on Cherry or maple, the two woods I work with mostly.
Contact General about using the Powermatic Splitter, if everything lines up I suppose you could use it. If not, you should be able to return it.
Good Luck,
Lar
I think Bies makes a spliter that fits various TSs...don't know if General is one of those though...
Excalibur products are made for and fit the General.
BG - Don C. is correct!!!
HI Lar
I've used a tool to align my saw so I know whats wrong, just not what could cause it and short of completely reassembling the arbor and hoping that would fix it. As far as blades I use woodworker I and II.
As far as the blade guard said they don't make one for my saw, I think they would know if it fit another saw. Like I said I made it work. just no guard until I get another saw.
I don't want to try and return a 300lb saw to canada!?!?! I wonder what UPS would be. I'm in so. cal.
Buy the way almost any saw can pass the nickle test while ripping, never tried to stand a dime on end.
john g
John,
Contact General and tell them your problem, they should be able to offer some suggestions. I can't blame you, I wouldn't want to have to ship a 300lb. machine either.
http://www.general.ca/
Good Luck,
Lar
Lar I'm sorry
I already did contact them and basically they had no idea what it could be. Anyway they sent me a rear trunnion. I didn't see how it could be the rear trunion, so when I installed it, there was no difference I wasn't surprised. The only reason I figured out that it moved when I lowered the blade was because of that tool I made.
john g
John - sorry to hear you haven't had any luck yet. Have you tried any Excalibur product? Have you contacted Biesmier and asked about using their splitter on the General table saw?
Lar
Lar,
I have exchanged e-mails with a General 350 owner in Arizona, and he has installed a beismeyer splitter on his 350, and swears by its effectiveness. I am actually considering purchasing one to put on my 350 in the not too distant future.
Paul
Excalibur does make one for the general. There's a short ditty on it in this months American Woodworker. Cost is 90 some dollars. The Merlin Spliter, 1-800-357-4118.
Don
Edited 11/27/2002 8:38:05 AM ET by Don C.
Currently running three Unisaws and a PM 66. The Unisaws are vintage '41, '55 and '97. The PM 66 is an '85. The '41 and '55 are 3hp, the '97 and PM 66 are 5hp, all 3 phase. Two of the Unisaws are side-by-side connected with a Unifence front rail. Provides right and left tilt ability. An Exactor sliding table is on the left saw. The PM 66 is rarely used.
I don't see how you get left and right tilt ability with that setup. They both look like right tilt saws to me.
41" rip capacity to the left on the right saw. The lumber is on the top side of a bevel cut, waste on the bottom. The right tilt, left tilt debate depends on which side of the blade you like to work on. If your sliding table is on the left, a left tilt saw is BullS--t for bevel cuts. If you work right of the blade then left tilt is ok if that's what you like.
Dave Koury
I don't disagree with your bevel cut sliding table theory however ripping stock is a different story. About the only time I need a bevel cut is during a ripping operation and usually I hook up a power feeder to assure a straight true cut,left tilt is a must in that situation. Besides bevel cross cuts are more easly done with a sliding head miter saw.
So are you saying you need a power feeder for a straight bevel rip or a left tilt to use the feeder? Last I checked my feeder worked on either side of the blade and if you can get a straight rip with the blade at 90 degrees to the table you also should with the blade tilted. I suppose my point is that one can can rip with the fence to the left of the blade with a right or left tilt saw. With a left tilt, mitered bevel cuts should be done on the right of the blade. A sliding miter saw can't handle all your long bevel cuts. I'm sure I'll think of more pros and cons later.
Dave Koury
Long bevel rip cuts need a power feeder period. I glue up a lot of staved columns in my stair work. A power feeder produces flawless joints on 12 foot long columns. True you could do it on a right tilt saw as well, however it seems backwards and unless you have a power feeder down right dangerous. I have both left and right tilt saws, given a choice I'll bevel rip with the left tilt everytime.
Is there any chance your blade was hollow ground? That would account for the dial indicator moving as you rasied and lowered the blade. I've thought before about making up a flat disc for TS tuneups where no blade teeth or grinding methods would interfere. Just a though.
Don
doesn't matter whitch blade I use. freud, forrest. beside If it were a hollow ground blade (new to me) it would not be burning wood after set properly.
john g
John,
I haven't read everything here, so I don't know if this has been covered, but I have oodles of oak I bought off a guy closing shop. Almost all of it closes up after cutting. Burns all the time regardless of the saw. Follow behind it with other boards, and their fine. I'm not suggesting this is your problem. Just covering the bases that someone is not thinking that burned wood necessarily means an alignment problem.
Don
Don C.
You are correct, blade burn may not be a saw problem. I do a lot of birdseye and figured grain work and it almost always produces blade burn. It's gotten to the point where I'll rip slightly oversized then re rip to the correct width, no burn marks. I normally don't have a problem with plain lumber but then there is always the board with reaction grain or the one that has drying defects, it will burn no matter what you do.
Don, Sounds like that oak wasn't properly dried. Don't know what you can do to compensate for it's movement, other than being careful and using a splitter.
Jeff
Don, you trying too hard.
I know what stressed wood is, And maple is my favorite wood. I know how to feed it, some times it burns anyway. maple moves alot and it tries to grab blades all the time. Heres another example happened today I adjusted the blade height with a zero clearance insert the blade started to hit the side untill i fed wood through, then it quieted down. Also with the woodworker I, it's carbide tips are at a + 5* I think, with the woodworker II the clearence is fine it stops about 1/8" below the table. the woodworker I hit the bottom arbor assembly that really pissed me off, I think because the carbide tips are not leaning forward so much the blade is slightly bigger. seriosly that tight clearence. I didn't know till I almost distroyed my blade turning it on, it wouldn't move. It's a general contracter saw for others reading this post.
john g
Jeff and John,
This oak I have is just a poor quality cut of wood. I got it for a couple of bucks a board which made it well worth it. It will end up on the walls of some bar or restaurant which it is fine for. Don't think it would be worth a darn for furniture or fine woodworking.
Don
O.K I can understand people wanting to use the powermatic over a general (even though i think they're both equal) but why would you take a delta over a general? I own a general 350 and i have done a lot of sawing with a unisaw, and while the unisaw is alright, i'd take my general over it any day.
some people say that the nickle test is the ultimate test to see how smooth a saw runs. one day i was ripping some 3" maple and just for fun i wanted to see if my saw could pass the nickle test (i actually used a dime) while i was cutting something. guess what, a dime balanced on my saw while i ripped about 50 bf of 3" maple. oh, my saw is also on a mobile base. now if this saw is still running that smooth after 25 -30 years general must be doing something right.
I wonder if anyone has used Jet, Delta, General and Powermatic extensively and could give an unbiased opinion (I know that's tough to do) as to which, if any, is the best and why. Except for the General, they all come off the same line so I doubt there are any significant differences. Am I right or wrong?
Jeff
General 350 with bies fence. Extremely happy with all my General equipment.
RT Delta Unisaw with Beismeyer Fence (Sure like the looks of the new HTC Fence, thought) with HTC Outfeed table and a Bench Dog Router Table in place of the case iron extension table. 3 HP Porter Cable Router under the Bench Dog.
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1927
A Grizz 1023SL. I love the left tilt saw and this baby is solid as a rock. I researched a great deal prior to buying this saw and still think it's as good as others costing twice as much. Not all Grizzly tools are this good but this is a winner. I have a tool or two from them I would love to send back and kick the guy in the head that bought them. Unfortunately, I ain't that flexible anymore.
Bought a new 3hp left tilt Jet in July. No complaints (so far) and I'm really impressed with how smoothly and quietly it works; fit and finish are very good. Was a bit hesitant about the stock fence, would have preferred something with a micro-adjuster, but the fence functions very well and is surprisingly easy to adjust.
Jeff
Rocky, I'm late to jump on the bandwagon here but I have to wonder why you asked about table saws when you state that you have a contractors saw. Essentially, there are three kinds of saws of this class and type. They are table, (small and fits on a table or easily packs up in the back of your truck). Contractors saws, (supposed to be portable but are usually to heavy to be lugging from job to job), and cabinet saws, (definitly not portable and primarily used in ... yes you guessed it, cabinet shops).
If you are interested in a table saw then check out the 15amp Bosch or the Makita. Those would be my first choices. I actually have the Makita and its a gem.
I have a Rockwell Unisaw, 3hp, 1980 vintage. I both love it and hate it. I'd get a sliding table model to keep up with the texas pro, but then what would I do with the one I have?
Use it for what the inherent design limitations let it do best of course, Jeff-- ripping, cutting tenons, working rebates, etc., ha, ha. One common name for this style of saw outside the US, as I mentioned earlier, is a ripping saw- also known as a bench or table saw, both terms again used outside the US. The frequently used term, in the US anyway, 'slider' also translates into the term 'dimension saw' in UK parlance-- I can't say for elsewhere in the world.
There are, as I'm sure you are aware, many specialised saws out there, including upcut snip-of saws, gang rip saws, vertical panel saws, horizontal beam panel saws, etc., and I've used most of them at one time or another in my working life. Naturally, only those operations large enough to justify such specialised tools own and use them. The rest of us, as small professional woodworkers and hobbiests, have to get by with one primary saw that has to fulfil a multitude of roles. In the US, the most likely choice is a 'contractor' or 'cabinet' saw-- there are lots of aftermarket gizmo's that make the basic tool more useful. In the UK, I'd hazard that probably most workers aspire to a 'dimension' saw, the US 'slider'. Slainte.Some stuff I've made.
Sgian
I'll join you with a vote for the European saws. I have a Scheppach TKU used mainly as a rip saw & on occasions that demand it, as a site saw as its got the outrigger & sliding carrage. However my everyday saw is an Altendorf F45 sliding table. The quickest way to get a straight edge is on a 'slider' & as kitchen manufacture makes up about 2/3 of my work they're pretty handy in that area too.
Cheers
Don
General Cabinet, Craftsman contractor saws
#1 Saw . 50s vintage Unisaw, replaced the motor 3 years ago with a 3hp Baldor, put on a Delta unigard, 50"unifence, Forrest blade with stabilizer. Is my main saw.
I found it about 20 yrs ago for $400 in a horse barn, rust red, cleaned up real nice. I replaced the main bearings last year.
The saw had been in a window shop making aluminum sash. I still have the metal cutting blade, cleaned off the rust and crud a few years ago, guess what, it was a Forrest Blade for cutting non ferrous metal. I never tried to use it, rather heavy cut.
It was interesting that the new fence and guard system bolted right up.
#2 Saw. Ryobi 3500 for my move about job saw, not being moved about much anymore. Great little saw. Should sell it.
Curt
1995 RT Unisaw w/ 50" Biesemeyer commercial fence, 3 hp Marathon motor, original belts (the older they get, the smoother they run). I'll have this saw for life, and hopefully pass it on to one of my two boys.
Be seeing you...
A 1950's Uni-saw with a Biesmeyer fence and Robland slider. Dr. Frankenstein would be proud.
Glendo.
Delta Platinum Edition Unisaw: 3-hp, right-tilt, 52" Unifence, and a plaque with my name on it.
I just recently picked up a Delta Limited Edition 10" Contractors Saw with the Biesmeyer fence. Nice piece of "iron" overall.
A guy I work with, who is into cabinet making, bought a Unisaw last year and now wishes he'd bought one of these instead.
He says nothing against the Unisaw, just a lot more money spent where he might not have had to.
View Image
This is a picture of my Craftsman 10" contractor saw. Contrary to some things you hear the fence will stay parallel to the blade and it passes the nickel test and cuts very well. I also have a router table in the left extension wing. (I use loctite when assembling 5 years ago this month).
Bart,
I think a lot of the complaints about Craftsman saws come from the older models. I've used the newer one like yours and agree that the fence system is accurate and easy to use.
Jeff
Bart,
I have two saws, one of which is the same craftsman contractors saw you have. I have no complaints about the saw either, and with the included mobile base and the cast iron router extension table(which I don't use) it's a great saw for the price. I got mine on sale with an extra 10% craftsman club discount. The saw was about $375 and I'll stack it against any other saw in that price range with complete confidence. JMO, but I think craftsman gets unfairly bashed too often. Some deserved, yes, most not though.
Don
Hi Bart, I think I have the exact set up as you do, and I agree that the fence and saw are fine. To the best of my knowledge craftsman does not have the exacta rip fence w/ the aluminum handle and the micro adjust w/ teeth. The new ones offered have plastic and a rubber thingy that does the micro adjust.
I have a question for you though, I think I saw in a Sears catalogue mail out , probably a year or two ago, solid cast iron wings for the table saws to replace the webbed ones. Do you recall ever seeing them? I have tried the on line catalogue to no avail, but I have not tried contacting Sears directly.
Sears has wings that are the same size as the webbed wings. They are not listed for my saw. I don't know if they are drilled the same but that can be fixed with a drill. The 2002 & 2003 Power & Hand Tools catalog lists them as a part number 18637 $69.99. According to Sears the saws they fit are 22831-39-41-49-51-59, 2418-25, 29065, 29803-14-15-24, and 24168. If you have the web wings you might want to hang onto them you can clamp through them for jigs & feather-boards etc. When I grew up my Dad had a Craftsman contractors saw that was made in 1957 other then the bottom case & adjustment handles & fence the guts & table top are exactly the same as our saws.
Edited 11/20/2002 7:49:24 PM ET by Bart
Thank you for the reply, and I have used the wings in just the manner you described.
here's a few picts of my 'Versatile Saw' - bought new in 1982 - made in New Hampshire. It has a rolling arbor- the blade/arbor/motor assembly roll on a carriage - with a 10" blade you have up to 18" of cut-off capability - carriage locks in three different positions, 2 hp Baldor, will accept a 12" blade, good self aligning fence - - ripped 1600 lin ft of 3X3 hardwood @45* once - if I had to do it again, I think I would farm it out to a someone with power feed - $1340 when unisaws were $800 - I've never regretted having it - just a sweet tool -
Hi Rocky, At work we use a Delta 5hp LT with Biesemeyer fence, at home I use a Delta 3HP Unisaw RT with Unifence.
Paul
Delta Limited Edition Contractors saw with 30" Bies. I try not to be too desirous of cabinet saws when i see how effortlessly they slice through thick stock. Truth is, my con saw does everything i ask it to and does it well. I flirted briefly with the unifence but went back to the Bies. I've also added a second cast-iron wing, link belt and forrest blade and will probably convert the motor to 230 when i upgrade the elec in my shop.
Peace,
kevin
Craftsman 10" contractor's saw with two extension wings, (cast iron and MDF), and the "premium" rail system with "self-aligning" fence. The self-aligning fence.. self aligns itself an eighth of an inch proud every time you shove material against it during a cut. The blade trues to 90 if you don't run it up higher than three inches.. after that it leans away just a skosh. All in all.. not bad for an $800 dollar saw. But I bought it this past summer before I knew a contractor's saw from a cabinet saw, (actually, before I'd even *heard* of a cabinet saw), and before I knew anything about what constitutes a good Table Saw. At least I lucked into a belt driven saw.. and let the sales guy talk me into buying a mobile base for it. To show you how "green" I was.. I nearly fainted when I drove around to "pick up" and they wheeled out two big boxes.. one with the saw, extensions and base, and one with the rails and fence. I had no idea it wouldn't already be assembled. It took me two full days to get it put together. I mounted the motor upside down the first time.. and only realized my mistake when I couldn't make the belt fit right. But I learned so much about a T/S from that experience.. and have learned so much about this particular saw through two big projects.. that I would be loathe to ever give it up. I may someday own a Powermatic or some other piece of T/S exotica.. but my trusty old (new) Craftsman will always be with me.
bill
The saying "they just don't make them like they used to" is more real than you might think. If there is anyway to get an older machine, please do so you will not be disappointed. They were built better, do the same things a new one does. They didn't skimp on materials.
Newer does not always mean better, in fact now of days rarely does. We should listen to all these old woodworkers who continually tell us, they just don't make them like they used to.
Sorry I can't comment on any of the newer saws, because it makes me kind of sick to my stomach when I see the quality compared to how we used to make them. Shouldn't we improve as we go along??
Tom,
I think your sentiments are pretty much accepted by most concerning most things, but as far as motors go, I'll take a new one any day.
Don
Hi Don,
I was lucky my Rockwell had a 16amp new Baldor Motor on it. I would take a USA Baldor Motor over any Taiwanese Made Motor, which I believe is where the newer Delta ones come from. I never thought I would have the thoughts I do, as I am only 32 years old, but whats obvious cannot be avoided. I hope you are pleased w/ whatever you eventually get.
Rocky,
I have a jet cabinet saw that is about 5.5 yrs old and I have been extremely pleased with it. It is rugged,accurate, and powerful and has been completely trouble free. I also have a ryobi for site work (mainly because it is light and has its own stand). I am ageneral contractor/architectural woodworker so I probably use my saws more than most of you (excluding full time professionals). Buy the best you can afford, however I don't think you will go wrong with the delta, jet or powermatic. I can't speak for the quality of the general but I just purchased an 18" general bandsaw and had to do a lot of tweaking to get it to work right. Their manual is a joke and if a person is not mechanically inclined they would have a heck of a time getting one of them to perform. Overall I think my saw is well made but a lot of things were way out of adjustment, the drive pulley setscrew was loose, the motor mounting system had to be modified and the instructions regarding putting it together were nonexistant. I can't say that I will ever buy another general tool.
Mark
I have a Rockwell 10" with a 5-HP, 3 phase motor.
I have a vintage 1942 unisaw. I love it. I am in the process of putting a unifence on it. It has a 1hp 1725rpm motor on it that runs smooth as glass. I will never part with it.
Steve
Hi Steve, I have a Beisemeier Fence on mine. The fence that came with the saw was terrible.
I have the original fence on it right now. I am waiting to receive the screws that attach the unifence rail to the tableboard. The original fence is rock solid but I need the 52" rip capacity. I sold my Grizzly contractors saw and used the money to buy this saw. Overall I have about $190.00 into it.
Steve
I have the Ridgid TS3612. It's a contractor saw and it's left tilt. I'm pretty much a novice and I can't convince the wife, yet, that I need a Powermatic 66 :)
Michael
I recently bought a Grizzly 1023 left tilt cabinet saw for $950 delivered. A great deal and an excellent saw. Everything set up fine and works great, except for the blade guard. I'm trying to make myself keep the it on. It seems to be in the way more than not.??????
With the exception of the European machines, stock table saw guards are useless. A number of companies now make overhead guards, but they're a bit pricey. Consider making your own. Here are a couple links to some nice plans:
http://www.wwforum.com/faqs_articles/overarm_guard.html
http://www.netexperts.cc/~lambertm/Wood/guard.html
Jeff
Thanks! I'll definately look into the sites you gave.
I have a powermatic contractor saw. It meets all my needs 100%.
I really like it. good luck.
i have a little old- about 20 yrs- inca 259 that i bought (lightly) used for $600- it came with virtually every single piece of optional eqpt ever available- you name it, i got it- long rails, mortiser, extra tables, sliding table, 2hp baldor, forrest 10x60 ww1, etc. i then proceeded to completely trick it out- extra long, 75" fence with in/outfeed support, dust port, zero-clearance insert (no small feat of engineering- ask anybody who owns one), etc.
i also have an older robland x31 with all the extras- also seldom used by a wealthy hobbyist looking to trade up to a felder combo (i have $2500 in that one vs. about $7500 new).
for barely 3 grand i've got easily over $10,000 worth of top notch euro equipment, you just have to know where to look. i'm not rich, just very resourceful ;) and you don't know what luxury is until you can build cabinets with a brace of tablesaws- being able to have two constant fence settings, different blade types, whatever you need.
mitch
I have a 1938 Delta Unisaw. That's right folks, an oldie with "the Cast Iron Feet." The feet were only made until 1938 when they went to the cast iron base. The serial number is D368, which according to a friend who knows this kind of stuff, means it was the 368th Unisaw built.
I found it rusted almost beyond recognition six years ago in an unheated shed. The guy wanted $125 for it. I would have felt bad taking it at that price, but I didn't know if I could get it back in shape. It took about 2 months of hard work, but now it looks great and runs even better. I kept the original fence that works great. I've used the fancy new fences on my friend's machines, but a new Bies. just wouldn't look right on this old girl. Her 1.5 hp motor runs on 110 and with a Forest WW II blade, I've never felt it was under powered.
Brandon Ford, on the beach at Lincoln City, OR.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Inca saws. I have a Inca 2200 that I like very much. I've used 66s and Unisaws too, both fine machines. I think many people's preferences aren't based on one saw being better than anothe as much as personal preferences. Some like the heavy feel of a 66.
My dream machine would be my 2200 with a Paralock fence.
Eric in Oakland
1967 3HP LT Unisaw w/ 52" Unifence. Still runs as smooth as the day it was made. Had it 8 years and I'm the third owner. Only downside is the lack of dust collection. Delta doesn't make a motor cover or bottom plate for this old beauty. I'd like to hear from some of you who have solved this problem.
I've got a 1975 unisaw. I could have purchased a dust cover from Delta for my saw but they were pretty expensive (over $100). Also you can build one out of plywood. I went to a local machine shop ( metal fabrication shop) and they made a dust cover for me out of steel for about $40. I painted it myself and it looks identical to a Delta cover.
I haven't posted on this question because I felt I was Biased, but here goes.
I rent shop space from a flooring company that I do work for. There is 3 contractor saws I can use a Jet, Delta and pm. All are out over a 1/4" from the fence to the miter slots. I have a Delta at home that I use very little, its out to, but not as bad. Its seems like a lot of other people have the same problem.
Do you think when someone asks which saw to buy we say no to contractor type saws and tell them the truth that it is bad design?
If they save a little more and get a cabnet stile saw they can have it for a life time and never have to upgrade it.
Jeff in so cal
68 f---57% high clouds
Edited 12/5/2002 5:17:58 PM ET by FLOMAN47
Edited 12/5/2002 8:18:31 PM ET by FLOMAN47
I have General 350 table saw with a Delta Unifence and a Excalibur sliding table. I've had the saw for about 15 years and it has been problem free since day 1. I don't use it to make living, only as a hobby machine (but well used). One very nice feature it has that the others do not, is when you tilt the blade the distance to the fence does not change, if you set the fence to 6" when the blade is 90 degrees it is 6" at 45 degree, it makes life a little simpler. I think you can't go wrong if you go green.
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