Fellow Woodworkers:
I am trying to secure plans to build a tall clock. I have the wood ready to go (air dried black walnut) and access to a complete shop, plus I am retired so I have the time!
If anyone can provide me with a source for some tall clock plans, I would certainly appreciate it.
Thanks and have a great holiday. Bob Weber aka “Spiderweb”
Replies
Glen Huey's "Building Period Furniture" has plans for a Pennsylvania Tall Case Clock. It doesn't supply full measured drawings. It does have exploded diagrams, a full cut list, and on the DVD that comes with the book full size templates for some of the shaped elements. There are also illustrated suggestions for how to proceed, should you need them. The book was published by PWW in 2006.
Jim
I built a Tall Case clock featured in Fine Woodworking, and available on line. The two part article is by Lonnie Bird. It is a bit complicated and the article was hard to follow in spots. Truth be told, Mr. Bird was very unhelpful in clearing up some of the confusion. He even wanted me to pay him to explain some of the fuzzy instructions in his article! Can you believe it?? Glen Huey was able to help me via e-mail, so I did complete the clock. If you go with the Lonnie Bird clock, you're on your own...but we here at Knots may be able to help, even if Mr. Bird won't . If you go with the Glen Huey clock, Mr. Huey, an gentleman and true woodworker will be very helpful. Your choice.
The two part article is by Lonnie Bird. It is a bit complicated and the article was hard to follow in spots. Truth be told, Mr. Bird was very unhelpful in clearing up some of the confusion. He even wanted me to pay him to explain some of the fuzzy instructions in his article! Can you believe it?? Glen Huey was able to help me via e-mail, so I did complete the clock. If you go with the Lonnie Bird clock, you're on your own...but we here at Knots may be able to help, even if Mr. Bird won't .
Basically what you are saying is that if you submit an article for publication at FWW you should be on call 24/7 to answer emails and phone calls from people who cannot figure out some of the omitted details in the article? The article was just that, a magazine article, not a full scale plan. It was designed to get you close, but some knowledge or improvisation is required on your part. You cannot fit every tiny detail in an article of that size, even if it spans 2 or 3 issues. What Lonnie told you was if you needed to know every detail, then take his 2 week class on building the clock. He wasn't trying to charge you for "fuzzy" explanations. The guy has a family, and like me, his time at home is sacred. I'm glad Glen could help you out, but rest assured that when the volume of calls and emails reaches the number that Lonnie fields, Glen will scale back his replies just the same.
It's unfathomable that you feel you should receive one on one personal instruction from someone who wrote a magazine article.
Lee
How about asking for a hardware list? He refused to provide me with one! Is that request "unfathomable"? His rudeness to me was totally unexpected, and uncalled for. He was able to find enough time to reply sarcastically, ask for money and belittle me...but not to provide a hardware list, or clarify a measuring error in the article. BTW, I am an experianced woodworker, and despite your claim to the contrary, I didn't find the plans all that complicated. I wanted to know where he got his hardware, and for Mr. Bird to acknowledge a measuring error. Some people are gracious, others...not so much.
Good for you, Lee. I was thinking exactly the same thing, and then I saw your response to this freeloafer. Imagine the nerve of a professional woodworker trying to get paid for his/her work. What Gaul!!
I can just imagine how the pissing contest went between this goof and Messer Bird.
What many folks who read the magazine don't understand is that the fine lad's and lasses who write for the magazine get paid just about $4.00 per hour for their articles, when all things are considered. Many of them do is so they can get some great exposure so that they can sell admissions to their classes, etc.... I know you this, but it bares to mention it here, since some folks are obviously completely in the dark regarding how things are done in the real world. Nothing is free, unfortunately.
Hope you are having a terrific holiday season, and are busier than I am. Maybe I should just offer some free classes in the workshop on getting free hardware lists!
Jeff
Jeff,
I was fortunate in that last year (2007) was a good year for me and I had 2 week-long classes booked at Lonnie's school this past summer. Can't tell you how much I enjoyed being able to stand next to someone as accomplished as Lonnie with 30 years experience and have some one-on-one tutoring.
Thus the reason I refuse to stand by and let Doc run Lonnie through the ringer for something that most professional ww'ers would agree is standard practice. Lonnie is the spokesman for Amana (in addition to doing new product development), he teaches about 16 week long classes a year at his school, and he has a wife and 2 kids. Prior to opening the woodworking school at his home he was a woodworking teacher at a community college in Ohio. I can't imagine he made a huge fortune doing that, so my hat's off to him if he is making a good living now.
As for me, I'm in the midst of a large kitchen but I can't say I have any irons in the fire when this job wraps up. I hope the holidays are good for you - did the kids come home from college for Christmas? Any ice on the pond?
Take care,
Lee
The kids are home, and the pond is frozen......with one problem. About 2 feet of wet, heavy snow. No outdoor skating this year, at least for a while. My son asked me if he could plow it with the bobcat...I laughed my but off. I don't know what it would cost to get a hauler out here to haul my bobcat out of the pond, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be cheap.
I'm glad you enjoyed Lonnie's class. I have heard from others that he is quite a nice guy, although I've never met him myself.
Take care,
Jeff
I agree with Docblake. If Mr Bird writes an article he should be willing to assist those that seek additional information or help. The article is not an advertisement. If Mr Bird feels the article entitles him to charge for clarifications he should rather not write and publish. Better for him to buy an advertisement form FWW and then we will all Know what his position is.
Are you guys serious? Writing an article leaves you resposible to answer every woodworker in the worlds questions? For a period of how long? What if I want to build the clock in 10 years - should Lonnie answer my questions with kindness and compassion even though I call in the middle of his kid's birthday party?
Let's look at what you guys are complaining about:
A mis-print or mistake (maybe on Lonnie's part, maybe not) in the article pertaining to a measurement. If you found the mistake, can you fix it without his help? You want Lonnie to ACKNOWLEDGE his mistake? What difference does that make? People make mistakes all the time. What if FWW printed a correction 3 issues later? Have you seen where the corrections get posted? A little tiny spot at the very bottom of the first page or so after the index. If you are an accomplished woodworker, and you can spot the mistake, then you should be able to fix it or improvise without the help of the author, no matter who it is.
The hardware: I went back and looked at the article just to freshen up my facts. The hardware for the clock consists of:
The movement and face (which is listed at the bottom of the first article installment where to get). So I will assume you are not talking about that when you say "where to get the hardware"
The rest of the hardware for the clock consists of:
A pull for the hood (glass) door, and 2 hinges for this door as well
A half-mortise lock for the mid-section door, and 2 hinges for this door also.
Lonnie states in the article: "You will need to use special hinges for lipped doors"
DO YOU MEAN TO TELL ME YOU CAN'T FIND A PULL, A HALF MORTISE LOCK, AND 4 HINGES FOR LIPPED DOORS WITHOUT THE HELP OF LONNIE BIRD?
Sorry, you don't seem so accomplished to me.
Lee
Bravo! I couldn't have said it better myself. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
I can understand the problem with finding correct hinges for a clock. Lipped door hinges for a clock are not the same as the ones you would find in most hardware stores. Those are hinges for lipped doors such as kitchen cabinets.
You need to order special hinges for clock doors, and a first glance these look the same as regular ones. I glanced over the article and see no mention of this but the construction of the door requires these hinges, and although you can get regular hinges to work it will be a pain. The offsets are different and change the arc of the swing. (Like I said I just glanced at the article so I may have missed something there.)
here is an example of what I'm talking about http://www.ballandball.com/hinges_clock_tallcase.html
I have never dealt with Lonnie bird so I can't comment on his tact. But there was also mention that he was sarcastic in his response. While I agree Lonnie should not be require to walk someone through his articles and help them build it. Common decency should be given. A response to the original posters questions should have been something along the lines of:
Thank you for your interest in my article. I purchased my hardware from store ABC. I am not aware of any error in the plans and hope the error did not prevent you from continuing the project. Unfortunately the time required to answer your other questions would prevent me from completing my scheduled work. If you need in depth help with the project I am available for consultations, my current rate is $x.xx per hour.
If Lonnie was truly sarcastic in his answer and rude in his response the original poster has a right to be upset. I don't think asking where hardware was purchased from an unreasonable request. But I do agree that asking someone a question along the line of how to machine the door step by step is a bit much.
TalmaLike mapleman, I am an active student of Lonnie's. I've taken two classes and will attend my third in May. I would LOVE to see the email response that the original poster received from Lonnie. I'd be willing to wager that it politely but directly told him that his question was too detailed to answer properly in an email and offered the person an invitation to attend the school and learn from Lonnie. The original poster tried this exact same complaint last year or the year before, and is simply unwilling to accept that Lonnie Bird does not have the time nor is he obligated to teach woodworking via email to anyone who asks. Some folks have an over-developed sense of entitlement. I would be stunned if Lonnie's reply to the man was rude in it's tone and wording. I would imagine that it was direct and not the answer he wished to receive, and therefore was interpreted to be rude or sarcastic.
I went to Lonnie's school the first time because I wanted to attend a woodworking school and increase my skills. I return each year because Lonnie does an OUTSTANDING job of running the school, teaching and fellowshipping with his students. He is an excellent teacher who passes on to his students his 30 years of experience. His school provides students with a great education in woodworking and the benefit of learning from a gifted teacher, woodworker and a very pleasant person to boot. Lonnie is a person of the highest caliber. I would recommend his school to anyone who wishes to learn more about this great craft we all enjoy. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Hey Maple
Actually, he uses Ball and Ball for his desk and clock. I called B and B and they had the list of required brass all in one list to make it easy for them. Maybe a call to the order section at Ball and Ball would help.
I didn't see it listed as "Lonnie Bird" brass but a phone call will get you going. Lonnie is kind enough to make his special order hinges for the desk/bookcase available to the public - most likely a cost he had to pay to get them to make the special length/width hinges. That seems pretty nice to me??
Over the years, I have read several Knotters explaining their experiences while building the clock. Maybe a search here on Knots would put you in touch with a guy who built the clock or better yet.. maybe a guy who took the course. Bound to be someone out there .. No?
osl
Hi Dan,
Haven't seen you here in quite some time. I hope things are going well for you. As for Ball and Ball, I do know that is the company Lonnie prefers, but I wasn't aware that they were the suppliers of the clock hardware. I do also know that Lonnie has had them cast quite a bit of specialty hardware (like the hardware for his keepsake boxes) and he/they make that available to the public as well. There was probably a large cost associated with this, but I'm not sure.
Lonnie is indeed a great guy, very knowledgeable and willing to help. I've received answers to some of my questions even before I took a class from him.
In any event, how did your Bird secretary turn out? If you finished it I can't say I remember seeing any photos? How about the flintlocks? Any new work? We'd love to see it!
Lee
Hey
The first bird d/s went out the door and I am dragging the 2nd. Don't have photos here of the first one but I have a couple of things I was working before my wife got sick. Life in the hospital is winding down and it looks like I'll get back to the wood soon.
Attached photos of a longrifle and the lid piece for the desk. I found a pile of crotch walnut in the back of a barn(10years old stuff). Not cheap stuff but reasonable by my scale. Really enjoyed building the upper section but the desk can get a bit long(lots of boxes).
When I get organized.... I'll get back to knots and post a couple photos. I have to get this done to get a pass to go up to Maine this summer and build guideboat.
Dan
Dan,
Sorry to hear of your wife's illness. I hope she makes a full recovery soon so you can get back to life as normal.
That's a nice piece of crotch for the lid. You don't ususally come across those very often in that size without a ton of defects. Should make a great lid.
I have a couple of questions about the flint: Is the wood soft or hard curly maple? How hard is it to carve? I'm not sure what it's called, but the brass around the butt plate with the door - is that inlet into the wood or does it lay on top of the wood surface? Can't wait to see some finished pics - your rifles are a work of art.
Lee
The last piece of sugar maple is sitting in the corner of my shop. The rifle is a piece of sugar maple(hard). I have used red maple and sugar maple both curly and uncurly. I don't find that much difference on the carving really. You can find a whole lot more red maple and really fine cuts from red maple. I have been really lucky trading and making things for people with woodmizers over the years. Here in North Carolina, there are some impressive walnut logs from time to time. Granted, they are faster growing and a little more porous than the same tree growing in a colder area but they hold their own as far as I can tell.
Maple is another story. The logs I have bought in New Hampshire, Vermont and Maine are very dense and the curl has been outstanding. There are lots of places to get curly stock, I find mine in that area because of old friends in the maple syrup business hunting for me.
If you want to get a rifle blank or some parts, just let me know and I have a couple of suppliers that do a good job of grading. They ain't cheap.
the photo attached is a carved kentucky using red maple.
Edited 1/10/2009 2:20 pm ET by danmart
Edited 1/10/2009 2:22 pm ET by danmart
If you want to get a rifle blank or some parts, just let me know and I have a couple of suppliers that do a good job of grading. They ain't cheap.
Dan, you let me know when you start having those week-long intensive courses on rifle-building. I'm not sure I could tackle it on my own, but a class with some one-on-one instruction would be great.
Take care,
Lee
P.S. That cheek carving is sweet!
Lee,
If you need to get going before danmart begins his classes, I found Recreating the American Longrifle, Buchele, Shumway and Alexander, George Shumway publisher, to be very helpful. Step by step instructions, clear illustrations. I believe that I got my copy from Dixie Gun Works in TN. If you haven't seen their catalog, you need to get one.
Ray
Ray,
Thanks for the tip. I will check out the book before I take the plunge!
Lee
The book Ray mentioned is a great one. I have that one and many others. If you get the bug.. you can email me and I will send along some books and videos if you are willing to pay the freight. I sent along a "care package" a while back to my friend up on the north edge of NH.
Its all really fun once you shift gears a bit. I think the hardest part is fitting the buttplates just right. Like cabinetmaking, some think the dovetail is the hallmark of craftsmanship and others think the mortise and tenon is the final word. I don't know. With rifles, the buttplate done well gives me a warm fuzzy.
Included are a couple of shots of a buttplate(maple).
The walnut stock with the wire inlay is the work of Richard at Colonial Williamsburg. Its a boys rifle.
Let me know if you want to do some reading. Ha
Edited 1/13/2009 1:08 pm ET by danmart
dan,
Pretty work. Tho my experience is very limited, fitting that first ramrod tube, the one that flares open and covers the entry hole into the stock, is what gave me fits. Maybe I just was lucky with the buttplates.
Ray
Hi Ray
Get the candle out, blacken the high spots and keep the chisels/gauges sharp.
Oh be patient. Most of the time, I have 50 hours in the stock when I get to the entry pipes. Its a challenge but I've found short cuts that help.
Tip:I take a block of wood and make a cavity about like the position I want to let in the pipe. Its rough now. I take some bondo and set the greased up thimble in place. Pop the thimble out and you have nice visual picture of the cavity you are trying create.
Might help?
Those muzzlecaps can be a challenge??
later
hi dan,
Nice stuff. In lieu of the lampblack I've used blue layout dye. Very sparingly.
Your reference to bondo, and the previous post about buttplates, reminded me of the rifle kit I recently helped a young man with. He'd been given the pieces by a neighbor who'd begun work on the kit and lost interest. Much of our early work consisted of un-doing what had been done before he got the thing. When we removed the poorly fitted buttplate, showing plasticwood in the cracks between metal and wood, we found near a can of the stuff stuffed inside the cavity under the plate! Apparently the guy had packed the whole inside of the buttplate with P-wood then mashed it down and screwed it fast. Sadly, we had to resort to a similar treatment (using epoxy and sawdust) under the forend cap where the wood had been haggled off so enthusiastically that the cap just wallowed around on the end of the stock. Fortunately, none of it showed, it was all under the metal.
Have you seen the book , "Steel Canvas"?
Ray
Hey Ray
Is that the engraving book by Wilson? I think I've seen a copy not in the distant past. Lost of colored glossy shots?
Truthfully Ray I lean towards the rougher engraving on kentucky rifles. I was gettin' pretty good at the fancy stuff before my troubles set in. Engraving is like guitar and banjo pickin' in some ways. If you don't do it often and work at the "feel" you lose it.
I send along some of the "fantasy rifle" stuff to water the eyes of the readers but truthfully.. I like the stuff that looks like a guy on the edge of the frontier in the 18th century did the work. It has this magic feel about it and there are only a few guys really doing incredible work in the authentic mode.
As you know, back then competition was what drove these guys to the golden age. Many were seeing the fall of the flint and the rise of the cap lock. Many were approaching 40 years and began to loose their near vision: end of engraving- no optics.
Now a 57 year old with 30 years of fumbling around can use magnification to do work that was unthinkable when the kentucky design limits were being reached. Its a debate that comes up all the time a gatherings. I still love the work done under magnification- its still done by hand.
Soon as my wife gets her strength back I'll be back at the bench and I'll post a photo or two of the latest stuff.
later
Yah Dan, that's the book. Much of the stuff is too rich for my taste, but still you have to admire the abilities of the guys who do that level of work.
As a 56 yr old with 30 some yrs of fumbling around with furniture building, I can relate. I lost my reading glasses yesterday, and things kinda took a turn downhill thereafter.
Take care,
Ray
Hi Dan,
Thanks for the generous offer. I will take you up on it at some point in the future. Right now I have too many irons in the fire to start a new project!
That maple stock is very nice. And the silver work on that stock made by Richard is exquisite. Is the sliver wire glued in, or merely pressed/hammered in and then scraped/sanded flush and finished over? I guess what I mean to ask is, what holds the inlay in place?
Thanks,
Lee
Lee,
Go for it - take dans offer. You won't believe those flicks! Some of the most awesome woodworking you'll ever see.
That's all I'll say 'bout them - don't want to let the cat outa the bag.
On the north edge of Cow Hampsheeuh,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
The silver "wire" is actually more like a ribbon. The ribbon I use and the one Richard used is about the thickness of 2 pieces of paper.
How does it stay in? You make a trench with a special homemade tool. I make mine out of an old tiny screwdriver used for eyeglass repairs. You shape it a certain way and go. You don't cut the wood fibers like a knife- you push them back in a way. When you put the ribbon in the cavity you hold it in place by taking a moist rag and swelling the wood and locking the ribbon in place. Trim the ribbon that stands proud with a chisel.
couple shots of the work of Larry Gardner. check him out sometime on the net.
later
I think this would be a great skill/technique to feature in FWW. Garrett Hack and I talked about it and he embellishes his pieces with this type of ornamentation.
Holeeeeeeey Cow! That's incredible work. I will be sure to google mr. Gardner and his work. I also agree that this would be a great feature for the magazine. There seems to be a lot of things associated with the rifle building that cross over into what I would call "fine" woodworking. Even though it is a specialized field, I see no reason not to include some rifle work in the mag in the future.
Anatole - you listening?
Lee
http://www.artandarms.net/artist.htm
Sorry. Meant to post his site. Enjoy.
dan
If Mr Bird feels the article entitles him to charge for clarifications he should rather not write and publish.
Did you read my original response to Doc? Lonnie wasn't trying to charge him for a correction. I believe Lonnie's reply was that if Doc felt like he needed to have every detail, then he should take the class, which of course is not free.
If you were a doctor that had a television show each week giving free advice on health issues - would you feel the need to answer free health questions at your home after hours? Or would you tell the caller "make an appointment"?
And as for your statement that Lonnie should not write or publish if he is not willing to help - It's people like you and Doc that are the reason that Lonnie no longer writes for FWW magazine or just about any other magazine. Way too many headaches for such a small (read: tiny) monetary reward. The average paid for an article is not more than a couple of hundred bucks IIRC.
Lee
piel,
Better yet if the copy is proof read before publication by a qualified word tech.
The responsibility of accuracy is on the shoulders of the publishers and editors.
regards dusty
Hi Jim: Thanks for the reference....I will see if I can get the book via interlibrary loan. Take care, Spiderweb
Spidey,
http://www.sapfm.org/Newport%20Clock_wInstructions.pdf
Newport tall clock plans from SAPFM member Ed Stuckey in PDF form.
Spiderweb
Checkout Klockit.com. They have complete kits as wells as plans w or w/o hardware.
And to answer the original posters questions The plans mentioned earlier from the SAPFM web site made by Ed Stucky are great. They are for a newport clock.
You will also find the SAPFM group very helpful with all your questions. If you want to modify the clock or anything else like tat the member have lots of experiance in just that sort of thing. The group focuses on period furniture though, so if your looking for a more contempoary design they may not be as much help.
Spider..... What style clock are you looking for? I built a Walnut Shaker style tall clock. If thats to your liking, I can look up the article. It was an old Woodsmith issue. Let me know if I can help.
James
If you are still looking for clock plans I found a web site by the name of http://www.colonialtimes.com that sell plans. I too are very interested in building a grandfather clock.
About 38 years ago, I built a Mason Sullivan Clock. I had a RAS. chisels, a plane and maybe a few more tools. I had to get a lathe before I finished. I was quite proud of that clock but the day I finished it my wife was going to come get me and were going to bring it home. Instead my daughter (first child) decided to get born and I had to find another way home. Anyway the daughter decided that it was hers and now I would like to build another on - possible this winter.
Problem: I still have the plans but the company is out of business and I don't know if I could get a matching movement, face, and possible crown molding. I've heard that you should have all those on hand before you start. I think it is quite a pretty case.
I am also seeking tall case clock plans. Did you have any luck finding them along
with the proper "works" to fit the case. Bob
No luck so far Bob!Peter
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