Please let me know your thoughts on Taylor Toolworks hand tools in general.
Their current sale on hand planes has some amazing prices. If you own a Taylor Hand Plane it would be good to hear your opinion. How would you compare a Taylor Hand Plane to a Lie Nelson or Veritas Hand Plane?
Thanks
Replies
I believe they are made in India, most likely in the same plant as Woodriver, Benchdog and similar brands. They are cheap for a reason and can't compare to the quality of Lie-Nielsen or even Veritas. That doesn't mean they can't be serviceable tools, just don't expect to take them out of the box and expect them to sing. Plan on spending several hours tuning them by flattening soles, blades, etc. If this is not your cup of tea buy Lie-Nielsen or Veritas you won't regret it. If this is your first foray into hand planes I always recommend a Lie-Nielsen or Veritas because using a plane that is not properly tuned can lead you to frustration and it can be difficult to track the cause of your troubles if you don't know how a quality plane should perform. Lie-Nielsen's give solid performance right out of the box.
Thank You - That was good advice
You're welcome. Obviously it's just my opinion. If you are looking to invest in your first hand plane I strongly urge you to consider a Lie-Nielson model 62. This plane is an extremely versatile performer that can perform many different tasks from that of a scrub plane to smoother and even a small jointer. It also makes a great shooting plane especially if you pick up the hot dog accessory, while it's simple bevel up design makes it one of the most affordable Lie-Nielson planes you can buy. Search FW to find articles and videos extolling the many virtues of this versatile performer.
You can get by with a cheap jack/scrub plane. But I wouldn't buy one of those as a smoother or jointer. If the object is money, find a good older Stanley. If you can fit it in your budget, a Lie Nielsen or Veritas are well worth it.
I've had crappy tools. By the the time you've invested a lot into fixing them up and adding a good iron and chip breaker, you haven't saved much in money, and cost a lot of frustration. I've seen folks give up on hand tools from not getting decent results from inferior products.
Thanks
A standard recommendation is to buy one of the excellent versions of the Stanley #4 smoothing plane. In addition to used versions--which have to be restored--you can get new ones from Lie Nielsen and Veritas that are excellent right out of the box. About $350.
I have some Lie-Nielsen and Veritas planes, but also a Stanley #4 Sweetheart reissue. I love that plane. It's not the most massive, not the most impressive, but it takes great shavings! And it's sturdy, too. Good advice -- unless you're flattening larger boards by hand, this is a very good choice for an all around plane.
I know nothing about those planes. Cosman did a few reviews of some off brand planes, maybe this was one of them.
I do know that WoodRiver planes are made in China, not India. They are also branded as Quangsheng in England. But I assure you the quality is there. No, not ready to use out of the box like a LN. A few very minor things like casting. And yes, the iron will require some flattening. I know Cosman has a vested interest, but his video on commissioning a WR is worth watching. I have Veritas replacement irons but I really can't tell the difference.
I have several WR's, as well as Lie Nielsen, and IMO they are comparable in performance for 1/2 the price.
IMO WoodRiver is the best bang for the buck on an entry level plane anywhere.
I bought a Taylor #7 jointer plane some years back and fit and finish was not as I'd hoped. The sole was OK, but needed flattening; the blade was so out of square/flat, that I gave up and replaced it with a Hock blade chipbreaker combo. LN, though expensive, is worth it to me and thankfully my budget allowed for the purchase of a new LN #7. If you can afford it, purchasing a less fussy tool is almost always a time/money saver in the long run - depends on if you have time or money to spend. That said, I did use my Taylor tools #7 effectively (w/new blade) to good success and will be selling it soon.
I’m a believer in you get what you pay for. While I have no experience with Taylor Tools, I can highly recommend LN planes—ready to go with virtually no fettling. I expect the same can be said for Veritas planes (I don’t own any of their planes but my other Veritas tools are all high quality). LN and Veritas quality control is top notch, but whether made in India, China, or elsewhere, the lower cost brands QC is less consistent. Not necessarily bad — you may get lucky, just don’t count on it. Others have mentioned Wood River; my experience with other of their tools (not planes) is that it’s a mixed bag. I’ve successfully tuned up a number of WR tools, but it took work (and time) to get things flat and square.
The OP doesn’t say what type or size of plane he’s considering, or what kind of savings Taylor is offering. Depending upon what, the price differentials may not really be that great. If he’s looking for a #62 for instance, the LN is only $35 more than the WR version, so why take the risk?
But the Taylor #62 is $150 less than the Lie-Nielson. The op asked the wrong question. How does a Nissan Altima compare with a Mercedes 600? The question is -will a Nissan Altima reliably get me where I am going. I'm not familiar with Taylor tools but looking at their prices, their planes, if useable are a bargain. So, will Taylor planes get you where your going ? I've used Veritas and Lie-Nielson planes and they are fine planes for sure but I'm a Stanley man and it's pretty easy to end up with 3 good Stanley planes for the price of one Lie-Nielson. The woodworkers that I most admire Nakashima, Carpenter, Maloof etc. never used a Lie-Nielson. Krenov made his own. Alan Peters famously did everything with a Stanley #7. I saw a picture of it once it, it wasn't even Stanley's top model! He had Frankensteined it with replaced parts from different eras so if it came up on ebay you wouldn't even want it! Tools,always expensive have gotten ghastly expensive and you need a lot of tools. I saw in a catalog the other day ,a Frost sloyd knife for $29 -Woodcraft, I bought mine from Woodcraft when they were one store for $2.50. After 50+ years of working with wood and collecting tools I must have $100,000 invested. Most of my hand tools I ve had for 40 years or more. For someone starting out now to end up with what I have and using the sloyd knife as an example thats a million bucks! As a hobby there are no rules,you can spend as much as you want- but as a job you have to always weigh your expenses so that you come out in front. Whatever you decide, take into account that after you buy your plane your going to want 6 more!
Perfect metaphor! So many well-to-do woodworkers ignore the fact that sometimes it is about the money.
Yeah, but teaching someone to drive an old car with stripped gears, bad brakes and a worn out motor, vs. anything decent - well you get my point.
Poor quality tools are an impediment to skill building, period. The best option for a someone with a limited budget is Stanley in need of some restoration.
Even in the hand of a master, junk is junk. Some tools can be made better with some modifications, but a newbie who's never used a plane doesn't have the knowledge.
I'm not saying you need to buy the most expensive tools, but I think you'll find the people who take the plunge don't want to go back.
My plane till is full of Woodriver and a few LN & Veritas. I sold all my vintage Stanley's on Ebay years ago. That's me.
Perhaps I should amend my original statement to: you get what you pay — or work — for. I regularly rely on a number of vintage Stanleys, but they all took some work (and after market blades on many) to get them to perform well. But that wasn’t the OP’s question. BTW, I also have a post-war Stanley #5 that functions well as a door stop. As RobertEJr said, junk is junk.
Sometimes junk works,I was somewhere recently and came upon a bucket of lathe stuff , gummed up old faceplates and such so I picked it up. In the bucket I found some rusty old files that had been ground into bowl gouges. They layed around here for a while but the other day I cleaned them up and sharpened them and it turns out they work pretty well! Not likely the first tool I grab if I'm doing something but I'll keep them around.
I wasn't suggesting that anyone use junk . Sometimes tools that you spend a vastly superior price are vastly superior and then sometimes they are only sometimes just a little better. Lie-Nielson planes are nicely machined knockoffs of Stanley planes. Those Taylor's are the same, copies,but very likely not as well made -but tuned up are they serviceable? I don't know the answer to that, never seen one. Old Stanley planes work and except for certain rare collectable models they are inexpensive. The problem I had was finding them. In the 70s you had to hunt them at flea markets.. Stanley hardware in Philadelphia had a used tool shelf.Woodcraft in Woburn sometimes sold used tools. Florida was the best, old yankee carpenters retired down there and of course took their tools only to discover that no one makes anything out of wood down there. Now with the internet you can find anything and right now.. I have alot of chisels,too many actually but I had acquired a couple of Bergs just by chance . Using one one day I realized that I was holding the best piece of metal I own. I set about getting a whole set and shopped ebay. People want big money for a perfect complete set but if you can live with a little grunge on the handle and less than perfect,and I can, I was able to put together a whole set and never paid more than $20 a piece.
I had a friend that collected old masters Japanese chisels ,hundreds of dollars a piece,thousands some of them. Each had a story,like made by the oldest man in the world, the last in a line of samurai sword makers,the metal folded over 20,000 times etc.. They are really beautiful but they don't necessarily work better and in a way they were too good to use -every tap on the handle or sharpening lowered the value!
If you learn to drive a cranky old dodge dart with bald tires,bad alignment and bad brakes you'll be able to drive anything!
If you like fixing up old tools, or cars, or whatever, that's great. I've known guys that spent 1,000 hours fixing up an ancient bandsaw, and maybe 2 hours cutting stuff on it. It's a hobby. Whatever makes you happy.
But buying new tools is different. Yes, Lie Nielsen are more money. Yes, they are also considerable better than the more recent knockoffs. But the bottom line for me is where they are made. I've been to the Lie Nielsen plant, and met the people who make the tools. I've seen what it means in the local and regional economy. And that's that, really. I can save for a little longer and go without something else that I really don't need.
I've seen what happens to communities when businesses start making crappier stuff overseas. I am NOT going to contribute to that. I'm just not.
And, I end up with a much nicer tool.
American Made gets pretty complex. Where does Lie-Nielson source its materials? A closed loop would be nice.
It turns out surprisingly that the most American made full size pickup is a Toyota Tundra. No vehicles are 100% American made. Once,crappy and foreign was true. I've been to China. They are capable and willing to manufacture at any level of quality or specifications on, it seems, pretty much anything. Are there any woodworking machine manufacturers left in the US? RBI Hawk,those guys making reproductions of old Dewalt rads, oh, and Northfield and old school all the way! You might need to take out a mortgage to buy something from them however.. Anything else?
The Euro is one to one folks,that Felder just got cheaper!
This supply chain problem is getting ,I want to say "people "but it's wall street to rethink some of this. They did it, manufacturing wasn't stolen!
It can get complicated, but in Lie Nielsen's case it isn't. Everything is made in the US, from raw materials to boxes.
Definitely recommend Taytool products. They are some of the best value for the money AND have great customer service.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled