Hi all.
First time posting 🙂 I have a question for you, I couldn’t find posts about this in the forums, so here goes. Some time ago I found a great looking teak dining table on the net, and I decided to reproduce it using red oak (with my dad, he owns the tools :P). This is my first wood project ever, and we finished building recently. So far it looks fantastic, but I don’t want to screw up the finishing. Here is the picture of the original table:
And here’s the table we built:
So I’d like to know how I could get the look of the original table with red oak. Is it possible? Or do you guys have better ideas that would better suit this type of wood?
Thanks in advance, I can’t wait to have a big dinner sitting on that table 😛
Replies
Teak oil will not make red oak look like teak, but it is OK to use. You'll first want to fill the grain if you want it to even remotely resemble teak...
"You'll first want to fill the grain if you want it to even remotely resemble teak..." Boy, is that right! If you could put a piece of raw teak next to your red oak, you'd see why. The teak is extremely dense and smooth, the red oak has large pores.
Take the above statement to heart. You have vast expanses of wide flat wood in this table, so you'll need to fill the grain to get the smoothest surface possible. You'll need several pieces of oak to practice on until you get the technique down cold! If you make a mistake with your filling process, you can't go back and fix it (you can guess how I know this).
I'm going to recommend that you draw on Jeff Jewitt for some advice. Both at his forum and through one of his books. Great Wood Finishes is an excellent, well-illustrated book to start with and has several sections on grain filling. If it were me, I'd go the easy route with water-based filler, to lessen the difficulty of the task. Click here for his web site. There is a forum there to which he frequently personally provides answers.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I see. Thanks a lot for the info. I think I'll skip the grain filling stage, I should have checked before buying the wood... I'm still very happy with the result (for a first project), even if it's not teak. I thought it was mainly a color difference between teak and oak, now I know better :P
I will probably go with a stain and a non-gloss polyurethane finish. Or maybe I'll skip the stain. I think I have a few tests to do first :)
Before you totally give up on the idea of filling the grain, take a look at the other thread going in "Finishing" and see what you think.
If you still decide you don't want to tackle it (understandable), do some research on "wet-sanding" and considering using a Danish oil such as Watco with a wet-sanding technique to get your stain, and then using the clear finish of your choice (after the Watco is well-cured, a week or so). Taking this approach will do the following for you:
Fill in the pores to some extent
Give you your stain
Not give you the bleeding problems associated with red oak and Danish oil
Give you a beautiful, silky finish
It's fun!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I checked a little bit on the net, and I found this tutorial on wet-sanding, but I'm not sure this is what you meant (he's using car wax?):
http://www.woodmagazine.com/wood/story.jhtml?storyid=/templatedata/wood/story/data/226.xml&catref=wd14
Also, I'd like to avoid getting a glossy finish (is the term "matte" also used for wood?), is this still a good solution? And one last question: what's Danish oil, will it "cover" the surface with some kind of plastic film?
Thanks, forestgirl and Woody, for your tips, I'm kinda lost with all those finishing products and techniques.
Danish oil is a very thin oil/varnish mixture that is put on heavy and then the surplus wiped off. It soaks in and does not build up a "plastic" finish like the poly varnishes do. It tends to darken the color of the wood a bit, which should be OK for your teak look. It is also available with tinted stain colors as well, if you want it even darker (be careful with that). It is very easy to apply and a look that some love, some hate (I love it). Usually 2 or 3 coats are all that is required, but some like more. Some people like to apply it, then put a heavier finish over it, if that is the look you are going for. I often spray lacquer over it myself, but that can be tricky. Brushed on satin finish varnish would be a good choice if you want a tougher finish, which you may well want with a tabletop. WATCO is the most common brand, and should be available at your local stores. Minwax sells something similar, I think the call it Antique Oil or something like that. Stop by and ask about it, and how to apply it. You might even get a brief demo. Some apply it with wet/dry sandpaper to build up a slight "slurry" for filling in the wood grain, but it won't fill in oak (the grain is too open). The trick with Danish oil is to not leave a heavy coat on the wood or it will never dry. Put it on, let it soak a max of about 30 minutes, then take a clean dry cloth and wipe it off as dry as you can get it, sort of buffing it in.
Woody
Hi...Ihave used Watco oil on loads of furniture, usually 3 or 4 coats and I get a smooth finish but still feeling the grain. I'm very happy with this but when I was finishing a load of red oak kitchen cabinets I wanted a more water resistant finish. I remembered an article by Franz Klauss where he used an "oil" finish plus the addition of25% varnish. I then experimented with that and added more varnish than he did. I finally ended up using 2 parts Watco and 1 part spar varnish (a long oil varnish). It worked beautifully without the glass like finish that you seem to want to avoid. Apply it just as say on the can except let it dry for 2 days instead of 1.
Lots of luck with it
Len
So you used Watco Danish oil (which already contains varnish) and added more varnish? And did you put another finish on top of that?
Sounds nice!
Sgoodij,
I have built a couple of projects in Red Oak and achieved great results with the Watco "wet sanding" approach. I start with just wiping the piece down with Watco and then wiping it off. Then I wait a couple of hours and then start the wet sanding approach. I like to start with 180 grit and then work up to 400.
I then like to let the piece cure for a day or two and then I thin some MinWax oilbased Satin Polyurethane with Mineral Spirits. I usually thin 1:1 so this way I can wipe it on and not be worried about brush marks. I wipe on 3 coats and then sand it out with some Maroon mirlon pads (synthetic steel wool). This process will achieve the results you are looking for.
Cheers!Dark Magneto
A big thanks to all of you for helping me not screw up my big new table :P
I'll try this wet-sanding process on a piece of oak today, and see if I like it (sounds like what I want from your comments).
"I start with just wiping the piece down with Watco and then wiping it off." I'm curious about your reason(s) for not sanding starting with that first application.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I was always under the impression that the first coat would almost act as a "sealer". I know that it really doesn't, but I have tried wet sanding right away and I get better results when I have a first coat just wiped on.Just my personal preference from experiene.Dark
That sounds nice. To be precise, what I'd like to avoid is getting a "perfect high-gloss" table, which feels too "precious" to me. I prefer when we can still feel the wood with our hands, so that I'm not scared to put a glass or plate on the table without a mat.
I don't know if this is clear (English is not my first language...). Anyway, I'll try Danish oil and a satin finish (polyurethane or varnish, I must research a bit...).
Thanks again!
Nope, they're still talking about using a grain filler. Also, with red oak I like to stop sanding the raw wood (prior to the Watco application) at 150 grit because when I go to the wet-sanding process, I want the sanding particles to have some body to them.
So! Try this on some scrap and see if you like it:
Sand your table to 150; wipe off the dust
Have your wood and the Watco at room temperature.
Get thee some 150 wet/dry sandpaper and a small dish with your desired Watco in it. (More on which color later!)
Wipe a good-sized section down with Watco and then start going over it with a Watco-wetted piece of sandpaper. Given the size of the stock, you'll might need a block.
When the sandpaper starts to drag "more than a little bit" get it wet again.
Go over the entire surface this way, working up a bit of a slurry. Let it sit for 10 minutes or so, then wipe it down with a rag, turning frequently, to get the excess off.
Let it dry for awhile, repeat using the next grit up.
Bleeding: One thing that wet-sanding really helps with is the bleed-out from the open pores of the oak. The wood-dust-slurry helps bind the Watco and hold it still, so-to-speak. Go back to your piece every 15-20 minutes and check on/wipe off any bleed-out. Hopefully there won't be much.
With red oak I don't usually go past 220, but that's my choice.
There is no one way to do the wet-sanding. You'll get lots of opinions on what grits to start and stop with especially. NOTE: As far as color goes, whatever you put on for the first or second coate will greatly affect the pores in the oak, so you might want to try using the neutral or natural Watco for at least the one coat. Make up a bunch of sample board using different combinations, label them, and see which you like best.
The Watco will leave a pretty natural finish, with little gloss. You can overcoat it with a clear finish, and simply choose the amount of gloss you want. Be sure the Watco is cured before you put the clear coat on. I'd wait at least a week, maybe two just to be sure.
Hope I haven't forgotten anything -- customers coming and going here, LOL!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 2/25/2005 6:47 pm ET by forestgirl
sgoodij...
No I do not put another finish on top of the Watco/varnish coats. I just used 2 coats of just Watco in the usual way. Then I used 2 coats with Watco/varnish finish.
Len
I think you are wise to consider skipping the grain filling and finish it with Watco oil and then a varnish, as forestgirl recommends. Wood is like girls, each piece is unique and can look beautiful although it might not look exactly like another piece. I have use oak for years and I loved letting the grain show, not trying to hide it.
By the way, your table looks great, you should be proud of your work. A word of caution though, woodworking can be additive with no known treatment. I have been known to saw limbs off of living trees just to get my wood-fix -- and, some unique jewelry boxes to show for it!
Woody
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