Replies

1. 
   Danford_C_ | May 01, 2002 04:26am | #1

   Jon,

   Firstly I would recommend mortise and tenon joinery, much stronger.  As to the glue question, use a resorcinol glue it's water proof and is used in wooden boat building.  Teak is a pretty stable wood, with an RH between 62% and 92% it will move about 1/4 " per foot across the grain.  The high silica of this wood not only gives it it's "oily" nature, it also makes it very resisant to decay and why it's so hard on edged tools.

   Be sure and use a respirator, not a cheap dust mask, when milling out this wood it is very harmful to the lungs.

   Dano

   "Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright
2. 
   forestgirl | May 01, 2002 07:24pm | #2

   Teak does not weather as nicely as cedar does.  Most people I know who have unfinished Teak that's been outside for a couple of years wish now that they had put a finish on it.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   sschefer | May 01, 2002 07:41pm | #3

   Yup, I agree. But then again, I really don't care much for the weathered look or the splinters in my rear. Steve - in Northern California

2. 
   Danford_C_ | May 02, 2002 04:36am | #6

   Guess I'm not sure of your definition of "nicely" but, Teak does weather much better than any of the Cedars because it is much more resistant to decay.  Teak has been used extensively for centuries for wooden boat construction and is still being used today.  If you ever get a chance to see one of the Iowa class battle ships (or any other Naval ship) you'll see their decks are Teak.

   Fact is Teak is still the preferred decking material for boats...

   Dano"Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright

1. 
   forestgirl | May 02, 2002 04:54am | #7

   Hi Dano, how are ya?  "Nicely" was a personal judgment on my part, for sure.  There are many applications using teak, and individual representations, that I've admired over the years -- I have no prejudice against it! 

   As an aside,  I do have some concerns about many of the teak items I see in the big box stores, at Ace Hardware, etc., as to whether they come from properly managed tree farms, etc., but I make the optimistic assumption, when reading these boards, that most woodworkers are conscious of the impact their choices make on the overall forestry problems in the world today.

   Now, let me state again :-) I do like teak!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   Danford_C_ | May 02, 2002 06:58am | #8

   I'm fine, Forest_Girl.  Fact is if I were doing any better I'd have to be two of me.  Thanks for asking....

   I kinda figured you were expressing an opinion....was  just a tad confused about the correlation between "Teak joint/preparation" and Cedar....;-)

   Dano"Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright

1. 
   forestgirl | May 02, 2002 07:21am | #9

   Dano, I think it'd be fun to have 2 of you!  But you'd have to be Dano_A and Dano_B :-)

   My original post (about teak maybe not weathering as "nicely" as cedar) was in response to:

     "Secondly, seeing as how this table will be out in California sun year round, with little rain, it is necessary to put any finish on it?" 

   Question posed in the middle of the 1st post in the thread.  I do best with this kind of tangential thinking when Steve's around.  We've hijacked any number of threads over the past month!  LOL.

   Ooooo, am getting sleepy and can't type!

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

2. 
   sschefer | May 02, 2002 07:26pm | #11

   Hey Dano, I spent 2 years on the USS New Jersey BB-62. If you ever run into a bos'n from one of these ships, ask him how he liked holey stoning the massive decks on one of those puppys. The records say it has teak decks but the only teak that I found was in the quarter deck areas. The majority appeared to have been replaced somewhere down the line and I'm not sure what they used. All of the holey stoning and bleaching made it difficult to tell the species.

   The Minesweeper (USS Enhance) I was on out of Tacoma was all Teak and leaked like you wouldnt believe. It was so bad that if we lost power we went to General Quarters because the pumps shutdown. Only once did we actually leave the Sound. They finally decommisioned it.Steve - in Northern California

3. 
   HowardAcheson | May 02, 2002 11:46pm | #12

   Yeah Dano, but Iowa class battleships had lots of crew to "holy stone" the decks to keep them looking good. I think the Japanese used teak for their carrier decks.

   Go here to see a picture or "Mighty Mo's" teak deck. It's illuminated by the muzzle flash from a 16 gun broadside: http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h96000/h96814k.jpg

   Teak is still used on decks of fine yachts because it will last forever with minimal or no maintenence and, if left unfinished or only oiled, it is very non-skid.

   Edited 5/2/2002 5:07:46 PM ET by Howie

1. 
   user-6950710 | May 07, 2002 12:47am | #13

   One more thing I'm worried about.  For the outdoor teak table top that originally began this thread, there will be 11 rails that are 18" x 1.5" and spaced 1/8" apart.  These will be surrounded by a 3" teak border, mitered though at the joint.  This will add up to 24" square.  My worry though concerns the mitered joint.  I was thinking biscuit or splines, or both.  Even maybe double spline?  If splined, is there a guideline with the depth?  Dano mentioned before to use resorcinol glue.  Will this along with the reinforcements prevent any gap from eventually creeping out?  I'd be pretty upset if it did, and will consider using just a right angle joint for the border if necessary.  Thanks for your comments so far, and I look forward to the new ones.  On a more positive note, I cut all the pieces Saturday, and am now even more hooked on woodworking (I'm easy to please).  Next up - dovetail saw and block plane.  Thanks, Jon

3. 
   sschefer | May 01, 2002 08:12pm | #4

   Dave, teak or any other wood that is left outdoors has different aging properties that apeal to some and not to others. My dad painted everything left outdoors but stained the redwood siding on the house and left the fences unfinished. Go figure. Unfinished deck furniture is fine and Teak doesnt splinter when aged like many woods do. I was just throwing some humor out there. My deck is con heart cedar and it is a pain in the rear to keep looking good. Its getting time to replace it and this time is will be synthetic.

   Steve - in Northern California

4. 
   forestgirl | May 01, 2002 11:32pm | #5

   Hi Dave.  I agree that finishing, and then upkeeping, is a royal PITA.  I, personally, would never finish a natural wood that was going to stay outside in my area of the country, which is the Great (but soggy) Northwest.  We don't have enough space to drag stuff inside during the 8-9 months of the year when it's pretty icky outside!

   I would expect that the vast dimensions of a house would certainly show the differences in grain, etc., over the years, so protecting that was a wise move.

   Have to admit, I'm partial to cedar.  I'd love to be able to get some cypress and build something with it though.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

5. 
   vanderpooch | May 02, 2002 08:18am | #10

   i worked extensively with teak while decking wooden yachts in portland, or. we always wiped the glue surfaces down with acetone immediately before glue up. i have also heard info to counter this, but never had any problems with joints coming undone. i would take dano's advice on glue, or think about some west sytem epoxy. modern boat builders use it for pretty much everything. it can be prohibitively expensive though. i would recommend you stay away from cheaper epoxies if you go that route.

   on another note, there are different species sold as teak out there. from what i've seen, not all of them share the same qualities as "real" teak.

   one last thing.... we did two boats with decks of port orford cedar. they held up amazingly well without any treatment, just as teak does, and weatherd to nearly the same color.

   -kit