Replies

1. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Jan 24, 2005 10:04pm | #1

   Frenchy,

   Not an easy job - watch the fingers and cover as much of the cutter with a guard as possible - a fingerboard would be even better or a hold-down of some type.

   Get an offcut of MDF/Chipboard about 2' square and use that as a push stick - the panel can be held hard against the square offcut, as the offcut registers against the fence - you stand a better chance of success that way.

   As with all end grain work, please take little bites at a time here - leave about 1/8" for the final pass. Kickback on a router table is a hard one to deal with.

   Holddowns/fingerboards greatly assist you here - both from safety and managing the panel.

   CHeers,

   eddie

   edit: fingerboard is clamped to the fence, with fingers pointing down, not used in a traditional sense, being clamped to the main table.

   
   

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   Edited 1/24/2005 2:07 pm ET by eddie (aust)

1. 
   frenchy | Jan 25, 2005 03:09am | #6

   I'm using hold downs and I tried to use a push stick but can't keep the panel square without gripping the gauge..

1. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Jan 25, 2005 03:14am | #8

   No dramas Frenchy,As I said, instead of having an 11" long surface bearing on the fence, use at least a 2' extension, giving you a 2'11" min surface to keep the panel square to the fence.For overkill, you could make a sled.CHeers,eddie

2. 
   hammer1 | Jan 25, 2005 12:10am | #2

   Rollers won't work very well in your application. You can use the stands to attach a straight beam, 2x4 or what ever is on hand, at the right height. I use a piece of plywood, 3/4"x10"x10" +- to back up the piece. This rides flat on the table, against the fence and I hold the work piece tight to it. Works like a miter gauge but you don't have to have the fence parallel with the miter ways.

   I always do my end first, then work counterclockwise around the piece, this will cut off the tearout on the end. The plywood (or solid) backing board will also help to eliminate the bust out. With short cross cut pieces, you are better to have as close to a zero gap around the cutter as possible with the fence. You don't want any place where the work piece can get hung up or dive in deeper. Do you wax your machine tables? Waxing the table as well as the beam will help. You don't have to make the cut full depth on the first pass, especially with panel raising cutters. You'll get a better surface if you only take an eighth or so off on the last pass.

   If you are doing more than a couple of panels, you may want to build a sled with a hold down, similar to a coping sled. You always want full control of the work piece on a shaper or any other tool for that matter. Full guarding also. Don't ever continue with a process if you don't have full control, too easy to slip. I'm sure you know that ,Frenchy but just in case others are reading this.

   My wife, daughters and some helpers can't pay attention either. The shop is no place for anyone that's not aware of what is going on. There have been times when I was so broke, I couldn't pay attention! That's an old joke!

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   frenchy | Jan 25, 2005 03:13am | #7

   I tried that first, To build a table extension, the drag of the long panel made things worse.. a sled would somehow have to have enough stability to hold a long panel down to be of any pratical use..

     Yeh!  I'm doing the whole bathroom floor to ceiling  about 35 panels in all , all fiddleback maple and all wonderfull stuff but long!  not a problem lengthwise but I haven't got to the length wise portion yet since I'm doing end grain

1. 
   hammer1 | Jan 25, 2005 04:05am | #12

   I had to run dadoes in some long skinny pieces on my saw. I added an oak 2x4 to my miter gauge long enough (30"+-) to support the back of the piece and added a block under the extension to also hold up on the piece. I was able to drill a 1/2" hole in the 2x right in line with the bar. Into this hole, fit my hold down clamp from my Bosch slider. All I had to do was reach my left hand out as far as comfortable to add stability to the long pieces. The hold down worked well, you could use whatever you have on hand. Even clamping with an F clamp to the miter gauge would be better than the piece rocking. Of course you have to hold up on things and can't let go or it will fall off the table. That's where the support rail comes in handy. With a little finesse, something I'm short on, I was able to make, literally, 100's of controlled cuts. You just have to feel the sweet spot for the miter bar to keep it from jamming in the slot. Try a dry run, I think you'll find it do-able. You're not trying to do this on some toy machine are you, with a plastic miter head and a 6" bar? There is one other approach that I don't recommend very highly. You can clamp a short, 24" +- straight edge, piece of wood on the under side of the work piece to ride against the table edge of the shaper. Just make sure it is square to the work and hold up on the long end while you press down on the table. I've trimmed a 1/4" off the long end of some 4x8 sheets with some help that way.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

3. 
   KeithNewton | Jan 25, 2005 12:21am | #3

   Can you raise your cutter higer, and add a sub-table of something like melamine with a leg to support the outer end ?

1. 
   frenchy | Jan 25, 2005 03:14am | #9

   That was my first attempt.. didn't work worth squat

4. 
   ron61 | Jan 25, 2005 02:00am | #4

   Sounds like really long Panels-  RP  that long I would break up into 3 panels or at least 2  - Will make a more stable Door or End. I never do Panels that long

   If you want good panels every time get a Power Feeder also a lot safer, I would not free hand something that long with out some kind of hold down .

   You know when you get your fingers in a shaper they don't grow back .

    

    

1. 
   frenchy | Jan 25, 2005 03:04am | #5

   Ron,

    I am using hold downs and keeping fingers well away from cutters,  I'm taking as light a cut as possible and so far tear out hasn't been an issue   I'd use power feeders except for an 11 inch inch wide panel hat is seven feet long they won't work...

     I need seven feet long panels for a couple of reasons.  First I have fiddleback maple that long and I'd hate to cut it up  (it just looks better)  Second the design of the bathroom would get too busy with a couple of extra rails in it , stupid designer wanted to feature the height of the ceiling and I ooops (now you know)  decided on seven foot long panels on top and 3 foot long panels on the bottom..

   Edited 1/24/2005 7:07 pm ET by frenchy

1. 
   ron61 | Jan 25, 2005 04:38am | #13

   You have lost me

   I'd use power feeders except for an 11 inch inch wide panel hat is seven feet long they won't work...

   Panel Hat ?

   I assumed it was just a Panel.  

    

5. 
   frenchy | Jan 25, 2005 03:23am | #10

   Here's my next attempt.. I tried using rollers, I've got one triple roller and it's rollers were close enough together that I hoped it would work, it didn't!

     What I intend to do is set the rollers up next so that I have one board on two  seperate roller stands and the panel laying across that board.    I will have the board ever so slightly higher so only the tip of the board will drag. It really shouldn't affect the cut very much since  everything is at an angle.   

1. 
   Peter36 | Jan 25, 2005 03:46am | #11

   Could you use 2 pieces of plywood made into a inverted T so that there is not much drag on the piece as it slides across the bottom of the T ? Along with this I would use the 2' square back up board to keep it square. Clamp the maple and the 2' board together like you are making a table top and run them through.

6. 
   dinothecarpenter | Jan 25, 2005 06:01am | #14

   Paying my 15 year old daughter way too much  ($20.00an hr.) and she doesn't pay attention long enough to get really great results either..

   I hope that was a joke.

   YCF Dino

1. 
   highfigh | Jan 25, 2005 06:33am | #15

   I'm so poor, I can't even spend the night!Frenchy- if you make an infeed/outfeed table with melamine/laminate surfaces, there won't be very much friction. The longer you can make it, the straighter the stock will stay. If yo make it with a fence, the work will be more stable, too. Ideally, it'll be at least 1/2 of the length of each piece being milled for each table. That way, anything that's close to the cutter will be pretty flat and you'll be bale to adjust the flatness of the assembly. Definitely flatter than rollers. I don't know how high the shaper table is, but you could make legs similar to a folding table. Keep the weight low for stability and keep it behind the area where you need to walk. I would set up the infeed/outfeed so they can be attached solidly to the edges of the shaper table, maybe bolt them on.
   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

7. 
   notDusty | Jan 25, 2005 10:15am | #16

                  frenchy,

       You have a difficult task , no doubt about it . I have the same problem when dadoing or rabbeting near the end of a long piece , here is what works for me. First off I am not sure if you said if you are running your panels face up or down , but I would recommend face up. Build a cart or table on castors exactly the same height as the shaper table , with a helper holding the panel down tight to the rolling cart you need to work together and smoothly feed the panel through the cut. When working alone as I mostly do , I will clamp the piece  down to the top of the cart. As was suggested a few passes may be best. It is a slow process but if you don't want to use a power feeder , this is the best way I have come up with . A power feeder will work however some support would still be needed for the long panels you are running. As my debate opponent Ron suggested splitting the panels would make the task easier . You could make the cart 3/4" lower then the shaper table and place a longer then the cart extra 3/4" top for even more support. The more I think about it I usually shim the part that rests on the cart a bit up to assure the panel back is flat on the shaper table. Also IMO feather boards are a must for RP work. Lasty I run my panel stock down to between 9/16" and 5/8" , this will lighten up the weight factor maybe 20% or so and make this task even easier .

             I hope this helps         good luck               dusty

   
   

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   Edited 1/25/2005 9:55 am ET by dusty

8. 
   TimLoupe | Jan 25, 2005 04:43pm | #17

   Frenchy,

   Can you find the profile your cutting in a router bit ? I have cut very tall panels with a router , light passes . This is going to slow you down untill you get the bit , but a least you want trash your fancy panel , relationship with your daughter our heaven forbid yourself.

   Tim

    

9. 
   TomMGTC | Jan 25, 2005 06:02pm | #18

   Sounds like it's time for a sliding table for the shaper. Not the sled type, a real sliding table with a proper hold down clamp and fence.

   Tom

   Douglasville, GA

1. 
   highfigh | Jan 25, 2005 07:54pm | #19

   Funny that someone should mention a sliding table on a shaper. I have a Lurem shaper(French made) with a slider on it. It was used by a local conversion van builder for their raised panel cabinet doors. I bought it, but haven't really needed it. The end of the motor shaft was damaged before I got it(the key sheared and damaged the keyway), but from what I have been told by several people who repair machinery, is repairable. Where are you located? I also have some Freud cutters that will work on this machine. It's not terribly heavy, so shipping shouldn't be too bad.
   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

2. 
   frenchy | Jan 25, 2005 08:46pm | #20

   Yeh, a sliding table would be just the ticket,  get one about 3 feet wide and then I would have slightly more than haf of the panel on the shaper..   Hmmm,... the sliding table option is $2000.00,  gulp!

      oh!  and it's only 28 inches wide.. plus it won't fit my machine I'll have to buy another one,  Hmmmm I wonder if it's worth it...

1. 
   TomMGTC | Jan 26, 2005 02:43am | #21

   There are several sliding tables on the market that cost considerably less than the 2k you are talking about. You don'tneed support for the whole length of the piece. What you do need is a good sturdy hole down and a solid fence to hold the panel 90 degrees to the cutter and a sliding table would provide that.Tom

   Douglasville, GA