Replies

1. 
   Arcticat1 | May 28, 2003 02:52am | #1

   For what it's worth, I would suggest you buy a conversion hvlp that runs off a compressor. The finish quality from one of the better conversion guns is simply much better than you will get with a turbine unit. You will be able to utilize a wider variety of finishes, and most imprtantly you won't have to thin water-based finishes or paint because you don't have the pressure you need at the aircap to atomize them properly. Even if you have to buy a compressor to do the job, I still think it is worth it. In particular I would recommend the CA Technologies Jaguar gravity feed, or if you do alot of intricate projects that require you to spray upside down, etc., the Lynx pressure feed with their Bandit 2qt. pot. Good luck.

1. 
   Sancho | May 28, 2003 07:04am | #2

   I went from a CH HVLP to a accuspray conversion no comparison. i would highly recommend checking out jeff jewits site http://www.homesteadfinishing.com  or http://www.compliantspraysytems.com either one of these folks can hook you up, I prefer the accuspray because it sold locally here in SoCal. 

   Darkworks:  Its all 'bout da squilla

2. 
   Kevin | May 28, 2003 08:46am | #3

   Hey CL, do you have a Jaguar? What does it retail for? I've never used a turbine HVLP set up. But, I've shot with plenty of the conversion HVLP guns. I absolutely love my Devilbiss GTi gravity gun! That Jaguar sure is a nice looking gun, though.

   BTW, Devilbiss sells a gravity gun disposable liner kit that allows you to spray upsidedown. I use it on mine all the time and I must say that it's an incredibe advantage. Each kit comes with an assortment of adapters so that you can use them on guns not made by Devilbiss. Here's a link: http://www.autorefinishdevilbiss.com/pdfs/G1GravityCupsLiners.pdf  The liners fit better in the larger 1 liter cups. I've also got a Sata copy gravity gun with the smaller 750cc cup and the liner is more of a pain to use on it.

   Regards,

   Kevin

1. 
   Arcticat1 | May 30, 2003 12:52am | #4

   Yes, I do have the jaquar and love it. It sells for $350, but I got the unused display model from the local auto parts store for $200. That liner kit looks like a great addition. I have an Asturo pressure feed gun with a 2qt. pot but most of the time I would rather use the gravity gun for it's ease of cleaning and ability to use every last drop of finish.

1. 
   Kevin | May 31, 2003 05:08am | #7

   Some interesting feedback on your CAT Jaguar gravity gun...

   I asked my good friend and paint materials supplier extraordinaire, Pat Owens, (with http://www.industrialfinishes.com/index.html ) what he knows about the Jaguar. He was my supervisor at a previous place of employment and is arguably one of the premiere car painters on the West Coast. Some of his friends call the "Super Chevy"  hotrod magazine "Super Owens" instead because he's had two different Cameros that he owned and painted make the cover as feature cars. I throw that in just to establish his credentials. This guy knows spray equipment inside and out. He also used to finish very high-end yachts too. He's worked with all sorts of exotic woods and veneers.

   Anyway... as part of his job as a salesman he was sent to the PPG HQ for a refinish seminar designed to keep him on the cutting edge of the latest and greatest products that PPG offers. He attends similiar seminars for other manufactorers. So anyway I was asking him what he knows about the Jaguar and he tells me that at the PPG seminar they had one of every brand and type of refinish gravity gun on the market and tested them head-to-head... using PPG products naturally. SATA, DeVilbiss, Binks, CAT, etc.... they were all there. Keep in mind that the top of the line SATA retails for about TWICE as much as your CAT Jaguar. Anyway... the Jaguar won Top Gun. Pat said he was genuinely surprised that one of the SATA guns didn't win. But, he said that none of the other guns could touch the atomization of the Jaguar... high praise indeed!

   I thought you might find that interesting...

   Regards,

   Kevin

2. 
   Arcticat1 | May 30, 2003 01:09am | #5

   Just looked at that liner kit a little closer. I don't understand how it allows you to spray upside down. Does it come with a new lid? I think if I tipped my gun up my lid would come off. If it works with my gun I would order it in a heartbeat. Thanks

1. 
   Kevin | May 30, 2003 01:33am | #6

   The liner kit is basically a special ziplock bag. Rather than me lamely try to explain it, here's the service bulletin for my 32oz. gravity feed cup. A complimentary bag liner kit comes with the cup... so, the service bulletin explains the liner system.

   http://www.autorefinishdevilbiss.com/service_bulletins/GFC502GravityCup.pdf

   Basically it turns the gravity gun into a form of a siphon feed when the liner kit is used and the gun is upsidedown. When upright the gun operates as a normal gravity gun.

   A HUGE added benifit to using the liner kit is that there is even less clean up than without it since the cup and lid remain perfectly clean due to the liner. Only the feed from the cup to the gun and the internal fluid passages in the gun need cleaning after using the liner.

   Believe me... it's a very slick system!

   PS don't worry about your lid coming off. It won't. The bushing and the liner bear almost all the weight of the paint when the gun is upsidedown.

   Regards,

   Kevin

2. 
   Tao | Jun 06, 2003 02:06am | #8

   Hope this doesn't come too late.  I haven't been able to log on until today.

   I have been finishing professionally now for about 35 years.  I have owned an 8100 and a 9100, and in my opinion they are one of the better turbine outfits around.  That said, I'd never own one again.  You can get MILES better performance for less money.

   My main criticism of all tubine guns is that none of them develop full pressure at the air cap.  The 4-turbine 9100 I had only produces 7 psi with the hose blocked!  I am quite sure that the pressure dropped off a lot when air was actually flowing.  This means that you have to overthin your materials to get them to atomize correctly, resulting in more runs, more labor, and more waste.  With a gun that runs off a compressor, you can spray more materials at package consistency, and this ends up giving you a better finish with less labor.  (Contrary to popular belief, overthinning is not a good thing to do.)  You can also cheat and run your pressure over 10 psi if you absolutely have to.

   Another criticism is adjustability.  The turbine manufacturers have been addressing this issue and some of the guns are getting pretty good, but most of them are sorely lacking in adjustability compared to conversion guns.

   The third criticism is speed.  I have never yet seen a turbine gun that compares to a good conversion gun in speed of application.  By the way, those airflow figures are completely bogus.  My 9100 actually put about 15 CFM through the gun, not 100+ as claimed.

   The last objection is cost.  My favorite gun is an Asturo Eco.  I haven't tested every gun in the world, but it beats my MACH 1, and closely rivals my old conventional Binks Model 7, and all of my DeVilbiss conventional guns.  Best of all, it uses only 5 CFM at 17 psi.  That means it will run all day on a decent little twin tank compressor.  You can buy one of the best guns in the world and a compressor too, and still have two or three hundred dollars left over, and far better performance.

   By the way, that "true HVLP" stuff is bogus.  Industry was using "conversion" hvlp long before turbines became popular, and you still never see turbine guns in industrial applications.  That should say something.

   Hope this clears things up a little, and maybe saves someone some money.

   Michael R

   
   

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   Edited 6/5/2003 7:08:29 PM ET by Woodwiz