Replies

1. 
   acornw | May 16, 2005 08:28pm | #1

   We cut tenons this way all the time.  You need to have sufficient power in the shaper since this end work is a bigger load than edge work.  You will need to hold the parts securely in a tenon jig with air clamps or De-sta-cos or similar.  You can set up stops at the end being worked, or at the opposite end.  There will be blow out at the back edge of the tenon, even with a good back up strip, so oversize the parts in width by 1/16" or more.  Bring the fences in close and guard over the cutters, and you are ready.  We center the tenon by flipping a set-up piece, but it is still recommended to run all parts with face marks and run face up or face down so they are more consistent at assembly. 

   We use 11 hp and 7 hp  shapers for this work, with tooling up to 7" diameter on 1-1/4" spindles, aluminum tenon jigs with air clamps, riding on UHMW strips and in a miter slot in the table.  We even do the coping and tenoning in one go.  Since our tenons are 3/4" x 2-1/2" x up to 12", we rough the tenons out on a Powermatic 2-a first.

   Dave S

    

1. 
   seankzn | May 16, 2005 09:36pm | #2

   Thanks Dave.

   I'm not up to that sort of power being only 3hp.  Your suggestion to oversize the width to correct for break out is brilliant and explains why I have the need to ask these questions!  And it gives me an idea for an alternative.

   Befrore I go; do you cut with a double blade or single and flip?

   Regards

1. 
   acornw | May 16, 2005 10:37pm | #3

   We use two cutters with appropriate spacers whenever we can. 

   We also have a stub spindle in the world's oldest Rockwell 1hp shaper that allows us to tenon one side of a part, with the tenon passing over the top of the cutter.  This allows for unlimited tenon length, thickness and width, but the part has to be run face up, then face down, and may take multiple passes.  3/4" stock will allow a 5/8 long x 1/4" deep (tall) cut in one pass.  A lot like a router table set-up, but with more cut power, and no screaming.

   Dave S

2. 
   eddiefromAustralia | May 17, 2005 12:15am | #4

   Sean,

   I'd use something a bit sturdier than saw blades (unless 'acorn', Dondownunder, Sgian, Dan K, or another long-term pro has practical experience to state otherwise.)

   For me, I'd use a tenoning blade on a spindle moulder (spent a bit of time looking unsuccessfully on google for a pic.) The saw plate is about 6mm thick, ant the teeth take about a 10mm cut. I was trained to use these to cut tenons on a spindle moulder - they're a touch stiffer than a saw blade.

   Cheers,

   eddie

3. 
   KeithNewton | May 17, 2005 01:02am | #5

   If you already have a stack dado, you might mount the outside blades opposite from normal with a spacer bushing, plunged up through a sub-base on your TS, then go back and cut the shoulders against the fence just as fast.
   No heavy end-grain load requirements needed.

4. 
   philip | May 17, 2005 11:59am | #6

   Hello Sean,
   Herewith one pic of my set up using spindle to cut tenons- it is my first choice in the absence of a dedicated tenon machine.
   If you do not have a sliding table it can still be done safely and easily- if you are keen I can describe this under seperate cover, otherwise the safety police may call in an air strike.
   I usually cut the shoulders on my heavy radial arm, sometimes on t saw, sometimes a combination of these two; therefore there is NO blow out, and shoulder size is 100% accurate.
   The machine is 3phase3 hp-plentnuff for the job. Diam of saw is 160mm-medium heavy plate,4mm kerf. cut from below and flip-this way tenon is always in the centre.Have tried two with spacer- don,t favour because not easy to make small adjustments to thickness.
   I can cut tenons up to 45mm long with this-nuff for most cabinet making applications.
   Would like to send the other 4 pics, but have somehow lost how to resize , and fear the an imminent strike from the hovering photography police- so one pic of 322 pix follows.If you want I can retake photos in the smallest mode.

   
5. 
   Routerman | May 17, 2005 02:59pm | #7

   You can hit 35.0mm with your plunger and this tenoner. Load, rout and reload time in the jig is about a minute for a tenon that short.

6. 
   philip | May 18, 2005 09:14am | #8

   Hello Sean,
   Here are some pics of tenoning with a spindle: since you have a spindle I think this is a good method to use . You don't say how you do your mortices.
   If you can only get the 190mm saw this will still be O.K-just be sure it is not running too fast and have it well supported by flanges of 100mm dia. or so to keep it rigid.

   
1. 
   seankzn | May 21, 2005 01:13am | #9

   Thank you and ALL for your responses and helpful suggestions.  Sorry for the delay in replying but this week brought a late run of pompano to our local beaches.

   I sourced a 150mm medium heavy plate 4mm kerf blade which I set up pretty much as you suggested (thanks for the pics- the size is just great) using my standard spacers to give me a 47mm depth of cut.  The blade is a 24 tip but I've put in an order for a 12 which I think will be better at the spindle's minimum speed of 6500rpm(?).  My sliding table is not as solid as yours and its leading edge sits about 50mm further away from the cutter; nothing that I can't overcome.  The four test joints that I made after setting up this evening were perfectly square and vertical to the very true and smooth mortices delvered by my Boss vertical chisel morticer.  I could not achieve this consistently with my TS jig.

   I am doubly delighted with this development because having followed Routerman for some time I recently invested in a heavy duty router and table: with no regrets at all but fearful that my shaper might become redundant!

   Regards

1. 
   philip | May 21, 2005 04:31am | #10

   Hello Sean,
   I am pleased you are going the spindle route for your tenons.On rare occasions I have needed more length, but got round that by going as far as possible with spindle , then finishing the cuts with the bandsaw,which can be made to cut very accurately.
   6500 rpm sounds on the fast side , but as long as the peripheral speed is way over the top things 'll be fine. You don't want to hear that resonating sound .
   There is no way your shaper should become redundant.I bet that saw blade will spend a lot of time there- I also use mine for cutting drawer bottom grooves and rebates. I also made 9000 coat hangers, using it to cut a slot to join the two arms with a loose tongue.To say nothing about slotted collars , moulding heads, rebating blocks etc....And router cutters if you've got an adaptor shaft and collet(!)

2. 
   WillGeorge | May 22, 2005 10:37pm | #11

   Damn one wicked machine!

    

   Edit..

   The blade on the bottom looks like it came off a BOOK BINDER.. Cuts the back of the book pages flat and then ya gluse and BIND!

   Yes I was also into book-binding...

   I never found anything I was good at!

   Edited 5/22/2005 3:39 pm ET by Will George

   Edited 5/22/2005 3:42 pm ET by Will George

1. 
   philip | May 22, 2005 11:26pm | #12

   Hello Will,
   You may find this strange, but I bought a pair of those blades in Athens,Greece in 1993! They are German, I think made for grooving.Athens has many little shops in the old area where you can find many good things, including British hand tools.