I have a problem that I hope someone out there can help me with. The other day I cut some tenons to fit in grooves for these shop cabinets that I am building. However, when I tried to fit the tenon in the grooves – I discovered that the tenons were too small to fit in the grooves. It was a pain in the you know what to cut the tenons and grooves using a table saw with no dado blade, so I’m not looking forward to cutting new tenon. Is there anyway for me to get the tenons to fit in the grooves without recutting the tenon? Thank you for your help in advance.
Trevor
Replies
You can glue some veneer to both sides of the tenon then sand to proper size.
Garth
scott has the right idea. Next time cut your tenons first then your mortices to match.
Not that there is a right or wrong way about doing this, but I always cut my mortices firs, then the tennons to fit. It is easier for me to sand the tennons to fit than to chip at the mortices.
Another option, which is what I do, is to use loose tenons. All of the mortices are the same, and you make loose tenons to fit. They can be sanded/planed down to an exact fit. Simple and easy to do.
John
Yes, I have come to rely more and more on loose tenons. They are a bit easier to handle and work just as well. I have to be careful how I phrase things 'cause I am using the words "regular tenons" and "loose tenons" interchangeably.
Marcello
John - what are loose tenons? And how would they solve my problem?
Think dowel pin, except the holes are wider and the pins are not round they are flat and rectangles both rails and styles have the mortise. The tendon is then slipped into both of the mortises. like a dowel.
Loose tenons are tenons which you put into a mortice which is in both pieces. You use a router to make the mortice and then make some tenon stock to fit. I find that this is very easy to do using a bench planer. Once you get close in thickness you sneak up on it with a 16th of a turn or so. And if using a bench planer, remember to allow for snipe, which can screw up the thickness of tenons cut from the ends of the piece.
There was an article in FWW, by Lon Schleining, which covered this topic recently. He made a jig for his router. What I do is use a router mortising machine, which has a table which moves in the x/y/z axes about a fixed router. Very quick, very easy, and extremely accurate. Much easier than using true tenons.
John
Loose tenons are just as true. The term "traditional tenon" would be a better term to use. True implies anything else is false. For a good inexpensive slot mortiser see FWW #141. XY moving table using drawer slides.
I mill the mortises first, they are specific sizes and can not be altered, as I use a mortiser, but the same would be true if you drill them and chop out the waste.
Then mill the tennons. By the way, I always make up 4-10 scrap tennons, and run one through, check the fit, run another test one through, test the fit, etc. Once the fit is right, I run the final peices through. I make a couple extra pieces, too, just 'cause I often f u c k up.
I have used veneer. I can not imagine using a shim. Jeez, how off are you??? Shims are angled, and won't grap very well. Veneer is flat and you will get good bonding between the face grains of the veneer and the tennon. Need more space, thicker veneer or two pieces.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1927
Where did you get the idea that all shims are tapered? A shim is what you are using when you use veneer. The easiest way to fix a loose fitting tenon is to shim it using whatever thickness shim works.Tom
Different understanding of shims. I am a finish carpenter, and generally all shims are angled, to set jambs etc. Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1927
Bill, cutting tenons first and then cutting mortices to match is usually harder than cutting the mortices first followed by the tenons. Here's the logic of the argument in favour of the latter order.
Most mortises are cut in one pass using a mortise chisel, hollow chisel mortiser, plunge router and bit, or horizontal boring machine. In each case, the chisel or bit cuts a set width, e.g., hand chopping a mortice with a 9mm mortise chisel produces a mortice 9 mm wide, but it can be any length and depth you want within reason. Similarly, a hollow chisel mortising machine also uses chisels that are of a standard size, e.g., 1/4", 5/16", 3/8", etc.. In this example the hollow chisel only cuts true when it's fully surrounded by material-- they drift off towards any gap. And whilst it's true that a router can be jigged up to produce a 12 mm wide mortise using a 9 mm diameter bit, a 9 mm bit isn't 9 mm after it's been sharpened a time or two. So if you've set up a jig to cut tenons to suit this cutter and its jig, they'll end up tight after a couple of router bit sharpenings.
On the other hand, the tenon is completely, and easily, customisable to any thickness (to suit the mortise width) and any width (to suit the mortise length) and any length (to suit the mortise depth.) Each to their own prefered methodology I suppose, but you'll never catch me trying to make mortises to fit an existing tenon except in special circumstances, e.g., restoration work, and I'd never teach anyone to do that as a normal practice. Slainte. Some stuff I've made.
Just to add to what Sgian has already said - when you prepare your stock, plane a piece or two of scrap to the same size as the stock from which you'll be cutting your tenons. Use these planed scrap pieces to make your practice cuts fitting them to the mortices, then when you get to the real thing you'll have a perfect set-up.
Jeff
Edited 12/20/2002 3:59:29 PM ET by Jeff K
Thanks, but what should I do now?
Scott - Can I use shims, instead of veneer, and sand down to final thickness?
Sure if you have a hand plane make some shaving and glue them to the sides, another option is use system three T88 epoxy, which is gap filling, to glue up the M & T. Quick and dirty, nut it works.
Scott T.
Just to weigh in with another thought, what I do is cut the mortises first, generallyw ith a hollow chisel mortiser, then cut the tenons oversize just a bit, and then bring the tenons in to the desired fit with a rabbet plane. Each shaving is just .002-.005" or so, and it is quite fast.
A bunch of years ago, FWW had an article on making a tenon cutting jig that works on your tablesaw. I cut my tenons with that jig, using the two outside blades of my dado set. I made a bunch of spacers of various thickness to put between the blades. I cut my mortises first using a router (since I don't have a dedicated mortiser). Then when I cut the tenons, I can adjust the spacer and get exactly the fit I want.
Bruce
If a picture's worth a 1000 words...
The BeadLOCK system: http://www.woodshopdemos.com/smfld-2.htm
Making tenons tighter: http://www.woodworkingtips.com/etips/etip020718wb.html
Taunton article with even more links embedded in it: http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00011.asp
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled