I am bidding on a project that will require something like 1500 tenons. I am planning to use a router mounted horizonally and a sled set up. I can gang pieces together and the bit will cut the sholders. I can get great accuracy from the set up, but wondering am what others may have discovered.
Thanks,
JK
Replies
That many tenons many civer the cost of a good used tenoning machine.
Thanks
What brand/model would you recommend?
JK
In your circumstance, I wouldn't recommend any particular machine. I suggest you look for what is available used, and go from there. Some machines may be 1 or 2k while others may be 30 to 100k. Obviously very different machines at this price disparity, but I think you get the idea.
Don
Loose tenons and slot mortises in the rail and stile or what ever the respective parts are. Guarantees perfect fit and alignment.
If this a paying job get the Rojek slot mortiser. The Laguna is nice as well but by the time you set it all up you could have the Rojek for the same price. Plus it's a lot cheaper than a tenoning machine.
http://www.exfactory.com/seephoto.asp?photo=MO/01023501.JPG&recnum=MO%2D010235
Compare slot mortisers to tenoners at exfactory.com
http://woodcentral.com/shots/shot52.shtml
Another alternative is to locate an old handmill. If you get lucky you can find them with a collet system which would mean very litle modification to adapt the machine.
Still another is the simple version using drawer slides featured in FWW #141. The best and simplest machine from off the shelf stuff. It does work because I know a fellow who made a similar version ten years prior to the article.
Rick
Edited 10/22/2002 11:32:22 AM ET by rsl
Do you have to make the mortises as well or do you have to just supply stock with tenons? More info would be helpful as it might suggest a totally different approach.
Rick
I'll be making the entier piece, mortises, tenons, and all.
Thanks,
JK
Then I can't recommend the slot mortiser strong enough. A perfect opportunity to have a job pay for a new tool. How were you planning on doing the mortises anyway? Slot mortiser will take care of everything with one machine, plus it's well suited for production or one off custom work.
http://www.exfactory.com see
Rick
Thanks for all the input.
I'm intrigued. I just looked at the PM "15" Chain Mortiser". What makes me concerned buying equipment I've no experience with to start a big job. Might try to see one in action first. I'm in Charlotte, NC area--anyone out there know of one working in the area?
JK
Not the chain mortiser! Look at horizontal slot mortisers like Laguna, Rojek, Bini, Invicta. A technology that goes back to the 50's in Europe and barely covered in FWW or totally unknown by plaid, bearded TV woodworkers. Based on 30 plus years industrial and custom woodworking.
Rick
Thanks very much. Will do research and get back to discussion.
JK
If you wouldn't mind, please, what is the brand of machine you show in your attachment? I have spent alot of time looking at slot mortisers and that one does not look familiar. Also, my vote definetely goes for ths slot mortiser over the mortising machines that use square chisel.
Rogue...I'm not sure who's importing that brand now but I've seen them around in the trade journals like Custom Woodworking Business. I've seen quite q few different brands in various shops over the years. Of course no American company makes them except the JDS multirouter which is a sort of hybrid.
Rick
rsl,
Where did you find this at? I can't find any sac-usa machines or slot mortisers at tools plus.
Don...that was a file clip I got off the web at tools plus a maybe 6 months ago. Apparently they tried to make it in the big boys league and failed. I called them up and they had no clue as to what a slot mortiser even is. Don't rely on the web for everything. A lot of sites aren't kept up to date. I'm in the northeast and there are a few industrial woodworking suppliers that carry slot mortisers like Bini etc. Rojek has one. Laguna sells the robland and knapp. There's plenty of dealers who know what slot mortisers are. Ever go to http://www.woodweb.com a pro site for industrial woodworking
Rick
Edited 10/24/2002 12:17:42 PM ET by rsl
Speaking as someone who does own and use a horizontal mortiser (laguna), I would have to second the opinions that it would be a good choice for what you're doing. On the other hand, I worked in one big shop (http://www.thornco.com) that made tens of thousands of tenons on a shop-built sliding-table tenoner with two horizontally-oriented PC 1.5hp routers spinning the bits. It sort of depends on whether you have more money or time, and whether you think you'll need much volume production from the machine after this job; the thing was all wooden (cherry), and ran on waxed runners. You can sort of imagine what I mean; the routers were stationary, and could be adjusted for tenon thickness and layout by rotating their bases relative a fixed point (one of the sub-base screwholes). The bit projection determined the shoulder length of the tenon. The aforementioned sliding table with square fence carried the workpiece past the bits.
This sounds really jury-rigged, but it wasn't; they had made it in the shop several years before I came along, and I'm sure it's still working now (four years later). Gets used in a production environment every day with beautiful results.
There are also tenoning plates made for the shaper by Leuco, Guhdo and the other European makers. If you have a sliding-table shaper those might be a good choice; easier than making a router tenoner, cheaper than buying a full-on slot mortiser. Good luck.
John Casteen
http://www.fernhillfurniture.com
John,
Thanks very much for the idea. I'll get back to the list with the results of the bid.
JK
For what it's worth I just picked up the Laguna router mortiser and it only cost $695 at the local woodworking show. List is probably $100 to $150 more. Add the cost of a router to this and you're done, with a pretty low cost. It works great and has solved the problem I've been having with doing mortise and tenon work for Mission furniture. I'll be using loose tenons now, and my Multico PM16 is going to a good new home.
John
John,
What was the model number on that Laguna? Thanks for the post.
JK
Go to Lagunas website...it's very obvious which model it is! You should also check out Hammer and the Rojek slot mortiser. They are competively price wise if you consider the price of the router and building the steel stand for the Laguna. Also the design for the Laguna stand could be improved on considerably. Also consider the fact that the typical slot mortiser runs at 3,500 rpm to 5,000 rpm and is considerably quieter than a router which makes it much more a treat to use. Nice to see a convert from those chisel mortiusers. Rick
Edited 11/15/2002 7:53:47 AM ET by rsl
There's only one and I'm not sure it has a model. They also have a steel stand, which I picked up for $100. A very good purchase, in my opinion. There are other companies who make these things. Laguna also sells HSS bits that are over 2 inches long (cutting edge).
Hope this helps.
John
Thanks very much for all the input. The bid went in today, and I won't hear anything until early Dec.
JK
I worked in one big shop (http://www.thornco.com) that made tens of thousands of tenons on a shop-built sliding-table tenoner with two horizontally-oriented PC 1.5hp routers spinning the bits.
John,
I was wondering if you could elaborate on this setup, as I'm considering something similar myself. What size stock was being used, and how much material removed?
If both horizontal routers were spinning in their standard direction, one bit would be cutting "uphill", and the other "downhill". Was anything done to compensate for this, or did it simply not pose a problem?
Also, how was it possible to mount the two routers close enough together to get a relatively thin tenon? (I'm picturing two cutter heads arranged like those on a single-end tenoner). Were the two routers simply horizontally offset from one another?
Thanks in advance for the info!
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