I’m having terrible troubles with screws — sheering off, driver camming out, etc. I suspect it’s the screws and not me (I’m an experienced – but not expert – woodworker). I generally buy any old screws at the hardware store. This last batch, I’m ashamed to say, came from Home Depot. So, I’m thinking I should use better screws.
The Lee Valley Catalog promotes two varieties – Robertson and Spax. They both sound wonderful, like everything in that catalog is made to sound. Has anyone had experience with either? The Robertson line comes in three types, and they have unconvincing recommendations about the species of wood they are appropriate for (e.g. particle board, oak, maple OR softwood, cherry, elm).
I generally use the Fuller drill bits, power drive the screws 95%, finish by hand. I’m having trouble with red and white oak, and it’s not me, it’s the screws, I swear!
Replies
I have learned that I tend to need to drill a larger hole in hardwood than in softwoood. I tend to want to predrill using the smallest possible bit, in hardwood it is usually too small.
For screws you might try http://www.mcfeelys.com . I sometimes apply wax to the screw threads for lubricant.
Webby
You might try coating the threads with some paste wax before you drive them this will act as a lubricant and should help. Also the spax screws are a good product.
Good luck.
Troy
I second the McFeely's recommendation, although I've had good luck with the Lee Valley screws as well (I haven't tried the Spax screws--they're on my one-of-these-days to-do list). Although Robertson is a manufacturer of a full line of screws, the term "Robertson" is most often used to refer to square drive screws. (There's some history regarding why some Canadians get a little bent out of shape regarding the name Robertson and square-drive screws--a story for another day.)
Oak is going to give you trouble, no matter what kind of screw you use. It seems to be a property of the wood that it creates a huge amount of friction as you're driving the screw in. For that reason, using wax or other lubricant (e.g., Akempucky from McFeely's) will help quite a bit.
-Steve
Two things I do. When drilling large or deep holes I use Boelube on the drill bits.
For screws I have used soap, parafin wax, and straight paste wax. Have not tried akempucky. I found blocks of parafin wax at a Building 19 near Boston (a salvage / surplus type of chain) for $.49 a 1# block. I think I bought like 20 of them. So I have a very large supply of parafin so thats what I use most.
I use normal drill bit counter sinks. I have a set of taper ones, but they seem to be too large for the screw sizes they are meant for. So they are in a drawer somewhere seldom used.
Forgot to mention I stopped buying screws at Lowes and HD. Even with lube and using mid torque settings on drill / driver. I had a time where it seemed I was breaking them left and right. I specifically buy Hillman screws by the 100 count box at a local hardware. Useually a better buy too, as the screws get longer at the big box stores, they put less in them. But the price still goes up. Hillman you still get 100!
Edited 2/16/2008 8:15 pm ET by benhasajeep
Soap used on screws can cause rust and eventual failure. Also, regarding breakage, Carefully set the clutch on your drill driver by driving some test screws in scrap.
WD, I once knew a telephone company installer, who,
( before inserting screws into wood or drywall,) would spit on the screw.
Thinking that it was his way of showing disgust for the fasteners, I asked him if he hated that job.
He replied, "When the wet screw reacts with the gypsum,it corrodes and will never come loose" That same installer (I kid you not,) kept a toy bow and arrow set in his tool box and used it to shoot a string through hung ceilings to pull cables and wires across the whole maze of pipes/fixtures/ vents/in the tight space above the tiles.
Steinmetz.
Edited 2/19/2008 11:25 am ET by Steinmetz
The bow and arrow idea sounds like a good one. I too watched a telephone installer replace my service wire through a tree with a lot of small branches. He located a small opening in the branches and threw a small heavy ball through the opening with a string attached and the wire attached to the string. He went to the other side of the tree, retrieved the ball and pulled the wire through. There are more ways than one to skin a cat.
Edited 2/19/2008 2:35 pm ET by wdrite
Stein,
I have worked on a LOT of furniture that that guy repaired! Now it's obvious why those old screws are always rusted in place.
Ray
wdrite wrote: "Soap used on screws can cause rust and eventual failure."I'd like to know what experience wdrite, or anyone else has had, related to this. I'm framing a wood shed w/ a lumber storage loft above, so this structure needs some strength. I'm using 5/8" ply gussets to secure 2X4 diagonal fir braces between fir posts. I'm driving screws through the ply into the braces and using soap to ease the driving. What does anyone know, please, about the long-term effects of soap or wax on wood? Do those substances act as solvents on the cellulose wood fibre and so weaken the hold? Thanks to all for your contributions; I've learned a lot by reading what came up in my search for 'soap' 'screws'.
I've never had any problem with soap, but I've long ago switched from soap to a wax toilet ring. (The soap I kept near my bench dried out and would simple flake away if I tried to rub a screw over it, whereas the wax ring is always soft enough to coat the threads.)
Soap aside, you may want to reconsider using screws (especially if you're using something like drywall screws, or other screws unrated for structural applications). Many screws are brittle and don't handle lateral and shear forces nearly as well as simple nails do, since nails bend whereas many screws simply break.
I'm not saying this structure will fall down -- I'm just saying that if you're concerned with strenght, use a fastening system that has been tested, rated and approved for the use. Also, FWIW, you may want to post this Q over at Breaktime where you'll get the attention of folks more experienced with building structures as opposed to furniture -- and they'll give you this exact advice.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
Thanks for your reply, Mike.I'm using deck screws (#2 Robertson). No problems so far with breaking, but it's difficult to drive the screws all the way home without stripping out the sockets. Pilot holes likely would be a solution better than soap or wax, since there seems to be some questions about soap attacting water, corrosion, etc. I was trying to save the time of drilling first, but I'm thinking that it may not be worth the risk.In response to your suggestion to use a system tested, rated and approved, there's good sense in that, but I'm in the middle of this job, so I'm invested in my own design. I worked with a master shipwright (Vic Carpenter, Superior Sailboats) some years ago and while I wouldn't claim to have learned 1% of what Vic knows about wood, I learned a little about making wood structures strong, and I feel fairly confident that this puppy will hold. During this past winter while I was away, the uncompleted structure (then just posts and beams - all fir 4X4 - with only a few 2X4's for diagonal bracing) stood up and stayed plumb with over two feet of sopping wet snow on the makeshift tarp roof. I figure maybe two tons, anyway.I'm just now in the midst of installing the proper 2X4 diagonal braces between each post, with the ply gussets.I think my design is good; time and wear will tell. Just wanting to know about soap/wax and wood fibre breakdown.Thanks for your suggestion to post on Breaktime. I didn't know about that site, but I just found it at Finehomwbuilding.com.Cheers, John
If you're wedded to screws, and you are using deck screws, you may want to try Deckmates that are available at Home Depot. These are the best I've ever found for driving. They pretty much self-pilot, they have torx heads that virtually eliminate cam-out, and they resist breaking while driving as well.
(Don't know where you are, since your profile isn't filled out, so don't know if you are near a HD or not.)Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
I agree with ForestGirl. Get an impact screw driver.
Ryobi 18v impact and a battery from HD will run you under $150. I have used mine for 4 yrs and driven 3/4" to 3" in hard and soft woods. Never a stripped head. Just put 600 3' screws into a deck this weekend on 2 charges (Lithium battery). Don't need pilot holes on #6, 8, or 10 screws. Probably don't on the larger screws either.
As a friend once said: Once you go impact, you never go back. DA
The goal is not to
look professional but to be professional.<!----><!---->
jm,
I'm using 5/8" ply gussets to secure 2X4 diagonal fir braces between fir posts. I'm driving screws through the ply into the braces and using soap to ease the driving.
How about applying some Liquid Nails/glue and simply driving the screws through dry? If one happens to break just drive in another one or predrill if you feel the need to do so. Clamping the gussets to the supports would also ensure a good glue bond and it frees up your hands for driving the screws.
I suspect this business of soaping/waxing yer screws first is applicable to hardwood, not so much as softwood.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 7/22/2009 7:19 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
Hi, BobI agree: I would have 'glued and screwed' but I don't have clamps with throats deep enough for this application.
All my diagonal braces are up and held in place in a design similar to real post and beam, before I add the gussets. So holding things in place isn't a problem on this job.
None of the deck screws has broken yet. I'm just trying to avoid screw sockets stripping out before the screws are home.
Also, I've often used hard soap on screws in structural work, so this is a general question for me: Does soap or wax on screws cause the wood to weaken around the fasteners?
I'll use pilot holes until I know better.Cheers, John
I would think that wax, especially plain paraffin, would be quite safe. But my chosen approach with driving screws smoothly is an impact driver (in particular, a Makita 18V). Have yet to have a screw stick when using it (entire deck, various fix-it projects). Just last week, I fastened a 2x4 to a large framing timber in a barn, 3" screws, Deckmates, from an awkward position, no pilot hole, the screws zipped in like a charm. Using a standard driver with long screws like this would have been a nightmare.
Square-head drive the best, IMHO.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
JM
I have gone to the stainless square drive screws for decks and outdoor buildings. McFeeleys has them in various lengths. They go right thru the decking I am using and they pull the planks down well as they are not threaded on the entire shaft. I think I like the #8 head size only because that's all I have used. Might be an advantage to the bigger bugel head but I have no experience to mention.
I'm in a dilemna wondering about going to stainless for my furniture and cabinet work. They work so nicely but.. they are more costly over the long haul.
Might want to consider stainless and skip the wax.
good luck
dan
stainless square drive screws .. I used them for my sister-in-law's huge deck I built for her. They cost about as much as the material for the deck! BUT I love them skinny long screws.. Not one head broke off while driving them. And the head sort of disappears into the deck material. A great product.
"stainless square drive screws" Otherwise know as Fin-Trim. Yep, we used GRK Fin-Trims on our deck, sweeeeeet!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
>term "Robertson" is most often used to refer to square drive screws. >(There's some history regarding why some Canadians get a little bent out >of shape regarding the name Robertson and square-drive screws--a story >for another day.)How about today? It was Ford's fault. That doesn't mean ya'll have to keep sending tools up here with the worst two screw heads invented: slot and phillips. When you are used to square drive, using phillips or slot is like driving 16d's with your forehead. Think that fulfills my patriotic duty for the month. ;) Andy
Actually the Phillips head does a wonderful job of doing exactly what it was designed to do: be self centering and cam out under torque.
It was invented to be self centering for use with power drivers before there were torque clutches on the drivers, so it was also designed to cam out under torque. In sheet metal assembly, with pre drilled holes of a known diameter, and metal thickness, the torque is pretty consistent, and it was designed for just that application.
It does a really good of meeting it's two design goals. And, the fact it torques out makes it great for drywall screws.
It also makes it nearly worthless for woodworking.
Square or Torx drive are the best options.
Jigs,
Phillips head...
A friend of mine was doing some repair work a number of years ago. From under the truck, he asked his young son, who was "helping dad", to bring him a screwdriver. The boy, about 6 or seven at the time, asked, "What kind of screwdriver do you want, plus, or minus?"
My friend was, so to speak, non-plussed, until he visuallized symbollically the question: + or -
Ray
When I was a grad student, one of my fellow grad students (from China) used the same terminology.
-Steve
I like that + or - ... makes sense and would keep things simple.
Have a great day, Ray...
Sarge..
The boy, about 6 or seven at the time, asked, "What kind of screwdriver do you want, plus, or minus?"
I really like that. In all of the years of dealing with teenage students I have not heard that one. That's good.
Ray I'm still trying to get a student to back off the rachet with "no knucklehead-- counter clockwise"
The little digital weenies only know "lefty loosie and righty tighty"
I can't seem to get with that. I say it when I'm with the kids but I'd rather die than say that in front of my friend Ancient Eddie.
Whatever it takes I guess.
dan
dan,
If ancient Eddie is the least bit like my dad, he'd say, "G-d-mmit, boy, don't you know your left from your right YET??!!" Maybe you can try that one with the kids? Some problems never change. G Washington allegedly had trouble teaching his recruits from the rural outlands to start off on the right foot in marching. So he had his non-coms stuff hay in the right boot of the recruits, and straw in the left boot tops. Calling cadence went like this ,"Hay foot! straw-foot!"
In these days of digital clocks, counter-clockwise has lost its meaning. Kids think you want them to go back in time...
Ray
In these days of digital clocks, counter-clockwise has lost its meaning. Kids think you want them to go back in time...
Hey that ain't so bad. At least those kids think they're supposed to do something. Most of my students keep going in the wrong direction thinking you're talking about the clock-- not what they're doing.
later
Everything everybody above said, and...
I use a bar of soap cuz it's convenient (and smells nice), but parafin, paste wax, etc... all work well.
Predrill a larger hole in hard woods
I use Spax screws a lot, am real happy with them. Also, they are available at Home Depot.
An impact driver works way better than a drill with a phillips bit or by hand.
--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.net
See some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
>> I use a bar of soap I would rethink that. Soap absorbs moisture and can cause steel screws to rust. Soap can also cause a discoloration around the screw due to a chemical reaction with the metal. Use paraffin or a furniture paste wax. Either will work well.Howie.........
I broke two in a row , predrilled and wax threads
I look at the box made in china nuf said
bought at Westlake Ace hardware.
I've use Spax for years with wax or soap as mentioned. I bought a box at Lowe's about 3 months ago to fill in before I could get to Highland Hardware for Spax. Broke off the first two in a row and took them back. Not all made in China is crap.. but screws rank right up there with the Chinese plywood as most definitely Crap. :>)
Sarge..
I second the motion for favoring Spax screws. The head is what they call a "square-X," meaning you can use either a square or phillips driver. I've used them for at least thirteen years and can probably count on less than a hand of fingers the number of screws I've broken. We use them from #4 up to #14 for assembly and installation.Gary W
gwwoodworking.com
I've been getting them from Highland for years, Gary. Once I used them, they have been the weapon of choice for situations requiring screws. Good stuff..
Had a look at your site and was not aware you used to be an editor at FWW and the Boat Building gig. Glad to see you home on the West Coast. I really like the area up around Carmel and surrounding as I saw it first back in January of 1967 when I had to go to Ft. Ord for a short stint. Quite beautiful indeed around that neck of the woods.
Regards...
Sarge..
Make sure you use correct holes, both shank and pilot. Here is a chart. I have a better one on my work computer I'll try to post it next week.
If you are using brass screws run a steel screw into the hole first to cut the threads. Always use lubricant, paste wax is fine. (My father used to rub the screw on his bald spot to lube it.)
I don't drive screws with a power driver if they are going to show, too much chance of a cam out damaging the head. Get a GOOD screwdriver, (I like craftsman, the old ones made in the US).
I find Phillips heads to be easier to drive than slotted screws. I've not used the new-fangled square or torks heads.
As always, this advice is free and if it doesn't work you get your money back. Good luck.
You're not using "Piffin" screws are ya? Otherwise known as sheetrock screws.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Oh, ha ha. I only thought to hear about Piffin screws on Breaktime. No never, well hardly ever (use them). The other day I had to laminate two pieces of particle board, and throwing in some Piffin screws worked fine until the glue set. Once you take them out, no one will know.Sorry, Piffin.
The Home Desperate screws are probably cheepo Chinese hardware. McFeely's is a top source. Request their catalog, lots of useful tips.
I no longer use any soap type products to lube fasteners. They draw moisture which leads to rust and discoloration. I use wax from the plumbing department. The wax ring that seals the underside of your toilet to the floor flange.
I place some in a couple of prescription bottles with the childproof caps. Just dip the end of a screw into the wax and pop the cap back on. They are handy enough to keep in your shirt pocket, tool pouch or box and the cap keeps them clean without falling off.
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
You can steal church candles and they are a good mix of bees wax and parifin
Hahahahaha. You're my kind of guy!!!
I can see it now. Genec says, "Look Pastor. Is that Elvis over there?"
Hah, I was going to suggest the same wax toilet bowl ring and the smallest Tupperware jar with a pop lid.
I bought mine a couple of years ago based on a suggestion on Breaktime - stuff works very fine. I probably have a lifetime supply from that one ring.
One note on it, however, is that the wax has something else in it to keep it softer than pure beeswax - don't know what it is, but I'm careful to keep excess off of places that I'm planning to put a finish.
Mike
"Wax toilet flange ring"
And the beauty of it is that they don't cost anything. There is always an old one available that a plumber discards because he doesn't want to reuse it!
Ewuu!
PEN, Invest in Sheet metal screws They are hardened and tempered used mainly for metal.
Being straight (and not tapered)they penetrate better than common wood screws also they won't back out and get loose like tapered screws They come in a variety of gauges,screw and head types,lengths and finishes.
Another tip is to use best quality screw bits. I once bought a package of Dewalt screw bits and they all failed miserably.(I call them Default)
You can't go wrong with Apex bits.
Keep a hunk of soap in your apron to lube screw threads
A lot of failures are caused by rushing the screws with inadequate pressure and top speed, (instead of,heavier pressure and pulsing penetration.) Steinmetz.
Edited 2/17/2008 3:03 am ET by Steinmetz
Some of your problems may be caused by your driver bits rather than the screws.
Standard drywall screws use a P2 (#2 Phillips) bit and everyone probably has several P2 bits. Like everything else, these bits will eventually wear out, or chip, and start to cam out. That's when they need to get tossed out and replaced. I've had good luck with Vermont brand bits. They have "wear bars" in the tip and seem to last quite a bit longer than bits without them.
Drywall screws are also a poor choice for things other than drywall. Their shank is pretty small, the screws are pretty brittle, and they will snap easily if overtorqued.
I mostly use those deck screws from Home Depot. They have a beefier shank and rarely break under heavy torque. They also require the special "blue" bit that comes packed in the box. I don't know what it's called, but it isn't a P2. You can use a P2 to drive a deck screw, but the bit isn't a good fit. The "blue" bit won't fit in a drywall screw head.
Predrilling your holes and lubricating the screw threads are also very helpful, but using good bits - and the right ones - can also make a difference.
You might try auger tipped screws and use an impact driver. The impact driver goes a long way at "not" torquing the head off. But if you have crap screws there is really very little you can do because just about anything snaps the heads off whether you per-drill and/or lube. http://www.josephfusco.org
http://joes-stuff1960.blogspot.com/
PMan
I think you need something missed in the earlier threads. You need a screw - drill indexing card. They are cheap and available from MSC and other suppliers of screws. The one I am showing you in the photo is from Home Depot. I have dozens of them for students.
You take the wood screw and slide it in the oval/teardrop hole --when it stops you read what drill bit you need to use to get the threads to seat well and avoid splitting wood, breaking cheap brass screws, and the slots don't get torn up.
Photos: plastic tool and screws being measured.
The pen points to the slot I am referring to above.
Any wax or soap will help slipping in place. The importance of predrilling when you are going in hard woods should not be ignored. It will come back and bite you in the a$$. My technique: I establish thread grooves with steel screws first and then go final with the brass screw of the same size. Just me. I don't like soft brass screws but they are everywhere now.
I think you will be a happy camper if you get one of these and... use it.
dan
Thanks for the tip -- but I'm trying to emphasize that I do know how to size screws and holes -- I've sunk millions in all sorts of woods, so the problem I'm having now is probably the screw. I've had a look at the McFeely catalog and will probably try them out/
PM
I am assuming you are somewhere near P-bay?? I'll be coming up to Bath and onto the Phippsburg Penn to see family. I hang out around the area on the Harpswell and Phippsburg penninsulas. Got lots of friends I want to stop off and visit while I'm up that way.
The past few years I've had to stay over along the Connecticut River making my way up to Montreal to get my daughter. This year I'm going up to NH, Vt and over to Maine. Those lobster better be ready.
later
Most here have recommended the use of some lubricant to make it easier to drive screws. While this does work, I have also heard (don't know if I believe) that this also makes screws more prone to coming loose.
I see no place in woodworking for slot or Philip head screws. Torx, Pozi-Drive, and Allen heads make camming out or stripping a head very difficult though not always easy to find. Square-drive screws are readily available, though not all are created equal (cough Robertson). Most deck screws seem to have the inside of the head coated with finish which makes it hard to get a good fit between the screw and bit.
A good screwdriver bit makes all the difference. I've bought bargain-bin bits which broke soon after. The slot bits work well as brad-point bits now. The Philips and square-drive bits also broke under normal use. The best bit I own came from Kreg. With it, I can, and have, drive a square-recess screw into the ceiling and leave my 14.4 impact driver hanging from it, with the bit in the screw. True, every word of it!
Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Most here have recommended the use of some lubricant to make it easier to drive screws. While this does work, I have also heard (don't know if I believe) that this also makes screws more prone to coming loose.
FW
You don't believe that do you?? Please. When we get to the point where we wonder if a square drive McFeeley's cut screw 2" long is going to back out because of a little wax... its time to go back to golf.
later
Dan,
It's true!!! My fourth cousin twice removed told me so! By the way, he's the same cousin that tried to dry off his Bichon Frisé in the microwave after giving it a bath, and got AIDS by sitting on an infected hypodermic needle placed on a seat in a movie theater, and once woke up in a bathtub full of ice only to find that one of his kidneys had been stolen.
-Steve
Dan,
No, I don't believe that. However, we did believe that the Earth was flat at one time!Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I suspect it's neither the screws nor you, but the screwdriver, as others have mentioned.
Why use a power screwdriver, are you on an assembly line?
-Cameron Bobro
By "power screwdriver", all I mean is a driver bit chucked into a cordless drill with a cluch. I do it to save my wrist, elbow and their aged tendons.
Wasn't trying to be snide or anything, just never had good experiences with power screwdrivers. Still think it's the bits though.
When I drive screws in hardwood, I predrill with a tapered drill and countersink. Bits like this are rather expensive so I usually make my own. Choose a size that will drill a clearance hole. Take it to a bench grinder or strip sander and taper it from about 1/16" on the end back to about the length of the screw. Countersink with a separate bit. If I don't want to tie up another drill , I use a small brace or Yankee drill with countersink bit. Clearance drilling and countersinking are most important in hardwoods. In addition, I always keep a block of beeswax handy. A quick swipe of the threads across the beeswax makes driving screws go in much easier. Grinding a taper on a drill bit removes clearance and causes it to run hot but it is not much of a problem on small sizes.
A few years ago I popped for a boxed set of Fuller Bits. It was well worth the investment - but you can buy them individually I understand.
These are tapered drill bits in sizes #4 through #10 (I think). I use 6, 8 & 10 the most. You adjust the depth of pre-drill by moving the countersink head. You can even counterbore for a "plug" insert. A plug cutter comes with the set.
Frosty
"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
I like the Fuller bits too, and until the current box of HD screws, rarely had a screw break. As I've said, I understand about hole sizing for hard and softwoods, I generally lubricrate screws, especially in oak. That's why I think the trouble is with the screws and not me.I've written for the McFeely catalog and will try their screws. The McFeely catalog is much less airy-fairy than the Lee catalog which always tries to flatter you into spending money. Re drill bits -- apparently with McFeely screws you use the same size bit for both the pilot and tap hole.Another poster mentioned the HD deck screws with the special head/driver configuration. I have also had good luck with them for construction, but have never thought of using them for furniture. But why not, as long as you plug cleanly?
I've used Spax (made in Germany, I believe) screws for years. Buy them from Highland Hardware (1-800-241=6748). They use a square drive and have threads going all the way up to the head of the screw. You'll not be dissapointed...
The fuller tapered bits and an impact driver will solve most of your problems. I find regular drivers are way more likely to cam out than an impact driver.
Are Teflon coated screws readily available?
--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.net
See some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
Another "vote" for http://www.mcfeelys.com .
On White Oak I've stopped using wood screws entirely. I've switched to machine screws and I tap the holes. With brass screws, the heads would snap off before the threads would strip, were I to try to tighten them that much.
Lee Valley even sells "kits" for tapping holes in wood, but regular taps work just fine, if you use a smaller diameter drill bit than you use for metal.
White oak is definitely a problem -- but as the original poster on this thread, here is an update: I ordered a set of McFeely square drive screws (yellow zink coating, #8, 1 1/4 to 2 inch) and the appropriate drill/countersink combo. 1/8, no taper.I tried driving them into white oak with a cordless drill, with and without using the clutch. Absolutely no problems encountered: no camout, no broken screws, everything was perfect. So I'm a convert and convinced that that lousy HD screws were my problem, and not my technique. I expect that the Spax screws are good as well, as others have reported. Bottom line - avoid home center screws.
"Bottom line - avoid home center screws."
And that includes lag screws. I just broke two out of six. !@#$%
-Steve
I am more of homebuilder, and just a greenhorn woodworker. I have been using torx head screws from my local "high end" lumber yard" for many years and have loved them. I have tried other brands at the box stores with crappy results and frustration. These are called Big Timber, (made in Taiwan) and it looks like they are at least dist. out of Billings, Mt. All kinds of sizes, trim heads, ceramic coated, and I personally love them. I have no idea how many screws One driver bit can handle without getting stripped, but I have run thousands of them and still have the same bits working. Like everyone else says, pre-drilling correctly helps , and I have had no problems using these trim heads in beech, oak, bamboo, and other fussy materials.
Hope it helps, John
The square drive screws need a deeper hole for the drive bit to seat better. This goes for any screw head, harden the screw heads and the bits.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled