Replies

1. 
   john_c2 | Feb 16, 2021 01:37pm | #1

   There is no point. The only bevel that matters is the one where the edge meets the wood. That's all that matters.

   Getting a 30 degree bevel polished on the entire length of the chisel face is a lot of work. Removing most of that metal, to 25 degrees, on a grinder or very coarse stone is fast, and that part never touches the wood. Once that metal is gone, you only need to polish a tiny bit of metal to 30 degrees. Very fast.

   Doing an intermediate bevel gains you nothing.

2. 
   ChrisDiLauro | Feb 16, 2021 02:39pm | #2

   That’s what I figured, thanks. I really didn’t think it was necessary or that advantageous but I figured I’d see what everyone else though. Thanks

3. 
   fivebirdscustom | Feb 16, 2021 10:05pm | #3

   I do the tertiary bevel on plane irons and chisels and have had great results.

   The intermediary bevel just gives you a few more quick hones before you have to do the primary bevel again.

   It also lets me feel less guilty about doing my primary bevel at a coarser grit... LOL

   I can certainly see John C2's logic in that it isn't needed.

4. 
   johnpendery | Feb 17, 2021 07:06am | #4

   Sharpening gets pretty dogmatic pretty quickly, so I’d say if you are happy with your results just stick with it. I believe he would argue his implementation of a tertiary bevel is a time saving device. If you work in the same way that he does it makes complete sense. On the other hand if you sharpen using jigs it probably doesn’t. Sharpening boils down to frequency of sharpening vs how long you will spend getting to “sharp”. What is acceptable for both of those things varies dramatically from woodworker to woodworker. As with anything it’s good to keep an open mind and acknowledge that different methods of work do in fact work, but I’d say keep doing what you’re doing if you are happy. If not, give it a try.

5. 
   _mj_ | Feb 17, 2021 07:48am | #5

   The third bevel is nuts. Why remove extra steel you have not used? I am going to sharpen a spare plane iron to see how many bevels I can get on it. It will look like a disco ball when I'm done.

1. 
   john_c2 | Feb 17, 2021 08:12am | #6

   I've actually seen chisels that looked like that.

6. 
   DRBWWing | Feb 17, 2021 08:34am | #7

   I hollow grind everything so I guess I’m only doing a primary bevel?

   IMMHO Cosman often goes a little past the point of realty for most ww’ers, has a way of making people feel inadequate. I mean, the attention to detail - watching his dovetail technique is mind numbing to me - splitting a knife line?

   But, the guys got game, no doubt he is a good teacher and is a good hearted guy, too. I’ve leaned a lot from him, but I feel the “my way is the best way” reflects some arrogance & a turn off for me.

7. 
   johnpendery | Feb 17, 2021 08:57am | #8

   If you watch his sharpening technique it makes more sense. It assumes you have already established the primary bevel and it’s time to touch up the cutting edge. He spends a few seconds on the secondary bevel at 1000 grit to establish a continuous burr. He then moves straight to 16000 on the third bevel for a few more seconds then to the ruler trick. Hard to argue that it makes no sense whatsoever. I should add that I do not use a tertiary bevel, but understand why he advocates it. There are a lot of sharpening techniques that work very well. To each their own

8. 
   _mj_ | Feb 17, 2021 09:19am | #9

   I don't believe the ruler trick applies to chisels.

1. 
   johnpendery | Feb 17, 2021 09:27am | #10

   Agreed it definitely does not. I should have specified I was referring to his method on a plane blade. It’s the same with a chisel, except you would lap the flat back of the chisel to finish. I’m not advocating the tertiary bevel, just acknowledging its a technique that certainly works.

2. 
   john_c2 | Feb 17, 2021 11:12am | #11

   I do the ruler trick on most chisels. Seriously. Except for 2 paring chisels that I want dead flat.

   I'm doing 3 or 4 strokes on an 8,000 grit stone. The "bevel"on the back of the chisel is maybe a thousandth or two wide. That matters not at on on a dovetail. It takes 3 seconds, and I don't have to be fussy in polishing backs.

   Go ahead everyone, and hurl feces.

1. 
   fivebirdscustom | Feb 17, 2021 04:18pm | #14

   I did back bevels on some chisels for a while, but then discovered it really didn't work for me. But, if it works for you, have at it! LOL

   Seriously, the final product and our own personal happiness is really all that matter ain't it? I tried to be as clear as I could earlier that I understood we have a different way of using our tools and a different approach to maintaining them (in fewer words, of course). So, I hope I didn't come across in any negative way.

   I don't understand how anyone gets upset if someone works differently than they do....

1. 
   john_c2 | Feb 17, 2021 04:29pm | #15

   No, no. Didn't come across as negative at all. Nope.

9. 
   _mj_ | Feb 17, 2021 11:48am | #12

   Look out!

   
1. 
   john_c2 | Feb 17, 2021 01:44pm | #13

   One of my favorite quotes came during the Michael Jackson trial. One of his specialized house staff, earning minimum wage, was telling all on the witness stand.

   After the testimony, a tv analyst said he was surprised that she wasn't more loyal to Jackson. The other analyst said "You shouldn't expect a lot of loyalty from someone you pay minimum wage to clean monkey shit off your walls."

   I love that line.

10. 
    hoovermd | Feb 17, 2021 10:38pm | #16

    30 degree for me, then I use a couple of pieces of plastic under each side of my honing jig to get the small 25(ish) secondary bevel.
    I use the plastic form the old Bookers bourbon boxes. Looks to be adout .045" thick.

11. 
    thebardowl | Feb 18, 2021 01:48pm | #17

    This prompts consideration of a semi-parabolic honing technique, with an adjustable guide based on the second derivative of the little-known Planck Edged Tool Optimization Formula. If my calculations are correct, one would only have to do the full sharpening sequence every other leap year. (Every third leap year for plane irons used in high-angle frogs.) In between, honings could be done by simply breathing heavily on the edge. (A ten-second Clint Eastwood squint works, too, but most of us will never master this technique, no matter how often we practice the “I know what you’re thinking, punk” line in the mirror.)

1. 
   TaunTonMacoute | Jan 23, 2022 11:29am | #21

   Priceless!

12. 
    _mj_ | Feb 18, 2021 02:31pm | #18

    Now we know where the Bookers went...

13. 
    dustindawind | Feb 18, 2021 02:39pm | #19

    Hollow grind and hone. I don’t know why people make it more complicated than this.

14. 
    TaunTonMacoute | Jan 23, 2022 11:29am | #20

    Honing the primary grind is perfectly fine (the hollow makes it a self-jigging operation) or you can do a slight lift off the primary grind and hone a secondary. The primary grind is the hollow created at the grinder.

    Intentionally trying to create a tertiary bevel is absurd on its face.

15. 
    jharveyb | Jan 23, 2022 07:28pm | #22

    I have a grinder set up to grind my chisels and plane irons to 25º. I have an ancient Eclipse honing guide that use to hone to 30º. I have a 400 grit diamond plate and a tan Norton stone (also ancient.) My final stone is a very smooth, hard Arkansas stone. It has been hard to hone long enough on the Arkansas to remove all the slight scratches from the Norton. So I have started pulling the blade back into the honing guide about 1/32", focusing the last honing on the very tip of the blade, where it matters. One could call this a tertiary bevel, tho the next time I sharpen, it is functionally just a part of the secondary bevel when it hits the diamond plate. It makes it possible (or quicker) to get a very polished, scratch free edge. Then I finish on a leather strop with buffing compound.

    I have mostly acquired used hand tools over the years, and rarely have found one that was properly sharpened. Mostly sharpened freehand by people who sharpened the edge itself, gradually increasing the angle of sharpening, to the point where the tool wouldn't cut. Freehand sharpening is OK, I guess, but there is always the risk of getting a blunter and blunter edge. It takes me 10 seconds to put my blade in the honing guide. Worth it for the peace of mind. And yes, I am practiced at freehand sharpening of the blades that won't mount in the guide.