OK, so how do you set yours (on a chisel)? Not the degrees but the technique. I was using the Lee Valley Mark I last night on a 1/4″ chisel, didn’t quite understand the directions so I went to trying to do it free-hand. Didn’t get the crisp transition from primary to secondary that I’d like.
OK, tell me about your degrees too if you’d like. This was for paring out a jointed inside corner to finish off a rabbet that was made using a router bit.
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Another proud member of the “I Rocked With ToolDoc Club” …. :>)
Edited 12/30/2005 2:02 pm by forestgirl
Replies
I just use a "micro" bevel, which I make by lifting the heel of the bevel about the smallest amount I can feel. With a bevel hollow ground from the stone, I don't need a secondary bevel to reduce the amount of steel to be removed when honing. No idea how many degrees. The purpose is just to toughen the edge a bit. I keep it quite small--perhaps a half dozen strokes on a hard arkansas stone--so that it is removed every time I go back to rehone the edge.
David Charlesworth uses what he calls the "ruler trick" to put a micro bevel on the back. After he's lapped the back flat but not shiny, he sticks a thin metal pocket ruler to the stone at the near edge, which tilts the iron being sharpened just a bit. Saves time lapping the back, anyway.
John
I think you only want to do that on a plane blade. I think you want to keep the back of a chisel flat. If not, I'd like to hear what advantage a back bevel has for a chisel. I would think it would make it more difficult to get a flat, perpindicular cut on dovetails, for instance. Let me know what you think.
Jeff
Jeff. For clarity, he mentioned that he was wanting a secondary bevel angle on the bevel side of the chisel; not a back bevel. You are correct that a back bevel on a chisel would be useless in most applications. I think that the posts cover his question very well.
My bad. I thought he mentioned the ruler trick, from Charlesworth. That's about putting a back bevel on plane blades. Sorry.
Jeff
Jeff... micro bevel on the back of a plane blade is fine, but on a chisel its a no-no... gotta keep the back absolutely flat... no ruler tricks here I'm afraid.. ;)
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Edited 12/30/2005 5:44 pm by Midnight
Mike, I am sure I read a post recently in which someone was quoting from Charlesworth and decribed that 'coin trick' as being applicable to chisel backs-ofcourse now I cannot find it. Maybe he got the wrong end of the stick?
It depends on what one is doing with chisels, but I wouldn't like to be doing a lot of paring if the chisel has even the slightest back bevel.Philip Marcou
Phil... I've DC's sharpening DVD... he emphasises during the demo of the ruler trick that its a definate no-no for chisels... backs gotta be kept flat n mirroresque for obvious reasons...
That's not to say that the ruler trick isn't a fine string to yer bow... so long as its kept to plane blades...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Thanks Mike. I assume you are about to partake of the traditional 2plus weeks of continuous festivity there in bonny Scotland-mind how you go.Philip Marcou
what...??? n waste priceless shop time..?????? ;)Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
That's exactly what I was trying to tell the other fella.
Jeff
You're right of course. I was just pointing out that one way to a secondary bevel is to tip your jig up, like DC does w/plane backs. Not recommending back bevel on chisel! It's just so darned slow typing one-handed, figured maybe she'd come up w/a genius method on her own given DCs outside-the-box way of microbeveling plane backs.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
It's all good! I just didn't want Jamie to put a back bevel on her chisel, and then have all the nightmares that come along with that!! Thanks for replying and clearing that up.
Happy New Year
Jeff
He's a she (assuming you're referring to the OP of this thead). No harm, no foul. With the name of Jamie (back before there were very many of us) I used to always end up on the boys' home room list <g>.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
The L-V Mark I is designed to allow an outomatic secondary bevel angle of either 1 or 2 degrees. The brass knob on the end of the roller controls the eccentric of the axle. It has an index mark. Straight up is 0. First detent is 1. Second detent is 2 degrees. The chisel stays unmoved in the clamp during the entire honing process.
Jamie
On top of what vice said, if you look at the roller, and it's distance from the bottom of the honing bed, always start your bevel in the top position. After creating your bevel, by pulling out and turning the side pin, as vice says, you will be moving the roller further away from honing bed, thus lifting the chisel up, and creating a microbevel. As Steve says, about a dozen swipes on your polishing stone/sandpaper/media whatever............. and you'll have a nice, polished microbevel about 1/16th of an inch across the width of the chisel. Never take the chisel out of the guide until you're finished.
Happy New Year
Jeff
I got all the stuff figured out about the Mark I after I had put on the primary bevel -- I had read the instructions, but didn't realize they were talking about the arrow on that little knob. In a hurry, bad, bad, bad. By that time it was too late to set it pointing up the way it was supposed to.
Several more chisels to sharpen, so at least I get a second chance. I hope the Mark II comes with better instructions -- with the Mark I they tried to fit everything on the back of the cardboard of the package, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
The MkII is a great device but it doesn't hold chisels particularly well (see archive for posts on this. Even Rob Lee chimes in.) Stick to the MkI or an eclipse for chisels. I use all three at various times.
The Mark I isn't particularly good at holding chisels either, near as I can tell. I suspect the Mark II is much better because it has that wide strap that goes across, instead of a single round contact point.
My problems stemmed from not having enough focused brain power to figure out the instructions. Now that I understand how the Mark I works, I can do it right, set the thing for the primary bevel and then turn that little knob to get the desired secondary bevel.
There some kind of little stick-on cushy square thing that came clamped bewteen the blade holder and the base of the guide. I have no idea what that's for (well, I have an idea but not at all sure how it's supposed to be used). I'll read through the directions to see if they say something, or if that little bit is an afterthoughtforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie... if you stick that neoprene pad to the underside of the brass clamp screw it'll grip your chisels a bit better...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Jamie and Mike...The rubber pad goes on the black surface that the round brass foot contacts, not on the foot itself. It is die cut to fit just right. It does hold the chisels much better than the MkII. Many posts here concur with this. Use an Eclipse for chisels....very simple and not skewed at all.
I enjoy the many posts from both of you. I am Mike also.
Thanks for the info, VJ. That's the first place I thought of putting it, but (and this is what makes me think it was an afterthought): if you stick on there, it covers up those nice parallel lines that are supposed to help you make sure the chisel is square to the guide! The pad has self-stick stuff on it, so obviously they mean for it to be permanently stuck on, no?
Let me confirm: The original LV guide actually holds chisels better than the Mark II. That surprises me, just looking at the two designs side-by-side. What, do you think, makes that the case?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
if you stick on there, it covers up those nice parallel lines that are supposed to help you make sure the chisel is square to the guide!
That's exactly why I stuck the pad to the screw clamp... With larger chisels, the pad provides a cushion... with the smaller chisels, the pad will conform to the profile of the bevels giving a slightly better grip..
That said, I found that the Mk 2 was better at holding irregular shapes, plough plane blades for example... Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
The rubber pad is the whole thing. The MkII is metal-to metal. Rob Lee defends it by saying it is just a guide, not a sharpening fixture. It is up to the user to stabilize the chisel. I know Ive said it before, but get one of the $10.00 eclipse knockoffs and use it for chisels. The LVs are for plane irons. I think Lie-Nielsen will have one of their own before too long. It will be right.
Cheerio
Excuse me for jumping in here but I have had a lot of problems with holding chisels securely in the LV MK II. I believe the reason for this is that the surface of the upper clamp jaw, the main body of the honing guide, is hollow and therefore there is no surface area to grip the chisel. Further compounding the problem, both the upper and lower surfaces have a very hard and slippery powder coating. If you look closely at the upper clamp you will notice that this coating forms a small radius on edge of the two vertical surfaces that contact the chisel. The tip of this radiused coating is not sufficient to hold the chisel securely. (Note that I purchased this guide specifically to sharpen chisels. I use the Eclipse guide for my plane irons.)
In an attempt to correct the problem, I have filled the hollow section of the upper clamp pad with epoxy. After honing each of the clamp surfaces on fine sandpaper to ensure that they were flat, I glued 400 grit sandpaper to each surface. Unfortunately, this helps but does not completely cure the problem. I would be interested to hear if anyone else has found a satisfactory solution to this problem.
I'll be interested to hear, also. In the meantime, might I recommend that you drop an email to Robin Lee at Lee Valley. They are very appreciative of customer input, and directly responsible as far as I know for their designs, so I'm sure he'd like to hear your opinion.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
He has heard my opinion previously on this forum and based on his comments, I don't think he believes that he has a problem. This is due, in part, to rave reviews from others that have not experienced this problem and in part from favorable reviews of various woodworking magazines that have a vested interest in maintaining a good relationship with prolific advertizers.
Rob Lee has responded to this problem elsewhere in this forum. I specifically asked him about the the skewing problem with chisels in the MkII. His answer is that no one device is going to be 100% in every aplication, which I took as a satisfactory answer. I had also asked for the steel parts to be done in stainless, but he said that cost was prohibitive ($10 more) and that stainless is more troublesome to machine. The MkII is the best plane iron fixture that I have used, but I don't even think of it when it comes to chisels. There I would use the MkI or more likely, the Eclipse.
I have heard that Lie-Nielsen may be developing a sharpening fixture of some type.
(Sorry if this post echos my earlier one)
Edited 1/23/2006 2:12 pm ET by Vicejaws
Edited 1/23/2006 4:07 pm ET by Vicejaws
You don't need a microbevel on a 1/4" chisel. If you insist on one it will take only three or four strokes on your finest stone to microbevel a chisel that narrow.
The point behind using a microbevel is to speed future honings. A 1/4" chisel hones quickly in the first place.
Only your widest plane blades and chisels are real candidates for a microbevel and even then it is arguable.
If you don't use microbevels then you'll never have to re-grind unless you chip an edge.
Edited 1/23/2006 10:06 am ET by BossCrunk
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