Well, after about 24 hours of reading, and 3 hours of talking to sales people, I have narrowed my bandsaw choices to three, the MM16, the Minimax E16, and the Agazzani B18. All are going to cost me some substantial bucks, but I like to try and buy what is going to make me happy with my work, not just happy with the money I saved. Does anyone have any input on how these three machines might rate or compare? The MM16 and the Agazzani cost me about the same, at least this year until the cost of cast iron will cause prices to rise. The E16 is substantially less, by about $600, but I have read so little about it, probably because it is so new.
Any input would be welcome,
detailman
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Replies
Detailman,
I was in your situation 2 yrs ago, torn between Minimax and Laguna. They are like Ford and Chevy, each having a large following and both heavily advertised. Before I made up my mind I decided to visit the Agazzani distributor in L.A., Eagle tools. I ended up buying an Agazzani 18" because I was able to pick it up in my truck at the dealer and also because of the favorable way I was treated by the salesman. I can't offer any comparison between it and the MM models because I've never used one. I can only say my saw works as I expected it to, and have had no problems with it. Gary
Gary,
Thanks for your input. I am really torn at this stage. I have never actually seen any of these saws, let alone used one. So I have asked the rep.'s to help me get in touch with someone local so I can feel and touch. It is like furniture, I got to see it and feel it to really appreciate it.
Thanks again,
detailman.
I'm in pretty much the same boat right now as to looking for a larger, quality bandsaw. I haven't ruled out Laguna yet, but it looks like you have. Was this based on their cutomer service reputation or something else? I have to admit, there are a few things I like about their saws better (at least based on a review of the DVD's for both MM and Laguna). I like the Baldor motors, the rack and pinion table adjustment, the pin holding the two halves of the table together, and I think I prefer the fence on the Laguna. I'm not really sure about the difference between the guides, but you could always get the Laguna guides as a retrofit if you wanted.
I haven't contacted Eagle Tools yet about the Agazzani saws, but I will. Do you happen to know if the prices on their web site are current or not? I purchased from them in the past when I lived on the West Coast and if it's still Jesse there, he is first rate.
Out of curiosity, did you consider the MM S45 at all? That was the one I thought I wanted at first, but now I'm thinking that a more HD saw would be a better long-term buy.
I don't know where you live, but I'm up in New England and there is a Woodworks show in early Jan where both Laguna and MM will be present. I figure that will be a good place to check out the saws in action and separate reality from all the hype. If you're not close to where one of these shoes will be, I'm sure that either compnay will put you in touch with someone in your area who has one. If they really believed in their saws, they wouldn't mind giving out a third party to verify, right? I know MM has already mentioned they know a guy in my area that would help me get the beast down to my basement shop!
Good luck with your decision.
Kevin Adams
Hi Kevin,
Thanks for your input. I do believe that Jesse is still there, but I spoke more frequently to Raul. In regards to the S-45, yes it is still very much on my list. I am giving consideration to the E-16, S-45 , and the Agazzani B-18. These were listed in order from low to higher pricing. The E-16 apparentlly can be bought for appprox. $1,400 + shipping. The S-45 is approx. $1,600, with some blades + shipping. The Agazzani is the more expensive one, approx. $2,100 + shipping, and probably compares more closely to the MM-16 machine from Minimax. All these machines, with the prices listed above, are on sale until 12/31/05. After that, who knows. Some tough decisions for me. I have given myself a deadline of Dec. 27 to decide, giving me a little more time for research, possibly a "touch and feel" test, and some general quiet time to think about buying what I really need.
Anyway, thanks for your input and thoughts. Good luck with your decision.
detailman
PS--they are probably all good machines, and with my level of skill, it is me, not my machine, that is usually the limiting factor.
When and where is the woodworking show in Jan.
Brian
Hi Brian,
I live in CA, and the only one I know of in Jan. is in Pomona,CA. There may be others across the country. This date is off the Minimax web page. I believe it is Jan 26-27. I am not sure I will even make it since it is about 400 mi. from where I live.
detailman
There is a Woodworks Show at the Eastern States Exposition Grounds in West Springfield, MA on Jan 13-15. Go to http://www.woodworksevents.com
I am looking for a 14 in. saw. What do you think about the General 90-100 (sheet metal) or the 90-125 (traditional cast iron) machines? I have not seen any reviews on the 90-100.
I hate to throw a wrench into the works, but I tried the Aggy saw, the Mini-max and the Laguna LT18 at a show last year and I bought the Laguna. I previously owned a Powermatic 141 and it is not really a fair comparison. The Laguna, after watching the video to set up the rip fence for resawing, resawed a 14" piece of hard maple into 1/16" sheets just to see if it could. I've become so spoiled I left the powermatic in my shop to saw all my contours and leave the Laguna for resawing. I resaw 6/4 hard maple for drawer sides, do a glue up and still get 5/8" drawer sides. The resaw King blade and ceramic guides are impressive. FW rated this saw # 1 also.
I have the MM-16 and I can't say enough good about it. Previously had a piece of c--- Jet, enough said there. I tried to compare to a Laguna, couldn't get past the Laguna rep badmouthing the competition. I have resawn 10" cherry and 8" maple and it was like cutting butter, really. Personally, I like the Lennox Tri-Master blades for resaw work. Buddy across the street can't get over the smoothness of my cuts. Tension is both fast and plentiful, check it periodically with a better tension guage. All the adjustment are smooth and easy to get to (beware of the bottom guide adjustments on some saws). I will stack my bearing guides against anyone's ceramic blocks anyday. The minimax was a little pricey, but they are absolutely responsive and 110% supportive if needed. I'm glad that I chose this one, just wish that I didn't have to wade thru the dung to get here. If you call Jeff he can hook you up to see and or try? someone else's machine. He did it for me.
"I tried to compare to a Laguna, couldn't get past the Laguna rep badmouthing the competition." Can't tell you how many times I've heard that story! What is it with the Laguna guys?! I walk away when I hear that kind of cr*p.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I've just had a couple of conversations with a Laguna sales guy and he did NOT bad rap the competition - even though he had several openings. HOWEVER, I've never - outside of a car dealer! - experienced the hype and $$ games playing. "Let me go talk to my manager and see what I can do." Next day, when I didn't bite on that: "My manager just walked by and put this paper on my desk. Do you have a pencil? One. Six. Nine. Zero. blah blah blah"
I bought the MM S45 :-). From an actual ex-pro woodworker (Sam Blasco) who spent all kinds of time with me helping me understand options, tradeoffs etc. and actually steered me to the lower cost solution based on my needs.
Please let me know how you like the S45. Is this the new 45 with the 12" resaw or an older version? I've got a deposit down on a MM saw, but haven't decided if it'll be the MM16 or S45N. I'm actually leaning towards the 45 as I really want something larger than 16" (actually closer to 15" when you get right down to it). If I had the room (and the $), I would bypass the 16" and go right for the 20".
Kevin
It's the new S45N. Still on the boat - due sometime in Feb. After a long discussion with Sam at MM he recommended this. With the new bigger motor he's very impressed with it. As a hobbyist the work I do was hard to justify the extra $600+ (incl. carbide blade) for the MM16. Also my jointer is 8" and planer is 13"; there is a very low probability that I will want to resaw greater than 12" (I know, I'm supposed to get out the hand planes - BTDT, don't want to get into that religious discussion!).
I may end up ordering the 45 from the same boat as yours! They haven't updated the photo on the website yet, but they do show it (very small) when they alternate pictures on individual pages (the little "feature" photos to the side). It's a fair amount different that the one on the site--nicer fence for one. I'm basically a hobbiest, too, and can't imagine I would ever resaw anything greater than 12" either. Plus, I'd rather have an 18" saw than 16". We'll have to "compare notes" when our boat arrives!
Kevin
I am glad I am not the only one out there contemplating the S45 v MM16 decision.
I too have a deposit down on the S45, but after visiting another WW forum have thoughts of upgrading to MM16. Like you I am having a hard time justifying the additional money for the MM16, but from what everyone has told me on the other forum, they all say go for the MM16.
Still I remain undecided. One thing I do know, is that I will be very happy with either saw. MM's reputation is great.
Joe
Joe--
I'm going to a Woodworks show in a couple of weeks and we'll spend a fair amount of time in the MM booth. They won't have the 45 there, but there will be a 16 and 20. Pretty much all the feedback I received said the same thing...I'll like either saw, but if you could afford the 16, it really is a different class. It's only $400 difference, which isn't chump change mind you, but over the life of this kind of investment isn't that much. My biggest issue (if you could call it that) is that if I was going to go HD, I'd really want the 20" saw. The MM16 is really only a 15" saw when you get right down to it (albeit with a 16" resaw and huge motor!) and I'd like something at least in the 18" size (and the 45 is closer to 17"). Wish I had the room for the 20, but that's not in the cards for my basement shop...
BTW, I understand that the fit and finish on the 45 (which is SCMI's own saw) is actually the best of the bunch if that helps you at all...
If you haven't checked out the MM Yahoo forum, please do as there have been some good threads on there about the 45. One guy who bought one in Oct gave quite an in-depth review including all sizes, etc.
Good luck in your decision.
Kevin
There's more advantage to a larger wheel than just resaw and throat. The smaller the wheel, the more severe the stress on the steel band as it alternates between being straight and having a curve conforming to the shape of the wheel.
At least one person at either Laguna or MiniMax told me they don't recommend using blades 1" and larger on saws less than 20", because blade life is adversely affected.
OTOH some here have pushed those limits with success. And some low-tension bands (such as Laguna's Resaw King) are designed for acceptable life on even small 14" wheels.
Before you decide on a size, it might make sense to contact the manufacturer of the larger blades you might want to use and see what they have to say.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
Besides the money, what are the benefits of the new S45. I understand that it is basically a 18 inch saw, but there are someother features that make this saw desireable. What are they?
Joe--
If you haven't checked out the MM message board via Yahoo, I would suggest you do that. There have been some great threads about several of the bandsaws, esp the MM16 and S45. The new S45 has been enhanced with 12" resaw (used to be 10"), a bigger motor, and a much nicer fence (with "high/low" feature). It also has a mobile base that has been built into the base (but it doesn't rest on the wheels all the time). The guides have been improved as well. All-in-all, it's just a big step up from a regular 14" with riser or even the Jet or Rikon saws. Fit and finish is top rate (even better then the HD line of MM saws).
I still am between the MM16 and the S45 myself, but really think the 45 is all the saw I would need for many years to come. Good luck with your search. Feel free to contact MM (I've been dealing with Dain who is a good guy) to get more info.
Kevin
Kevin. You and I are in the same boat and Dain is our navigator!
I received my MM16 last week and finally got the 220v line finished yesterday. This saw is a serious beast. It's is really beautifully made. I don't expect to ever buy another bandsaw (and I'm only 37!). I'm waiting for some new blades to arrive so I can test it out, but for such a huge motor on the saw, it runs very quietly. I was also considering the S45, but went for the year-end package deal for the MM16 and CU 300 Smart Combo machine (which unfortunately fell off the truck during delivery, but I've told that story in another thread). My MM customer service experience with respect to the delivery problem has been flawless. I'm very excited to get started using this equipment! Brian
Yikes, that gives me the creeps. Can't stand that kind of cr*p. Just based on the stories I've heard here about Laguna and their sales approach, I wouldn't buy one if I won the lottery tomorrow.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
That's a big reason why I dropped 3 bills more at MM!
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