Have you seen that article? I scanned it last night before falling asleep. Intriguing, but I don’t get how the bandsaw is useable when tucked into a counter like that. What am I missing? I even watched the video, he didn’t demo the bandsaw.
What did you think of the idea in general? The idea of DC in the center of a group of tools is pretty appealing.
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Another proud member of the “I Rocked With ToolDoc Club” …. :>)
Replies
"Have you seen that article?"
Hi FG,
Where/when did it appear?
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
It's in the Tools and Shops issue that I just received.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
My issue was in my mailbox today.
YES! I thought EXACTLY the same thing when I saw it. I glanced at the article and wondered if the band saw rested on a platform that slid out from the island allowing you to work facing the cutting edge of the blade instead of off to the side.
I like the idea of an island or a "pod" for the layout of the tools. You can also model the island concept by simply arranging your power tools so that work flows in a circle around the tools. Planer, jointer, and tablesaw all oriented on the sides of an imaginary triangle or square with the dust collection in the center.
His layout meets his expectations and the article seemed to indicate that he felt he was faster/more efficient in his work and his use of his space and that's what was important to him.
tony b
Thanks, Forestgirl! I haven't received mine yet.-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
My DC sits between the TS and the bench; on the other side of the power pole is the jointer and planer setup. I have blast gates for all the machines. When I add a band saw, it'll go to the left of the infeed path for the TS. It's very handy! Thank goodness I've got plenty of juice to the middle of the shop. :)
How do you deal with the added noise from the DC? I am adding a DC and it never occurred to me to locate in the shop due to noise.
Chuck
Alan DeVilbiss again, "Island" author in FWW #181. My shop has a 1.5 HP dust collector. Standing in front of the RAS (right under the dust collector) measured at my ear level with my Radio Shack sound level meter, C weighting, I get 80 db with the DC running and the 5" RAS blast gate open, no other equipment running. Turning on the RAS (spinning, no load, with 10" blade) jumps the reading to 94 db. Crosscutting a 2X4 gets it up to 110 db. The 13" DeWalt planer running, not cutting, reads 98db. So as wood shop noise sources go, the DC isn't so bad. My DC normally runs only when one of the island mounted machines is started, and all are noisier than the DC, except the band saw, which is about equal in noise with the DC.
I built a ceiling mounted circulation/exhaust fan that uses a belt drive furnace fan type centrifugal blower and furnace filters. I leave that on just about all the time to remove incidental fine dust from the air. It's quiet, registering 63 db directly underneath the fan. If I'm doing something that introduces lots of fine dust into the shop air (e.g, sanding with a hand held power sander, cutting dados in MDF with a portable router) I open a couple of blast gates and let the main dust collector run continuously, as it is very effective at removing the really fine dust from the shop air. Even then, the DC is quieter than the tool I'm using.
Thanks for the response and the ideas.
Chuck
Alan, I read through the your article on the train last night and your tool layout seemed very intuitive. Oddly though the first thought I had when I looked at the sketch was that for me I would have switched the positions of the bandsaw and the planer. I like the idea of having more support fore and aft of the planer to avoid snipe. I gather from your responses that you work mostly smaller pieces so that may not be an issue. I think if I had the space, a cluster would work well. Nicely done though. Your shop has the clean analytical look of an engineer. I envy that.Andy"It seemed like a good idea at the time"
Andy,
Thanks for the comments and compliments. As you observe, everyone should think through the shop tool arrangement to achieve one that fits his/her own methods and preferences. Especially important if you opt for a built-in style such as mine, because there would be significant cost and work to modify it after completion.
Actually, I find the planer works fine on long (8-10') stock with the shorter infeed/outfeed tables. The feed rollers hold the work down at the planer and I can stand at the end away from the planer as I start the cut, supporting the free end if needed. Then I move to the outfeed side as the stock is leaving the planer, again supporting the free end until the cut is complete. There's a short clip showing a 7' long board going through the planer at about 1 minute into my video at http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/wvt119.asp and http://www.taunton.com/FWN/Workshop/WorkshopArticle.aspx?id=23974
Also I find the longer supports at the bandsaw are really helpful when resawing or ripping longer stock. In those cases it's usually necessary to stand close to the bandsaw blade to follow a penciled or scribed cut line and/or apply hand pressure to hold the stock against the resaw fence. Attached is a photo of the 7' long board (the one in the video) as I prepare to start a resawing cut.
Alan
Allen,Thank you for the fine article and follow up on the "island" concept.
I an nearing completion of a new wood working shop and now am seriously thinking of changing to this concept.
Just a quick question......I'm assuming from the photos that the in and out feed top surfaces are formica....is this correct?Thanks again,Wayne
(waynewood)
Wayne,
Yes, the countertops are covered in standard thickness Formica plastic laminate, except for the section right under the dust collector which is varnished MDF. No good reason for this one to be different. I made it first, and then decided the plastic laminate was worth the extra expense and work.
Happy woodworking in your new shop. I'd enjoy seeing a photo when you're done.
Alan
[email protected]
Alan,Thanks for the confirmation.....it's much appreciated. I think the formica surface is the way to go as well.
I'll include a photo or two once things come together.Wayne
Alan,
I really liked the layout and "flow" of your set up. What really caught my attention was the dust collection at the blade guard in your table saw. Could you give a description and maybe post a picture of the system. You have no idea how many times I repeat the video with a magnifying glass!
Thanks
Manny
Manny,
Thanks for the kind words, and I'm pleased that you are finding some useful ideas in my article and video. At present I don't have dust collection setup at the blade guard on the table saw. I ran a 4" duct ending at the top of the electrical column centered above the island for "utility" collection uses (top side for the router table and table saw and for sucking up stray chips and dust on the island and shop floor). I plan to add collection at the TS guard.
Alan
Alan,
So that is holding the blade guard... can you describe the system? Because it looks like a rigid pipe that you lift ( in the video you are pulling it down)..
Thanks
Manny
Manny,
The vertical part of the blade guard support is two pieces of square steel tubing (walls about 0.090" thick). The upper piece is 40" long, 2" square (outside dimensions), and is welded to a bracket that is lag bolted to the building roof trusses. The other movable piece is 52" long, 1-1/2" square (outside dimensions), is fitted inside, telescoping into the larger fixed piece. The blade guard itself is a piece of 3/4" thick MDF attached to the movable tube with two machine screws. I fitted up a jam screw with a knob handle at a lower corner of the fixed tube, which I use to lock the position of the movable tube. I attached a piece of 1/4" rope tied to one of the guard attachment screws inside the movable tube, which feeds through both tubes, up into the shop attic space, over a couple of pulleys, and is tied to a counterbalancing 9 pound weight. See the attached photos taken inside the shop attic.
The guard will slide down until it contacts the saw table. At the highest possible position the guard clears the saw table top by 38". My saw table top is 38" above the shop floor, the shop has a 10' ceiling. I set the guard to clear the work by about 1/8", then lock it into position, preventing the rear of the saw blade from lifting the work off the table, helping to prevent kickback. Whenever the cutting operation allows, I also install a splitter behind the saw blade, which fits into a slot at the rear of the MDF guard.
Alan
Alan,Thanks for all of the input on the article. I have been following this thread and finally got the mag. The system looks great. My only question is in regards to the use of the router table. It looks like you use the tablesaw fence as the fence for the router. I have a router built in to my current tablesaw but have always found standing on the end and feeding from right to left to work the best. This has been a problem for me in arranging my shop because I always have to leave the end of the tablesaw open to use the router. How does your router set up work for you?Jeff
Hi Jeff,
The router table setup works good for me. About 80% of the time I clamp the router table fence to the cabinet saw rip fence (perpendicular.jpg, attached), usually as shown, occasionally on the other side of the rip fence. I usually arrange it so that feeding the work into the bit (away from me) is against the bit rotation (not a climbing cut), very much like feeding work into the blade on the table saw.
I like this configuration because of the ease of adjustment of the router fence relative to the bit. I planed the fence thickness so that when the working surface of the fence is aligned to the bit centerline, the rip fence gauge lines up on an even 1" mark. With some simple arithmetic I can set the bit to the desired cutting depth to within 1/64" or better just by using the rip fence gauge. If, after a test cut, I find that I need to tweak the cutting depth, I make the adjustment by moving the rip fence, observing the position change on the rip fence gauge. If I want to make a very precise adjustment, I use my vernier adjustment fixture (vernier.jpg, attached). The threaded rod is 1/4"-20, 0.050" per full rotation, about 0.008" per flat on the jam nuts). If I need to move the fence temporarily, I clamp the vernier fixture into position, move the fence, then come back to the exact original position against the vernier. If a router cut places the bit clear of the fence and a tall fence is not needed, I just use the rip fence without clamping on the router fence. BTW, I use the vernier adjuster for precise rip fence setting on table saw cuts also.
Two aluminum "T track" channels are let into the counter top, to allow a traditional router table fence position (parallel.jpg, attached). I use my fence in this mode occasionally.
Alan
Thanks for your response. It all makes sense now. My router is set up similar except the fence that the t-slots run in are in the opposite direction to yours. I will have to reorient my t-slots to run front to back on the tablesaw table. I did a plan of my shop on the grizzly site using the island and looks like it may work well for me with some modifications. It will have to be a summer project because of moving equipment outside.Jeff
Alan, if you have time I have a question about your island setup. In the photo you have a small table attached to the infeed side of your tablesaw to help support sheet goods. Could you provide some specifics about the infeed table and how it attaches to your fence? Thanks for the great article and for sharing information on this forum.
Bill
Bill,
My infeed table is 18" wide and 54" long, working surfaces are covered with plastic laminate (same as counter tops) to hold wax. When it's not in use it hangs on the wall over the woodwork bench, alongside my crosscut sleds (see stowed.jpg). In use it attaches to the rip fence guide tube and is supported by a 1/2" thick baltic birch plywood folding leg, which is hinged to the underside of the table (see side.jpg). The rip fence extension on the infeed table is 2" higher than the table top (see top.jpg) and aligns accurately with the table saw fence. In bottom.jpg see the attachment cam clamp lever in the locked position. In underside.jpg, the infeed table is placed upside down on the tablesaw top to expose details of alignment and attachment to the rip fence guide tube. The raised surfaces labeled "A" are the points of contact with the guide tube vertical surface; I planed/sanded these to make the infeed table fence parallel to the saw fence. Shims at "B" are glued to the underside of the 3/4" fir plywood extension table top; they define the contact points to the top of the guide tube and are thicknessed to make the saw and infeed tabletops align vertically. At "C" is the head of a 1" long 10-32 machine screw protruding into the cavity routed in the table underside to clear the rip fence bracket. I drilled an under sized hole into the plywood and threaded the screw into it without first tapping it. When the fence is placed on the table saw, this screw head contacts the end of the rip fence bracket, and is used to adjust lateral alignment of the two fences. The attachment clamp at "C" is made from a piece of 1/4" x 3/4" aluminum bar stock, connected to the cam clamp with a length of 1/4"-20 threaded rod.
To use the table, I first position and lock the saw rip fence, then place the infeed table onto the guide tube, slide it to the right against the rip fence, then tighten the cam clamp. This infeed table is one of my most used table saw accessories, particularly when cutting sheet goods on the tablesaw. I can handle 4' x 8' sheets by myself, and I can make a finish cut out of a full sheet. I demo this on the video, http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/wvt119.asp . I can finish cut melamine or veneer board in two steps (a shallow scoring cut before the through cut) from a full sheet. And I've used it to help me handle large work pieces on the router table, which is located next to the table saw.
Let me also say that there's a case for making an infeed table without a rip fence extension. Alignment to the saw rip fence (lateral and parallel) ceases to be an issue. And you could locate the table so that it is centered under a wide workpiece rather than over to one edge (right edge aligned to the rip fence). I personally like the extended rip fence length to help me start the cut straight and smooth on a long workplace.
Alan
Alan, thanks for taking the time to respond and take all the photos. Regarding your folding leg, do you lock it in the down position or is it just hinged with the weight of the table keeping it from collapsing? Again, thank you for all your posts. Bill
Bill,
After sliding the table up against the rip fence, I lift the leg end of the infeed table a little to let the free swinging leg find the vertical position, lower it to the floor, and tighten the cam clamp. The clamp at the saw end locks in the horizontal position of the entire table, gravity keeps the floor end of the leg in position, so no leg locking mechanism leg is needed.
Alan
Alan,
Your layout has grabbed my interest and I plan on arranging my machines in a similar manner but with out the cabinets initially.
Thanks for a great article!
Craig Warnock
Here is a link to the video FG is refering to. The article is in issue #181, which was mailed to subscribers as early as last week.
http://www.taunton.com/FWN/Workshop/WorkshopArticle.aspx?id=23974
- Matt
Hi FG
I had the same reaction.
Would anyone set up a tablesaw so that the operator stands perpendicular to the movement of the wood?
How would you resaw without being able to sight down the cut?
And what about swiveling the table for bevel cuts?
--tom
[Avoid schadenfreude]
Edited 11/22/2005 4:42 am by Trappist
I think the idea is interesting. My shop is too small since I do not have the clearance around such a big island to feed long boards. Having said that, I did mount my router the same way, so I am part of the way there. I will definately consider it as I am expanding my partial basement somewhat. Maybe I can put some tools in a central location.
His General idea for cramming all the machines in as small a space as possible is common in medium size profesional shops with 2 or 3 employees as well. The first time I visited a medium sized custom shop I was amazed that all his machines were crammed into an area about the size of my garage even though he has about 2,000 sqft. I've seen that repeated in every medium-sized shop I've visited since. When I moved from my garage into my new warehouse I proceeded to do the exact same thing. All my machines are stragicly located so that the in/out feed areas overlap and every thing is as close as posible, with the dust collection in the center. This leave the most space possible for the really importaint stuff... assembly and finishing.
Mike
Hi everyone,
I'm Alan DeVilbiss, the "Island" article in FWW #181 is about my shop. Several posts in this thread are about the band saw mounting I used, so I’m responding here instead of posting individual replies.
I use the band saw for free hand cutting (e.g, violin plates, patterns in thin aluminum sheet), cutting circles with a jig, occasionally a rip cut. But much of the time I’ve spent at the band saw has been re-sawing (e.g., veneers for violin sides, 400 sq. feet of walnut parquet flooring). I usually use a fence while re-sawing (visible mounted on the band saw in the video http://www.taunton.com/FWN/Workshop/WorkshopArticle.aspx?id=23974 in the sequence where I’m sliding the sheet of MDF onto the cabinet saw outfeed table). I do sometimes re-saw “freehand” guiding the cut along a penciled line, and I find this easy to do in my island installation. The blade is 4-1/4” inside the outer edge of the counter top, so I find that the counter is no more of an obstruction while re-sawing than the work piece itself. Attached is a still photo demo of the resaw position.
For me the advantages of this arrangement are the compact footprint, the infeed and outfeed support for long stock, and a permanent connection to the dust collector. The only disadvantage (again, to me) is the impairment of the tilting table function. I’ve used this saw for about 25 years (until four years ago mounted on a mobile base) and have yet to tilt the table from the flat position. Of course, I realize others may not want to compromise this feature of the band saw.
Thanks for responding, Alan, it's great to have your ear for this discussion! forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi Alan, thanks for responding. While I do not think your solution is the best for me, I really enjoyed the article. It certainly has me challenging some of my shop layout ideas. Thanks for writing and taking your time to answer the questions here.
Let's see, you retired from HP? I was at Tek for a lot of years. Must be something in the business because I actually arranged my shop very much like yours. I did keep the bandsaw separate, and the drill press. But other than that, I've got a central island for the machines and DC. Works for me, but I can understand it might not for everyone.
I think a lot of it depends on what you get used to and the comfort level achieved with familiar work methods.
Nice article by the way.
Hi everyone. I built my workbench on the lines of a Tool Dock system. With my bench top tools mounted on individual inserts. It has a 4" dust port on the back and works very well. I built it out of a couple unfinished oak cabinets fromHD. My dust collector(2hp Grizzly) is outside my shop and ductwork troughout the shop. Here is a link to the page on my site. http://www.hoistman.com/HoistMan/Workbench.html have a look and the plans to build it are there too. Total cost about $200, problems solved priceless. DanInfo for all http://www.hoistman.com Bad spellers of the world- Untie
I visited a shop on the prairies last June that had a cluster of machines - lathe, thickness planer, jointer and about 3 large stationary sanders - all of which were located almost in the centre of the shop and hooked up to a central dust collection system. The dust collection system also connected to his other equipment e.g. bandsaw and table saw that were located at the front end of the shop near the overhead door. The dust collection system itself was located at the back end of the shop in a small well insulated room. The entire shop was probably close to 2,000 square feet in size. The dust collection system reportedly worked great.
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