I am looking for the one saw that can be taken to any jobsite installation and can regularly handle:
1. Accurate mitered cross-cuts of trim/moldings up to 5″ wide, like any common sliding compound miter saw
2. Rip molding strips to accurate widths, like any benchtop TS.
Anyone have any ideas?
DR
Replies
More of a question for the Breaktime folks.
Do a google search for Norsaw. The ultimate builders portable saw that rips and crosscuts long lengths. Pricey but there is nothing like it anywhere. There's a couple of them listed on http://www.exfactory.com Bet a lot of folks over at Breaktime don't even know about this saw. It's designed to be outside in the weather as well. It's been advertised in Fine HomeBuilding in the past but haven't seen it lately. Not that I really read FHB...kind of flip through it on occasion.
http://www.ernex.no/ Norsaw site!
Edited 5/9/2006 7:51 am ET by RickL
Edited 5/9/2006 9:43 am ET by RickL
i think your asking for an expensive miracle machine. i dont think what your looking for exists. the norsaw wouldnt work for long lengths of trim unless you had a couple of helpers to move the wood as you cut it. you could try a radial arm saw but i think the weight and setup might be a big pain. i use a 12" slider, portable table saw, and some times a jig saw. if i want perfect work i use the perfect machines. if you do find it i would like to know though.
Tmaxxx
Urban Workshop Ltd
Vancouver B.C.
cheers. Ill buy.
Edited 5/9/2006 10:36 am ET by tmaxxx
The Norsaw does everything a table saw does and it's an upside down chopsaw so it would do everything he wants it to do in one package. It truly is the ultimate builders saw.
after reading a bit more on this norsaw heres what i have concluded.
on the small portable unit, it can only cross cut a 2x4 at 90 deg. at 45 it can only cut a 5/8 x 7 board.
the next unit up uses a 14" blade so i would guess it can cut larger. but its 220 lbs. you need a second person to help you move it. i can take any of my tools to any floor by myself.
the third unit is 305 lbs.
and all units have a 1 1/4 arbour. can we get those here in north america
now these may be good quality machines but im guessing there big dough. theres lots of tools that can do the job needed but that dosent mean its easy to use, convenient, versatile, and the best tool for the job. it seems like a gimmick type machine.
but you have answered his question.
if 'ring' wants all that in one saw and convenience then perhaps a mitre box and a good hand saw is best.
do you have one or tried one?
im curious if hes interested in this machine and why he dosent want to use the conventional set up?Tmaxxx
Urban Workshop Ltd
Vancouver B.C.
cheers. Ill buy.
Conventional is relevent to the individual.
Those are well established saws in Europe and not a gimmic. Very well made and rugged and pricey of course. Of course he can buy seperates for less than the cost of a Norsaw but he asked for a saw that would do all that.
There's also a miter saw that has a small table saw mounted above the saw arm. Funny looking thing but it would also fit the bill perhaps.
There used to be a contractor saw that was made in New Hampshire I think that the blade was on rails and could be pulled like an upside down radial saw. Sears had one in the 50's as well.
Been in the woodworking field for 35 years and worked for a tech at a dealer for a spell so got to see a lot of stuff most folks wouldn't know about. We had a used Norsaw we took in trade.
Saw blades can be bored to any size you want and bushed back down to smaller arbors.
Can you give me a lead on the miter saw with a "small table saw mounted above the arm"? It sounds like the right answer, but I don't know if anyone makes such a thing.
The Norsaw is just too expensive. I can easily solve the issue with 2 separate saws for under $1000. I am trying to cut down on the amount of stuff we carry to installations (mostly kitchens), but I won't do it at any price.
Thanks,
DR
I think that the EZ Smart would be a good choice. The Repeaters can give you as many cuts of a width as you want without measuring. The square is great for Cross cuts. The new miter will give the abuility to do the angles. All you need to add is a good circular saw. You can also use th same rails for a little it of almost anything you can think of.
I'm not familiar enough with the EZ Smart to judge. But it seems to be meant for cutting sheet goods, which is not what I need. What I need to rip on the site could be, for instance, an 8' length of molding that is 1" wide and needs 1/4" taken off the width. Would it do that, easily?
DR
That is a misconception that people have all to frequently. The EZ Smart was designed as a replacement for a table saw and not to strictly be used as a panel cutting saw. Go to http://www.Eurekazone.com and look in the photo galleries. In fact the EZ Smart is a much safer way to do small cuts. Once you get yourself re-educated it is also as fast.
Burt
I haven't found it to be all that fast but I'm new with it.
That is the reason I put "once you've educated your self". Especially if you are using the repeaters and the square together, you can move right along.
Burt
fine for repeat work, but if, say, it's a quick rip you have in mind, different story is my guess even with experience.
Storme,
In general, I find it as quick if not quicker on a job site. I'm sure there are times when it might take a little longer, but there are also times when it significantly quicker. I don't miss loading and un loading that 75 pound portable table saw.
Burt
The EZ guide will work with trim as well as sheet goods. You just need to be able to use the clamps to hold the trim. So you might need to work out some jigs to hold things exactly as you want, but I suspect that it will work.Which is not to say that some other saw won't do what you want.
Rip molding strips to accurate widths??
I'd think a SHARPENED pencil and a good tape will do!
I think you might find what you're looking for in the Bosch portable. Its not real expensive and you can add the optional/detachable out feed supports to handle the longer stock without a second pair of hands. When I was selling tools we had about a 25% return rate on the portable saws. Mostly because people were expecting more from them than they were capable of. Its a good, durable little jobsite saw. I still use my little old 8" Makita that I've had for years.
Please tell me which model you are thinking of. I don't know of any Bosch miter saw that will also rip.
DR
Neither do I, I misunderstood. I thought you were looking for a table saw.
You are describing a radial arm saw perfectly. Growing up (family of builders) we lugged a craftsman RAS to all the jobs. We used it for gang cutting cripple studs, cutting birdmouths on rafters, ripping lumber, trimming out, and building fences. The down side? The lighter machines that are easier to move are difficult to set up and don't hold their settings as well. They are fine for framing and most trim work, but will frustrate you if you expect perfect miters on your crown. There are RAS that hold their settings and are as accurate as a miter saw but they are way too heavy to be considered portable.
I can do some pretty nice on site work using my miter saw and a circular saw with a long, accurate shooting board.
Mike
If you consider a RAS, you might look for a used Inca/Eumenia 810. No longer made but it's a light saw with some design innovations that increase its precision/ability to hold settings. There's also a router carriage attachment so that you can run an overhead router set up.
I had one of those a few years ago. They were very nice tools and I remember 2 specific problems. The motor seemed to be underpowered and I kept bumping the fence and knocking it out of alignment.
We have a RAS, but it's much too much trouble to move around for regular installation jobs. I even have a PM 64 with 52" fence that we used for extended jobsite work (6 weeks at one site.) But these are for exceptional jobs. Two days every week we're going out to someone's house for 4-6 hours of mounting cabinets. My aim is to try to streamline everything to make those few hours as economical and as painless as we can.
DR
I agree it is too much trouble. That is why I bring my Dewalt 706 CMS and a shooting board for ply. If I really need to rip lumber on site I have a Ryobi bench top saw with the rolling base built in. It is the only Ryobi tool I own but it is perfect considering I have only used 4 or 5 times. It has consistantly recieved good reviews, even in FWW and FHB.
As far as speed the Ridgid, Ryobi and Dewalt have excelent integral saw carts the set up in seconds. I have the Dewalt miter saw horse and it literally sets up in 30 seconds. So I can set up both tools in less than 10 minutes including the getting it out of the van. The multi function tools mentioned above take longer to set up and are a PITA to use compaired to having dedicated machines.
If you really are looking to streamline instalation I'd sujest not doing any panel cutting or ripping on site. I use story sticks, lots of them, and have exact templates for the instalation before I start designing. When I cary in the cabinets the most I have to do is a little scribing with the jig saw or belt sander. The other option is to find a good installation crew and sub out the installation. If your shop is buisy then you should not be leaving it to do installations.
Mike
try this url
http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/products.php?cat=Flip-Over%20Saws
available in the EU for years now. One day they will cross the pond.
Eric
in Cowtown
What the heck is that? I've never heard of something like that. I am trying to find pics of it in the table saw mode. I found the UK version of Dewalt and there are no pics of this machine in action there either. However I DID see something that is missing from the US Dewalt site............ TOOLS. They have large radial arm saws, dust collectors, large band saws.... I can't believe it. Why the heck isn't that stuff availible over here?
Mike
Eric,
This is exactly what I was thinking of. Thanks for the link. Since I'm located in Israel, it's a different pond we're talking about, but I'm quite used to importing something on my own if it's what I need.
DR
If you want something smaller for narrow rips you could look at the Makita LH1040 or the Dewalt version of the same thing. Picture follows.
Dieu vous benice....I wish I could get one. Good luck to you....I dunno how many times I've posted this heads up about these devices in NA wwing forums, it just ain't available to us plebians yet, for whatever reasons. I suspect marketing. Once we all bought a chop saw in all variations, a table saw in all variations, then the powers that be will see fit to even mention such devices in N. Am. wwing rags. I get my far share of consumer and trade rags and not a damn one of em on this side of the pond even mentions them. Oh, they can advertise and prosthelitize on Euro handtools, but that's the extent of their published knowledge. Personally I doubt that any kind of tool expert could be that insular, let alone believe that the insularity could be endemic in an entire industry of trade woodworking rags. Would you not agree that that is fodder for a conspiracy theory?Glad to help. Really glad. Let me know if you get one and how it works out. Of course, since these ain't mentioned round these parts, there obviously ain't no feedback either.Eric in Cowtown
Eric,
As a longtime American expatriate, I have a somewhat different view of the geographical oddities of marketing. The marketers are only 50% to blame - they are selling what people want. If I had to characterize the American WW consumer, I'd say that he's very locked into the methods and tools he's familiar with, not to mention hardware etc. Probably more insular than most other places I am familiar with. Living in a small country obliges people to look elsewhere. Americans (of course, I mean Canadians too as far as this is concerned) just don't sense that need to look around. When I moved to Israel I had to import everything, I mean everything, that I needed. Nowadays it's much easier, but I still don't have any problem ordering a saw from England if that's what I want. Believe me, they'll be perfectly happy to sell it to me. It's only with American suppliers that I often encounter "we don't ship outside the USA". Not all, of course, but it's common. Unbelievable in the 21st century. But the internet will gradually change that; it has already done a lot, like make this conversation possible. Regards,
DR
You are right about our resistance to change. It has taken 80 years for there to be signifigant change in our cabinet saws! And that was met with tremendous scepticism.
Mike
Eric,
Just as a footnote to the thread about jobsite saws - I just ordered (from the UK) the DeWalt "flip-over" saw DW743. Cost is equivalent to $840. I'll let you know how it plays when it arrives. Thanks again for pointing me in the direction.
DR
I'm using a deWalt flipover saw on site (it isn't mine, it's the client's). I've only been using it for a day, it does the mitre bit fine and flips over to become a bench saw. It's heavy enough so that it doesn't skate around when you feed it. I think you can get extension tables and other accessorries to extend the ripping width. I believe this was originally made by Elu - very popular with shopfitters in the UK some years back.
Tim-
Thanks for the added info. I'm looking into both the Makita LF1000 and also the DeWalt you mention. One small question - does the DeWalt miter cuts past 45 deg.? i.e.- can you cut 47 deg? And how is the rip fence in table-saw mode? (OK, it was 2 questions)
DR
As for the mitre, the markings only go up to 45 degress - the thing hasn't been used for a while and is ratrher stiff and I don't have the instructions. Ripping 1 inch MDF was fine - but without the extensions you only have around 8" width. The fence is a mixture of steel and alloy but solid and doesn't flex.
Hi Ring,
I've been especially happy with my Bosch 4000 portable table saw, especially since I modified the blade guard assembly (following the instructions at http://www.garymkatz.com) converting the run-of-the-mill blade guard into a genuine riving knife.
I added the accessory sliding outriggers to the back and left side for added stock support, and when whacking full-size sheet goods I support the stock with an old B&D Workmate and a scrap of ply for support to the left. When I need it, I take a shop-built crosscutting sled along (I made two: one for accurate 45-degree miters, and one for 90-degree crosscuts).
I have the scissors-style folding stand, which works fine for me. They didn't come out the the wheeled stand until after I'd bought my 4000, and although the wheels would occasionally be useful, I like being able to divide the weight into two discrete packages, making loading and unloading easier on my back.
I've been running a Forrest Woodworker II, and am very happy with it in the 4000. The arbor is long enough to support a dado set.
The Makita, coupled with a Rousseau stand, is also a nice rig. However, when I was shopping, the Makita would not accommodate a standard 3/8" X 3/4" miter gauge bar. I don't know if they ever upgraded it to acept a standard miter gauge.
In the interest of full disclosure: when I have a lot of crown or decking to cut, I may take my 12" sliding compound miter saw to a job instead of the Bosch 4000; sometimes I'll take both.
Good luck with your decision,
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
I believe they sell a miter saw in England that has a small table saw above the miter saw using the same blade. I think I've even seen an ad for one by Dewalt. Don't know how well they work and have not seen one in the USA.
Joel, and All who sent advice -
Thanks for the post. I already ordered a DeWalt "flip-over" from the UK. I'll post a report as soon as it arrives and we go for a test drive.
DR
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