I’m building a Stickley design bed that is very large and of couse has many many stiles (spindles) what have you. Soon I will venture into the very tedious, nerve racking, and unforgiving realm of “the glue up.” In the past I always uses different varieties of PVC type glues eg Tightbond. Right now I am planning on using a slow setting PVC (30-40 min open time.)
What I’m interested in is some advise on other types of glue that have longer open times but still have the performance required in a bed. I have looked into plastic resins and epoxy but havn’t found the difinitive answers I’m looking for on these adhesives. I’m using QS White Oak.
Please include brand names and where they are available if possible.
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Anyone have any knowledge on this?
You might find some information to consider in this link.http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=21822
Been there done that ! My solution was to change the plans and not have all the mortises for the slats. What I did was to run a full dado the whole length of the upper and lower head and foot board rails. Glued up the head & foot boards, then cut the slats just long enough so that they could be put in sideways. Dry spaced them and used a pin nailer from the back to secure them in position. Then made filler blocks that stand 3/32" proud of the dado and only used glue on their bottoms and pin nailed. The filler blocks were left a little loose fitting so the slats have a little room to grow and contract as seasonal humidity changes. The Legs and head/foot board rails are Full Mortised and glued with titebond III. Mattress rails attached with hardware from Rockler.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Edited 7/21/2006 10:45 am ET by BruceS
gcg,
This is probably not what you wanted to hear, but I found it much easier, faster and just as sturdy to do my spindles another way. I routed a grove in the upper and lower rail and then slid all the spindles between those two for the initial glue-up of the M&T on the ends. Then I went back and put in spacers between the spindles with a touch of glue on the bottom of each spacer...everything was flush and difficult to see any difference. Obviously, I did a dry run first...
Here's a way to do it in two stages. The techique is to only glue one end of the spindles at a time. Put glue on one end of the spindle and/or mortice and only dry fit the other end into the mortice. The dry fitting keeps the spindles in alignment until the bottom ends dry. Now remove the top morticed piece and glue it in place.
The key to any complex glue up is to run through a number of dry fits. And I mean go through all the steps except the actual addition of the adhesive--mimic it though. This ensures that everytning fits correctly, that you have your clamps pre-set, adhesive where you can reach it and have the steps down pat. Get someone to help you and be sure he/she goes through the steps with you.
Years ago I had a big glue up and the first run through took about 25 minutes. After 4 or 5 practice runs, my wife and I got it down to under ten minutes and the glue up went perfectly.
Consider also, that every spindle may not need to be glued. I did a piece where only a couple were glued. The others were dry with a brad driven through from the rear. If you are making a headboard and/or footboard, you do not need the glue every spindle.
Finally, if you are in a hot area, be aware that your adhesive will set up quickly. Don't rely on the time on the label. That's based on 70 degrees and 50% humidity.
I have not used it yet, but Titebond III claims about the longest open time of any adhesive.
Thank you,
That seems to be the way I'm going. Brads and dados are out of the question. I do like the idea of not gluing every slat, I just don't want them to rattle around someday from little hands yanking on them. I will definitly go through a few dry runs. I also thought of doing it in sections as you mentioned by gluing up all of the slats b/w the top and bottom stretchers, letting it dry while clamped in the whole assembly (posts and all) and then just gluing up the mortises for the stretchers and posts. Thanks for the advice.
Epoxy is my choice for when I need extra assembly time. Most brands will have fast and slow hardeners, and each will vary according to temperature. The hotter, the faster it will kick, and also the more depth to your glue pot after mixing the faster it will kick.I have done several projects where it took as much as an hour of open time from beginning the glue-up before it was all clamped. Thickened epoxy makes a very nice lubricant on wood, so hard to fit joints go together easier when they have been buttered with it.Most of the water-born adhesives will have a quick tack, once the water is absorbed or evaporated, but there is nothing that evaporates from epoxy, and until it is solid, it can be wiggled around all you want without affecting the bond. not so with most other glues.Straight epoxy tends to be brittle and thin to use as glue, but you can change the properties to suit your needs with the additives that you use. Almost all of the brands that I have used have a booklet of directions for using their product, and you should get that and read it to gain some understanding of their use. I would list a number of good sources for you, but I just noticed that you have not filled out your location on this planet, and I have grown tired of trying to help people who make it hard for me to do so, so I will just stop here.
Sorry to make your life difficult. I'm in Milwaukee, WI. We have a local Woodcraft but the only epoxy I have seen there is the gloss coat which I'm know is now suitable. Thanks for the tip and some brands would be appeciated. I can always order off the net.
gcg-I second the advice given by Keith. I just finished a set of chairs that have 6 curved slats on the back. They each went into there own dedicated mortise. I personally used PVA or PVC glue for these. Only because I kknew I could get them into there mortises pretty quickly. Also because they are chairs and epoxy tends to be brittle and I worried about the brittleness of the glue failing in years to come. Unfortunatly at the moment I lkive in Australia so I can't really recommend any glues, I use Epiglue which is a 2 part epoxy. Works get for me and has a nice open time to work with.Kaleo
>> Also because they are chairs and epoxy tends to be brittle and I worried about the brittleness of the glue failing in years to come.Actually, slow set, two part epoxy is the perfect adhesive for both new chairs and repairs to old chairs. Epoxy does NOT harden to a brittle state. It always remains somewhat flexible so it maintains its strength in joints that may "work" or be stressed like chairs.In the shop I used to be involved with, we manufactured a line of semi-custom furniture for a high-end interior designer. Because chairs take more abuse than any other furniture item coupled with the high risk of injury in the event of a failure, we undertook some testing of adhesives. Slow set, two part epoxy was the clear winner. We never were able to cause a failure and we never had any chairs come back that had joint failure. Marine and aircraft use of expoxy shows the same performance.Adhesives like hide glue, urea formaldehyde and casein all dry very hard and brittle. While stong, they all will fail with repeated racking stress. Our tests all showed failures of these adhesives as well as PVA adhesives.Howie.........
Sorry to sound so curt, I just don't think I need to bother posting sources to someone who may live on the other side of the earth, when they probably have closer sources, and not likely to want to add overseas shipping. I have not used this one for quite some time, but I do like the product.
http://www.systemthree.com/dealerlocator.asp?state=Wisconsin&cat=All&Submit=GOIf you are using the colloidal silica to thicken with for gluing, I am not sure if gloss maters. You may want to check with West Marine, they normally carry a couple of brands.The source that I have been using for the last ten years or so is,
http://www.fgci.com/ When I started using this brand, their 5 gallon price was not much more than two gallons of the more commercial brands.I see you still have not added your location to your profile. Why don't you do it now, and maybe I won't jump on you next time.
Or you could use a glue injector to add the glue after assembly is completed. It is best to also complete the finishing before injecting the glue as this makes cleaning the squeeze out very much easier. I kind of thought that these tools were overpriced at first but having used them on several projects I am quite impressed. I can assure you that you'll have a more thorough spread of glue than you could ever get by gluing prior to assemblly.
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