Replies

1. 
   dirtstirrer | Mar 31, 2005 01:26am | #1

   Eric,

   I use a Freud.  It's a good blade, but....

   I bought it envisioning the wood savings, easier cutting, ect.  After using a thin kerf for a year or so though, I think the extra flex that they bring is a bad compromise for their attributes.  This one at least seems to be deflect in the different densities in a board.  Not enough to be a huge problem, but enough that you have to work on the sawn edge with a plane a bit more then I think should be nessecary.  When this one get dull, I'm going back to the old reliable wide kerf. 

   P.S.  I don't use a stabilizer because I like to have the extra depth of cut.  I'm sure a stabilizer would make a difference in the deflection, if your particular style of WW is compatible with one.  Mines not.

   Steve

   
   

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   Edited 3/30/2005 6:32 pm ET by Dirt Stirrer

1. 
   JohnSprung | Mar 31, 2005 02:31am | #2

   It should be a question of proportion.  If you reduce the diameter in proportion to the smaller kerf, the deflection should be about the same.  Of course that would limit the thickness you can cut.

    

   -- J.S.

    

1. 
   dirtstirrer | Mar 31, 2005 06:24am | #8

   Sounds right John, but who wants an eight inch blade for their ten inch tablesaw?

    Steve

2. 
   forestgirl | Mar 31, 2005 02:50am | #3

   How old is you blade, DS?  I thought the newer TK blades were supposed to be pretty stable.  What's the blade model number?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   dirtstirrer | Mar 31, 2005 03:39am | #5

   Hi FG,

   My blade is a TK 306, I think.  The lettering is getting scuffed pretty bad so I could be off on the model.

   Don't get me wrong, it's perfectly servicable, but the 1/8" Delta blade that came with my last saw cuts a smoother kerf.

   I bought it at Lowes about 1 1/2 years ago, and it has cut a pile of lumber.  I think it was in the $40 range, so I feel I've gotten what I paid for.  After using both, I just don't think there is an advantage to thin kerf.

    Steve

1. 
   forestgirl | Mar 31, 2005 06:01pm | #10

   Hi again, DS, I'm going to persue this so, in the general context of the thread, we're comparing applies to applies, etc. 

   It looks to me like the TK300 General Purpose blades lean a bit more toward speed than quality (the balancing act, you know).  The TK900 Combination blades probably give a smoother surface.  (I use the full-kerf version, and it provides an excellent cut surface).

   Another thing to keep in mind is the thickness of material, especially when ripping.  Neither of these blades will do their best work in material thicker than 1.5"  forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   dirtstirrer | Mar 31, 2005 08:37pm | #11

   FG,

   Thanks for the info.  I didn't figure my blade was Freuds top of the line model.  I do think however that thin kerf blades do not have much use in my shop.  The benifits for me are outweighed by the downside.  Like you said, neither of these blades will work very well in 1.5"+ stock, and I seem to rip thicker then that quite often. 

   Nothing against Freud, or any other blade maker for that matter, but I don't think thin kerf is as good as I once hoped. 

   BTW, regular season starts soon!!!

    Steve

2. 
   forestgirl | Mar 31, 2005 09:25pm | #12

   Hi Steve.  A clarification here:  The <=1.5"  factor isn't related at all to the kerf.   When you get up in the 2.00+ range you really should be using a 24- to 30-tooth blade with a more aggressive hook to get a good surface and not stress your saw or the blade too much.  

   I'm of the (humble) opinion that while a good combo or general purpose blade is a time-saver, far too often woodworkers try to push the limits of a particular blade way toooooo far.  To me, it just doesn't make sense to use a 40- or 50-tooth combo/GP blade to rip 2+" and then be surprised when some part of the result isn't satisfactory (quality of the edge, speed of the cut, longevity of the blade, etc.) 

   Yes! the regular season starts real soon.  I love it!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

3. 
   dirtstirrer | Apr 01, 2005 06:24am | #17

   Very true FG.  A combo blade is a compromise for sure, but I know that the cheapie Delta combo blade I had, left a cleaner kerf then this particular model of thin kerf blade, no matter the project.   I may have expected to much from the TK blade.

   I might however change my mind if I came across a TK blade that worked better.  Maybe Freud and Forrest could send me some samples? :)

   I've got high hopes for the Rocks this year, this going to be the year they go .500, and not self destruct in June.  Have a good evening,

    

    Steve

4. 
   forestgirl | Apr 01, 2005 08:10am | #18

   "and not self destruct in June."  Dontcha just hate that feeling!?

   We're going to have a Saw Blade Stand-Off at the Northwest Woodworkers' Knots Fest in a little over a week.  I'll let you know if any of the results are pertinent.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

5. 
   dirtstirrer | Apr 01, 2005 07:22pm | #23

   Thanks FG, keep us posted.

    

    Steve

6. 
   JohnSprung | Apr 02, 2005 12:45am | #24

   > It still amazes me how much better that blade became when it was installed on a Unisaw.

   What amazed me was how much better the Unisaw cuts since I used a machine shop dial indicator to line up the table top and fence with the blade.  Even with a garden variety general purpose DeWalt blade, it makes rips that come close to what a jointer can do.  I didn't think there was anything wrong with the way it cut before, I just had to take it apart in order to move it.  So the alignment was part of the re-assembly. 

    

   -- J.S.

    

7. 
   dirtstirrer | Apr 02, 2005 01:57am | #25

   John, I bet you meant to post that to Bob Powers.

    Steve

2. 
   trusche2 | Mar 31, 2005 03:02am | #4

   Eric,

     My advice to you- spend the extra money.  I have a Forrest WWII and have never regretted the outlay.

   T2

3. 
   warrenspahr | Mar 31, 2005 03:48am | #6

   I have a Forrest blade that I winced over paying the higher price. That was 10 years ago and I am still using the same plade. It has be resharpened twice by Forrest and it always comes back in like new condition. Its cut is so smooth that I have used it to joint smaller pieces.

   I have used the Freud blade and the results were not anywhere as good.

1. 
   Cirept | Mar 31, 2005 05:44am | #7

   I have the regular kerf WWII, but thought with my TS at 1.5hp the thin kerf might reduce the strain on the motor- pop the breaker every now and again raising panels!

   I also have an Everlast that is every bit as good as the WWII but only around $45.

   Thanks,

   Eric

2. 
   forestgirl | Mar 31, 2005 09:29pm | #13

   "I have used the Freud blade"  Which Freud blade are you referring to??  There is only one model (out of 8 or so) that's appropriate to compare with the Woodworker II.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   warrenspahr | Apr 01, 2005 03:40am | #15

   Thanks fpr your reply. I dont remeber which Freud blade it was. I purchased it at Home Depot 8 or 10 years ago. I am sure there are different grades of Freud blades which will deliver satisfactory results, but I have had such positve results with the Forrest blade I guess I am prejudiced.

1. 
   forestgirl | Apr 01, 2005 08:22am | #19

   'Scuze me for being a burr under the saddle, but >>I dont remeber which Freud blade it was<< -- this is the part that kinda bugs me.  And I see it whenever circular or bandsaw blades are discussed.  A respondent will say "I used [Brand X] and it wasn't near as good as the [WWII, Woodslicer, whatever]. 

   If the Brand X blade you used wasn't close to the right configuration, it's not an honest comparison.  The appropriate Freud blade to compare the Forrest WWII to is the F410.  Comparison of any other model is irrelevant.

   We're having a saw blade face-off at the NWWW get-together.  I'm hoping to have several types of blades to use, and will enjoy pitting the F410 against the WWII (if we can get an F410 -- I don't have one yet!)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

4. 
   BArnold | Mar 31, 2005 01:36pm | #9

   Freud -- all the way!  I have a combo, rip and fine crosscut -- completely satisfied with all three of them.  Like you, I can't justify the cost of some of the blades out there and Freud fills the bill.

   Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting
   Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.

   ---

   Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.

   ---

5. 
   Dustmight | Mar 31, 2005 10:10pm | #14

   When I bought a Freud LU84R011, it was a huge improvement over my previous junk Oldham and Vermont American blades. When I was given a Forrest WWII, the Freud got relegated as a decent backup....but it's no Forrest. In fairness, Freud does make a premium "400" series that's more in line with the Forrest.

   I hear good things about Systematic, Leitz, CMT and Dimar too.

6. 
   hammer1 | Apr 01, 2005 05:06am | #16

   I'm one who feels that thin kerfs don't really offer much either in reduced waste or less power needed. I can't say I notice any discernable difference except in the accuracy of the cut. I can't see adding stiffening collars and changing the throat plate, as well as losing the measurement capabilities on the fence for a blade that just doesn't cut as well as a full body, even with all the extra gizmos. The blade collars don't work with all my other accessories like miter sleds. The best blades I've used are Systimatic, my second choice is Freud both for their excellence and cost. The Forest blades are good blades but no comparison to the Systimatic especially at their price. One of my favorite fine cut off blades is an older Freud LU85M010 that is black. It performs as well as my Lion Trimmer. My Systimatic triple chip rip does such a good job I have to hold the edge up to the light and look hard to tell the cut edge from the jointed edge. When you choose a blade, get the industrial types, not the contractor or shop models.
   http://www.right-tool.com/syscomsawbla.html

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

7. 
   Telemike | Apr 01, 2005 08:39am | #20

   I've used lot's of different blades over the years. I've used every level of thin kerf. My new table saw is a 1 3/4 HP so the thin kerf is attractive.

   I've used the freud thin kerf combo and found it is pretty good. Almost glueline. But, then I got a forrest wwII thin kerf. I'm not a proponent of the most expensive = the best, but the WWII is head over heels above any other blade I've used.

1. 
   Cirept | Apr 01, 2005 03:09pm | #21

   Thanks for the feedback.  I do have a Forrest and unfortunately or fortunately if you're loaded, it is the best out there.  Guess I'll have to shell out the cash for the Forrest thin kerf.  Some things are worth the extra money!

   Eric

8. 
   bobpowers | Apr 01, 2005 06:14pm | #22

   About 12-15 years ago, I had a Ryobi BT-3000 tablesaw, and was less than enchanted with its performance. I was persuaded at a woodworking show to buy a Forrest WW II Thin kerf blade. The performance of the Ryobi went down even further. After numerous conversations with Forrest and Ryobi, I gave up and used the blade that came with the saw.

   About ten years ago, I bought a Unisaw. I tried the WW II with no stabilizer and it works great. It is the only blade I use for most of my work. The only time I change blades is when cutting large sheet goods or with very thick material.

   It still amazes me how much better that blade became when it was installed on a Unisaw.