This is a branch from a previous thread called “Things I would have done differently.” That one was about what should have been done in a new shop. This is about what we — those of us who are building or contemplating a new shop or expansion — intend to do, ought to do, might do in our new endeavors.
I, for one, am at the stage of having blueprints in hand. Haven’t selected a general yet, but am on the verge, so I know what my footprint is — 20 X 36. Limitations of the existing structure to which the shop will be added mean that I’ll only have an 8’6″ ceiling; life has its difficulties, but a low ceiling is better than no shop, so I’ll live with that. As for the rest, I’m working on the details. Most challenging for me is the electrical lay out. I’ve read and thought about lots of pros and cons of this and that, but it doesn’t make the commitment to the location of an in-floor electrical outlet in a slab much easier.
In any event, I look forward to hearing from anyone in the same boat who would like to commiserate.
Verne
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste! <!—-><!—-> <!—->
Replies
When I built my shop, one thing I did right was decide where the TS would go. I then laid a 6" PVC pipe under the concrete from the dust collector room to the TS location. 90 degree bend up to the TS. Swept T 90 in the dust collection room with the PVC continuing outside where it is capped. This was for cleanout if I were to get a jam. Haven't yet needed to use it. If you later decide not to use it, you can always cut it off at floor level.
Beside the 6" is a 2" through which I ran two 220 lines and two 110 lines. I now have power and DC at the back of the saw. The 220 line was wired with one receptacle and mounted at the front side of the TS. I believe firmly in unplugging (or plugging out as some call it) the TS anytime I change blades!!!
All other DC drops come down from the ceiling/walls. If you wonder why the underground TS pipe, I now have a TS, outfeed table, and right side extension without any interference. Nice when I need a large work surface!
What I would do differently is make the DC room larger. It is 5 x 5. I would make it at least 7 x 7. My Delta cyclone just barely fits in it with the two 55 gallon sawdust barrels.
Treehouse offered a really good suggestion. When I built my DC shed I thought I made it plenty big... a feeling which lasted up until the point when I installed the DC. Also, at the time I also neglected to consider the addition of a standup air compressor, which I added in an adjacent lean to shed a few years later. I would not put both the DC and air compressor in the same shed without building a partition with a fresh air source for the compressor.
At any rate, putting the compressor and DC outside your shop is really the best option. Not only does it free up floor space but it greatly cuts down on the noise and because the DC is outside your work area you don't have to worry about filter efficiency (particle size) of the bag.
Verne,
Can you create a couple of U shaped channels in your concrete floor? If so you can use them as wiring runs covered of course with removable panels. This will give you a lot more flexibility for outlet placement. If the channels are deep enough they could even serve double duty for running dust collection hoses - much nicer than having lots of lines dangling from the ceiling in the middle of the room.
I tried several arrangements of tools in my shop, trying to abide by the 'rule' to arrange the machines for an efficient flow of work. You know, the wood goes first to the jointer then the table saw, etc. Then one day it hit me that at least for me, a project rarely proceeded in such an orderly fashion. And even if it did, who cared if I had to take a few extra steps to get to the next machine, if that meant everything fit better in the shop space that I have? I should add that I am a hobbiest not someone trying to make a living at woodworking. Once freed of the constraint to follow the 'rules' I was able to come up with more satisfying layout.
One more thing, you mentioned a low ceiling. Perhaps you can gain a few extra inches by putting a solid surface on top of the ceiling joists instead of attaching the sheetrock or whatever to the bottom of those joists. Sometimes that extra few inches of height in the spaces between joists can come in handy.
Good luck with your shop plans,
Jerry
I like your idea about the floor troughs for utilities and dust collection. I'd actually go so far as to suggest that a regular grid could be built into a slab to maximize the utility -- say on a six-foot pattern. That way, you could run cable, air hose, DC hose, telephone wire, or whatever just about anywhere you want it. Great idea; however, I'm afraid it won't work for me. I'm building an addition that will result in a very large two-bedroom house. It is configured so that my shop will be a carpet and paint job away from a mother-in-law apartment. So, I don't want to add too many shop-only enhancements that would preclude that. Additionaly, I'm puting radiant heat in the slab, so it might be a challenge -- or extra expense - to thicken the slab to accomodate the throughs. But I think it's a great idea!
I also have to say that your problem with a "smooth work flow" arrangement has always been the antithesis of my way of doing things. I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain to well meaning non-woodworkers why a shopsmith isn't the answer.
Ultimately, I believe I'll locate the 220v floor outlet in the middle of the largest open area in the shop, because that's likely to be the best place for the TS.Verne
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!<!----><!----><!---->
Verne,
I'm going to respectfully advance the concept that having having dust collection ducting and wiring and other stuff running overhead instead of cast in troughs in concrete might be thought of as an advantage.
In any shop that I've had over the years, there always came a time when I would move things around. Maybe it was to accommodate a new machine, or to upgrade an existing one. Having stuff running overhead made it easy to decide to rearrange the shop layout. I was never confined to placing certain machines only in certain places where troughs were.
You said you can't have too many "shop specific" features like underfloor ducting, so it sounds as though it's not going to be an issue anyway. And creating a flat floor will make the building more palatable to whoever eventually purchases the property from you sometime in the future.
A comment you made about 8'-6" ceilings being "low" made me chuckle. Mine are eight feet even in one part of the shop; a little under that in another. And I have dust collection ducting running overhead. So that decreases the headroom further. But I handle 4x8 sheets of plywood with relative ease even with that headroom limitation. (Well, "relative ease" in the relative sense. It seems they make the stuff heavier and heavier every year...)
If you're going with concrete block you must not live in a climate where you need to heat a shop much, or at all. Up north here in Michigan, that's the last material I'd use to build a shop. It's a heat sink. That's a nice break on your part. Heating is a pain, and it gets expensive..
Zolton If you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
I live in Michigan and my shop is a block building and I love it, quiet and it is easy to heat. If it were so bad why are most commercial buildings, schools etc done in block?
Zolton, two clarifications:
1) I agree with your view that things cast in concrete are hard to change. That's why I'd expand the concept to a grid of utility runs in the slab. We're talking about open channels with covers that you had ready access to. If you think about it, a grid laid in the floor on 4' to 6' centers would make it possible to rearrange your utilities, dust collection, etc, at will -- and pretty easily at that.
2) I think it is Napie who is building with blocks -- and I think he's also in a cold climate. You'll have to take the heat retention issue up with him. As for me, I'm in Southeast Alaska and I know too well about heating problems and moisture problems. My structure will be stick-built with radiant heat in a slab foundation, 6" walls with blown foam insulation, and high R-value windows.
I'm afraid that I was spoiled in my last shop. It was perfect: 800 sq. ft. with a 10' ceiling, wide bay door, lots of light, and a cosy 800 sq. ft. home upstairs. But then life intrudes with its sail boats, graduate schools, and the desire to have more than two people over for dinner. What's a guy to do? But now it's time to build a new shop, so here we go. Verne
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!<!----><!----><!---->
One thing that will be the same, my present shop is a cement block building and I love that. The addition will also be the same construction. In the end it is less expensive, very quiet and solid and most surprising up here in the frigid north easy to keep warm. Surface mounted EMT has been a really great way to wire for power and data and is very easy to add too or modify. “Tapcon” brand screws make putting stuff on the walls easy. I have used French cleats to hang cabinets and tool boards. I’m going to install a big louvered wall fan in the addition for some more ventilation and to get the dust out from power sanding at the lathe the DC system misses.
Didn't you also say you were going to put in skylights? I think that would be great -- accept for the fact that I have them in my livingroom and kitchen and they're a great big pain in the posterior maintenance-wise. It's a love-hate relationship; we love the light at this latitude where we enjoy extreme darkness a good part of the year, but I hate the cleaning, scraping, painting, etc. that they require because of the condensation.
In any event, it isn't even a choice in the new shop since there will be a second floor above for the music room/library. Verne
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!<!----><!----><!---->
The current shop is two stories (really a loft full of rough turned bowls, lumber, hardware and extra tools) but the addition will have either skylights or maybe those sunlight tubes. The old section is going to be devoted to metal work, tractor, equipment and auto maintenance.
I have to say that the idea of having space for metal work would be great, although I doubt I'll ever get there. It has long been a dream of mine to have a foundry where I could make my own tools and cast my own hardware. Unfortunately, I believe that will always remain below the cut on the priority list.Verne
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!<!----><!----><!---->
My 1st recommendation is to build 3 shops from scratch and maybe you will get close to making the 4th or 5th one the perfect shop.
From experiences learned on #3.
It can’t be too big. Currently at 36x36 and sometimes it is hard to walk thru.
12 ft ceiling height. You can just take sheets of plywood and spin it around over your head.
Lots of light. (24) 4 tube florescent light fixtures plus some task lighting.
Dust collection in trenches in the floor. Make sure it is in the right place cause you ain’t going to be moving it. Equipment in a closet with an outside door to access the dust barrels without dragging it thru the shop.
Dust collection at all equipment. In addition, several shop vacuums and it is still a losing battle.
Lots of power. 400 amp service. All of the wiring is 4 wire system. All of the plugs are 2 side by side. Because of the 4 wires each is on a separate circuit. Each one can be quickly changed to a 220.
Central heat and air with double filters. A/C “helps” to keep the tools from rusting. Double filters keeps the equipment running.
Face the building South. It keeps the cold north wind away from the overhead door. The sun heats the door in the winter and helps warm the shop.
Wireless internet access. So I can keep tabs on all y’all.
Full bath room.
A big ole Archie chair just in case you need to take a nap.
Best of all 3 or 4 miles from home, so your wife can’t remind you of all the projects you haven’t done for her at home and so you don’t have the “right tools” at home.
bob
HI Bob,
Oh,that such wickedness could be !! [Heh,Heh..Chuckle chuckle.]
Mine's GOT to be in the back yard,and as I'm reading all contributors to this interesting post,I'm turning a pale shade of irridescent green! Would love to have some of the sizes mentioned,and all I can say is that I have designed hatch-ways in the side walls opposite each other to handle long pieces of timber....I DO live in a much more moderate climate than a lot of you guys,so the hatches will be also useful as cross flow ventilation!
This shed is of timber consctruction.. usual framing,weatherboard cladding,solid foam insulation,electrics run thru' studs to chest high sockets on every 2nd stud,bare ceiling joists for timber storage,what we call a 'roof blanket' under galvanised iron sheets for a roof,[two of those replaced with smoky polycarbonate sheets for a skylight,a large opening[sliding] window and fairly standard solid and also screen door to keep the summer critters out.
Floor is 2 layers of what we call particle board with an overlay of rubberised domestic carpet underlay..Great if one drops a sharp tool,but a bit of a b***er moving stuff on.
Never mind,you can't win 'em all! ...May change that.
Must say again,reading what you chaps have to put up with weatherwise,makes me feel rather fortunate.Mind you,there would be many other factors to balance that,I suspect.
Robin
That sounds about perfect!
Dwight
Verne - I've a thought opposite of other recommendations in this thread - don't put electrical runs, troughs, or anything else in the concrete slab. There are a couple of ways to embed electrical in a concrete floor, and my personal opinion is that both of them are bad. One's a permanet conduit with an electrical box sunk in flush with the floor. That keeps one from tripping over "stanchion" type electrical outlets, but they're vulnerable to the accumulation of wood dust, dirt, and other grime in the sockets, and the only way to really clean them out is to remove the receptacle and replace it. Moreover, if the outlet is sunk flush with a slab-on-grade, then your local electrical codes will likely require ground-fault interruption, and that sucks. Many machines can have a sufficient differential between neutral and hot when the machine starts up to trip GFI circuits.
The second, more conventional way is to put the electrical in conduit and mount it a foot above the floor as a stanchion. If you're absolutely certain of your layout, will never replace a machine, and do all the planning correctly, that might be convenient. However, if you decide to move your shop around, guaranteed that you'll wind up with one right in the middle of a walkway.
Troughs in a slab floor aren't good for the same reason - they'll just fill with dust, chips, and gook, and you'll be forever cursing having to take a Saturday morning to clean them out.
Instead, spend the money you'll save by not running all this stuff in the floor for floor insulation and plywood. Your tools and your knees will be thanking you for many years to come.
There's no doubt that ceiling-mounted outlets and DC systems can sometimes be less than visually appealing, but they're easily moved when you decide to change your shop layout. There aren't many woodworkers (if they're honest about it) that will tell you they've never moved a machine, workbench, or other item well after they've designed and built their shop.
One other thing that I really wish I had is an exterior, weather-proof shed to store lumber, and a fairly large, dedicated area out of the way in the shop to put a lumber pile that's to be used in the next 6 months. Lumber takes a while to equilibrate to shop temperature/humidity conditions, and it'd sure be nice to have it out of the way while it does.
Well said. Very sound advice. Exactly what I recommended..
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Over head works for a lot of things, but I've been there and it has its disadvantages as well. One of the things that drove me nuts in my previous shop was the kingpost in the middle of the place -- I'm determined to avoid airspace obstructions. Hanging power is ok for a lot of machines, but I have a real problem with a power drop to the TS where I'd constantly be tangling with it. However, I may end up there whether I like it or not. Verne
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!<!----><!----><!---->
"Over head works for a lot of things, but I've been there and it has its disadvantages as well. One of the things that drove me nuts in my previous shop was the kingpost in the middle of the place -- I'm determined to avoid airspace obstructions. Hanging power is ok for a lot of machines, but I have a real problem with a power drop to the TS where I'd constantly be tangling with it. However, I may end up there whether I like it or not. "
Verne - No question there's no perfect solution. But you don't need a kingpost in the shop, at least not for the purposes of routing electrical (though you may well need it for structural considerations). What needs to be done in the case of a TS is to not make the mistake of hanging the electrical access right over, or especially in back of, the machine. If it's routed to about 6 feet to the right side of the machine, a short, purpose-made extension cord gives you a plug in the front of the TS that's totally out of the way.
I'm quite serious about the wooden floor - the biggest mistake you may make in a from-the-ground-up, purpose-made shop is to pitch the wooden floor and just keep the concrete. One way to put in the wooden floor is on 2X6 grids. If you choose this, you've the best of both worlds - the ability to route your DC and electrical under the floor, but still have a hassle-free way to change it (which you'll inevitably want to do).
In the interest of brevity, I probably made for confusion. I don't propose to put a post in the middle of the new shop whether I have overhead power drops or not. I'm just sensitive to such things getting in the way because I had one in my previous quarters and it was a great nuisance.
The wood over concrete floor is a consideration. However, one of the consequences is a lower ceiling and I'm trying to avoid that. Actually, I don't mind the concrete, and the fact that I'll have radiant heat in the slab will make it a lot friendlier. Verne
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!<!----><!----><!---->
Verne,
the fact that I'll have radiant heat in the slab will make it a lot friendlier.
Don't mean to be argumentative but the first time you drop a prized cutting tool you might reconsider a wood floor. And you don't lose the benefit of the radiant heat.
My woodshop is on the second floor so all this routing of ductwork, wiring, etc. is basically non existant for me. And come spring the DC will be downstairs and out of the way.
Only real downside was getting the heavy metal up there and as dkeller pointed out, not a lot of room to store wood for upcoming projects. Getting stock up there and getting finished projects down are the only day to day negatives so far.
Just my 2¢,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Ah, the challenges of balancing this and that! I agree entirely on the advantages of a wood floor. Unfortunately, with the situation I have, it's just going to be cement, like it or not. There are work arounds though. E.g., the tool droping problem (not one I've run into just yet and as long as I've plenty of coffee in the mornings, I'm ok) can be resoved with a sheet or two of plywood under the main bench. On the other hand, I really like concrete for its substance beneath the lathe - I'd bolt the head and rails to a large concrete block if I could.Verne
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!<!----><!----><!---->
I'd love to have plywood but readily admit that concrete has worked out fine for me. With the help of a few floor mats it's not even that uncomfortable.
'Til I can build a shop the basement will do. I'd love wood floors, but ceilings are low enough and I don't see much advantage laying wood directly over concrete. Any recommendations on padding? Comfort, wear, clean-up/maintenance and price are some of the factors. Am I forgetting something?
I've tried a number of solutions, including making my own wood grate floor mats out of strips of teak left over from a project, and the best so far is those rubber mats that woodcraft sells (I wait for them to come on sale). I'm sure there are other good as or better options, but these are good enough for me.
"I agree entirely on the advantages of a wood floor. Unfortunately, with the situation I have, it's just going to be cement, like it or not."
Well, if cost is a factor, there are solutions other than paying for it at a local Big-Box store. There are a lot of places you can buy salvage flooring, plywood, etc..., not the least of which is the Habitat for Humanity re-use store.
If you're relatively young, you may not care about standing on a concrete floor, but I'm betting you will as you get older. I'm 45 and notice that my feet and knees hurt after a full day in the shop, and that's despite wearing running shoes and having cushion mats in critical locations.
After all is said and done, though, I think you're going to regret putting anything in a concrete floor, including radiant heat. Though popular, it's extraordinarily difficult to repair, particularly if it's a heated-water system. I know this from experience - determining the exact source of leak's difficult, and the vibrations from a rock hammer and cutting saw means that considerably bigger sections than just where the leak occurs must be broken up. Electric radiant heat is even more difficult to repair, as you don't have a wet spot to guide you. I've repaired a couple of these, and I had to use a magnetometer to exactly locate the cable, and drilled a bunch of 1" holes to find the break in the heating element.
Not fun, particularly the look on the Lady's face when I gave her the estimate for repairing it. My advice to her was to disconnect it and put in an auxillary heating system, but no dice. Repair eventually cost her $2,000.
In the perpetual renovation project that is my house, we turned the downstairs which was an open dirt floored house barn into entry, pottery studio, and shop. For resale the shop was also a 1-car garage. The guy that poured the slab asked if I wanted a floor that sloped to allow drainage. Seemed like a good idea at the time. Perhaps it was if the use is for a garage. As a wood shop, the sloping floor is a continual annoyance. I suppose I could put sleepers down with all manner of shims to level things out and then wood flooring over the top of that. Someday....
Randall
The reason that the shop will be on a concrete slab has to do with the site and the existing structure, not cost.
As far as the comfort goes, I've got a few years on you, so I know what you mean about knees and ankles. But that's one reason that I want the radiant heat -- all of your caveats notwithstanding. It's also possible to eliminate a lot of the problem with rubber mats, etc., in the locations where one spends a lot of time standing. And, one other point that helps in my case is that I don't woodwork full-time these days -- the rare uninterupted day that I'll be able to spend in the shop will be something of a pleasure rather than a pain.Verne
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!<!----><!----><!---->
"And, one other point that helps in my case is that I don't woodwork full-time these days -- the rare uninterupted day that I'll be able to spend in the shop will be something of a pleasure rather than a pain."
Indeed - a day on a concrete floor in a woodshop beats a day in a fabric-covered box in a cushy office chair all to heck.
Hmm - One other thought about a concrete slab based on experiences in older homes repairing cracks, gaps, etc... If your slab is going to be lower than grade by more than a foot, I'd suggest springing for exterior rubber coating on the walls, whether they'll be cinder block or poured, re-inforced concrete. I think a vapor barrier under the concrete is now part of the NBC, but that's also something I'd consider mandatory - a realtor friend of mine is fond of the saying "basements are all wet", and he's generally right on that point, particularly after a couple of years of settling.
Dkellernc, my slab will be on grade and with sufficient vapor barrier and insulation to prevent moisture problems. The existing house is on the same foundation, sans radiant heat, and the slab is dry as can be.
Enough of floors for a bit. On the other end of the spectrum, I'm contemplating lighting choices. Will likely end up with recessed florescents in order to keep the overhead obstructions to a minimum, but other than that, I haven't reached any conclusions about fixtures and the type of tubes I want to use. Anyone have a similar quandary or any suggested solutions? (Skylights are out -- I'll have a second floor above, and I've already grown far too familiar with their failings since I have them in my existing structure.)
Verne
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!<!----><!----><!---->
For lighting, I think a very effective source is either T8 or T5 fluorescent lights. They come in different forms and fixtures. Lots of light without exorbitant power usage. A four tubed, four foot unit would probably fit right in between your joists.
Radiant heat bad? Not for me it isn't. I had built in when my house/garage was under construction in 1992. In concrete. Always works and never needed repairs. And I am in an earthquake zone where we get a lot of rumbles.Depends on the quality of materials and installers I suppose.Highly recommended.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
"Depends on the quality of materials and installers I suppose."
Nope, it depends on failure rate and luck. And they do fail, even when done properly with good components. My only point is that they're a major PITA to repair, and expensive, particularly compared with a conventional forced-air system.
Moreover, in a free-standing shop, a forced-air system is likely to be necessary in addition to the radiant heat because an in-floor system will not control humidity. That can, of course, also be done with an ultra-low temp dehumidifier, but personally I'd rather have it as an all-in-one.
<<Nope, it depends on failure rate and luck>>That is the sort of thing no one can argue with because you could say that about virtually anything. You win.Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
That statement fits everything from the outgoing administration to the current financial crisis to the plane in the Hudson River. It is so random as to be meaningless.
"It is so random as to be meaningless." As is the statement "I've got one and never had any problems" An n=1 assessment should be viewed with caution; all I'm saying is that I've repaired a few of these, and they're not common in my neck of the woods.
Regarding lighting, Verne - There's some alternatives to standard, "shop-light" fixtures available at the depot that might interest you. In particular, you can get "very high output" fluorescent fixtures that have roughly 10 times the light output of the standard T-12 bulbs. There are significant efficiency gains with this type of lighting, and because the aquarium industry is quite large in the US, consumer-grade fixtures are available for not a lot of money (the "industrial" grade VHO fixtures can get quite pricey). A couple of these over a bench installation might be quite nice - I find the standard shop-light fluorescents in my shop to be inadequate for joint-making and carving, so I wound up adding 4 additional, clamp-on type reflectors with compact fluorescents. Those serve the purpose and were inexpensive, but if I had it to do over, I'd have installed a couple of VHO fixtures.
Why repair it if nothing needs to be repaired. I don't now where you get the need for dehumidification. Once you turn on the heat the relative humidity goes way down like any other system. It is a simple thing and cheap to bring in a humidifier if you need more moisture. In warmer weather and the heat is off, you control the relative humidity like you would using any other heat system. If you are air conditioning, then that self dehumidifies.
My experiences are like a lot of others but here are my specifics.
My design goals were to have high enough ceilings so I didn't bump anything when carrying 8' panels. I put the ceilings 9' 6" but wish I would have gone another 6"-12".
Another design goal was to have nothing on the floor to trip over. This implied electrical cables and DC ducting would be buried. Since it was a concrete floor, I had a trough put in with a lip recess to hold aluminum plate covering. My table saw and work bench are in the middle of the room and served by this trough. This was my biggest error for two reasons. 1) I thought 4" ducting would be big enough for the TS but it wasn't. 2) The trough has a 90 degree corner which doesn't allow for a big radius bend of the ducting. My advice is to give careful consideration to anything to burried in concrete and then overbuild by 50% for what you think you will need.
I located my DC in a room which also houses my furnace/AC. My intent was to keep the door to the room closed to control noise. This was a mistake because I didn't consider that the air from the DC has to flow back to where it came from. With the door closed, it can only flow into the furnace ducting, including any dust. So I have to keep the door open. My advise is to keep the DC located outside the shop or in its own room. However, you need to allow for return airflow.
Another minor mistake was thinking I would put in lots of windows for ventilation. Here in Texas, I am always either heating or cooling so the windows never get opened. Furthermore, opening the windows would allow for wild fluctuations of humidity. Also airflow just stirs up dust which makes finishing more of a chore than I arlready consider it. I do have a lot of light though. The downside is I sacrificed wall space so I am reaching the point of having to locate tools in front of windows.
One thing I think I did right was put in lots of lights. In a 24'x48' shop, I have 16 4' 4-tube florescent fixtures. I put half on one electrical leg and the other half on another, sharing a common neutral, with a switch for each leg. This way I can turn on either half or all the lights.
Although not a shop design mistake, I made major errors in my DC design. As I said, I thought 4" ducts would be enough but it wasn't. I am now on my second set of ducts and second DC and stuck with inadequate dust collection at the TS.
Hope this helps.
My shop in Texas was a 20 x 35 with 8' ceilings.
First, 8' ceilings are no problem unless you are a commercial shop handling large sheet of stock every day. I used 10 32W 4-tube 4'low profile light fixtures.
3-3' windows on each side. Single bay insulated garage door and 3' access door on one end and 6' double doors on the other end. The wall with double doors also was where I stored mt wood and the cyclone.
2-hp Oneida DC system with metal duct work. The only wall mounted ducts were for the TS and planer/jointer. I had a total of 8 blast gates off of two main lines. For the 15" planer and dual-head drum sander I had a 6" flex drop in the middle of the shop that I looped out of the way when the equipment was not in use. All of my machines are mobile allowing me to move them against walls or out of the way when not in use.
All electrical was in quad boxes, 2-220 and 2-110 in each box. Six ceiling mounted quad outlets. All quad outlets were 20 amp receptacles. I had a single 30A and a 50A outlet.
Regarding the TS, I tried many configurations and always came back to the TS near a wall. My final placement was to allow for 4' clearance from any obstacles on one side 7' clearance on the other side. My out-table was 4' x 5' with modular cabinets on each side and the end.
One the other side of the TS, leaving a 4' "path", I had my BS and router table served by overhead DC and power drops. This arrangements provided me with working room on each side.
against one wall I had 4-2' x 42" modular cabinets for tool storage. The single 8' laminate top served as additional work bench and an out-table for the RAS on one end and my drill press on the other end. Parallel to this working area I had my work bench served by overhead electrical on a retractable cord and flex ducting which could be looped out of way when not in use.
If I was building it again, the major change I would make would be to raise the ceiling so I could install sleepers and have a wood floor. Failing that, I would at least install a engineered wood floor. So much easier on the body.
Good luck and enjoy the process.
DOug
Edited 1/20/2009 10:22 am ET by DougGF
Doug,
Sounds like an awful lot of 220 outlets. Do you really find that you need all those? I'm having a hard time conceiveing of that many uses for high voltage in a non-commercial shop. I intend to have a handful of 220's, and I'm contemplating wiring such that I can reconfigure to 220 wherever I find it necessary, but I'd be surprised if I found that I needed them everywhere. Verne
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!<!----><!----><!---->
VerneThe RAS, TS, DC,jointer/planer, planer,BS,drum sander and my wife's glass kiln are all 220v. I also wanted outlets near the front and rear to run extension cords outside for the planer and kiln My preference is use 220v motors whenever I have a choice.The cost to add the "extra" circuits was minimal compared to not having them were I might eventually want them or for additional equipment. When I built my shop I also finished it off on the inside so while it was framed I had the electrician put in everything I could think of since future add-ons would be difficult since I had no overhead access and insulated walls. The entire electrical including running the No. 3 to the shop from the main panel, materials and electrician was a little under $1,000. Labor in Texas is inexpensive.If I had an unfinished building and running everything in EMT, I might not put all of these circuits in right away but I would have a panel sufficient to accommodate them. Doug
"The RAS, TS, DC,jointer/planer, planer,BS"I DK WTM.
Radial arm saw, table saw, band saw,dust collector.
Ah. Thank you.
Thorvald
First I'm new - I built my shop in -02 it is 20 X 28, basically a 28' extention of my garage. Of course I wish is it was 36', but then it would have been 42' etc... I had the same problem of my exsisting structure limiting the max height of my shop ceiling to 8'9". While not a perfect solution, I opted for a vaulted ceiling in my shop, this yielded (with a 3/12 roof) 9'10" center height. My TS is located in the center and this extra height really helps with panel goods. Hope this helps. Ironically, my shop is the only room of our house with a vaulted ceiling - how cool is that?
BTW in floor radiant heat is the only way to heat a shop IMHO.
Johnnypopper
Edited 1/20/2009 4:30 pm ET by Johnnypopper
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