is it ok to thin 100% pure tung oil with d-limonene made from oranges. i’m looking for a more eco-friendly alternative to mineral spirits or turpentine.
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Replies
Why exactly is d-limonene more "eco friendly" than turpentine?
For that matter, there is still the issue of why use pure tung oil in finishing?
What's eco-unfriendly about turpentine? It's made from pine trees, a renewable resource.
While volatile, used with adequate ventilation it's not a problem, although the government makes things difficult.
Mineral spirits are a petroleum distillate.
Good point!!Gretchen
Thank you, ma'am, nice to have support from a lovely lady from the Tarheel State.And, I've just gotta do it -- GO WOLFPACK!Leon
WRONG Go Heels.
Being a Miami of Ohio person myself, and married to a Davidson guy, I can pick and choose!! Son went to Chapel Hill, however. DBIL was a HUGE Wolfpack supporter--as is his family. NC is blessed with good universities!! And sports!!Gretchen
>>> It's made from pine trees, a renewable resource.Is the fact it's a "renewable resource" the reason to call it "eco-friendly"?Not trying to start a fight, I'm just trying to understand some the new "green" or eco-friendly issues.Howie.........
Leon wrote: It's made from pine trees, a renewable resource.Howie responded: Is the fact it's a "renewable resource" the reason to call it "eco-friendly"?Not trying to start a fight, I'm just trying to understand some the new "green" or eco-friendly issues.++++++++++++++++++++++++I'd think so, Howie -- it's not as if loblolly pine is an endangered species.Not that I understand 'em either, but turps and tung oil are both made from plants, we've been harvesting pine (at least in NC) since it was a colony.I have absolute confidence that I'll PO somebody with that idea, though.Leon
I live in coastal North Carolina. The pines around here are mostly loblolly and slash pine. Both are "junk" pines that grow fast and are harvested for pulp. There is some minimal effort to re-forest with long leaf pine (sometimes called heart pine) which were the native trees 200-300 years ago. The North Carolina pine forests were "kings land" as the trees were used for naval stores like tar, turpentine and ship masts. Almost all the long leaf pines were logged out years ago. Long leaf pines are quite slow growing so the re-forestation process will take a very long time.One point not widely known is that there are more trees today in most of the eastern US now than there were 150 years ago. First growth trees were cut down for construction and firewood and charcoal.Howie.........
Long leaf pine is disappearing from Florida, too.
I'm in Roanoke VA, the forests here are all second or third growth, mostly hardwood, which, despite howls of anguish from the tree-huggers, is being responsibly managed and harvested.I haven't checked recently, but fifteen or so years ago, forestry and timber-related work was the third-largest employment group in the Commonwealth.Leon
Thanks for all the info but no one has answered my question.I guess I used the wrong word when I said eco-friendly.I'm looking for something that is less toxic.There is an article in the archives here that says turpentine is twice as toxic as acetone.With my shop in the basement just about any fumes can get pretty bad.
No idea on the toxicity. I use nitrile gloves and good ventilation, I haven't had problems.I will note that with an older gas-fired hot air heater (where the air is re-circulated instead of drawn in), the fumes are horrific. Found that out the hard way, everyone had a headache for a couple of weeks until the piece was done curing.Now I have an outside exhaust.Leon
I used to use it to clean my hands of paint. I don't drink it--that WOULD be toxic. I think it is much ado.Gretchen
The simplest solution is not to thin pure tung oil. It does no benefit and isn't needed. You will get the same ulimate effect applying pure tung oil as with thinning it. The solvent will flash away fast enough that total penetration of the wood will depend on how long the actual tung molecules can still osmose into the wood before they begin to cure, polymerizing into long enough chains that they no longer penetrate.
The other aspect is that I would suggest not using pure tung oil. It is a very difficult product to use, requiring each coat to spaced several days apart, assuming your drying space is close to 70°. (I don't care what some labels on the products say.) It makes a great ingredient in manufacturing varnish, but as a stand along finish it isn't worth much.
It typically takes 5 coats, applying each, letting penetrate for 30-30 minutes, and then wiping off all excess about as much as possible before waiting days for the next. If you try to rush you may discover that you have developed a white frosty look, that can't be fixed short of stripping the tung oil off and starting over on bare wood.
At the end of that that process you can achieve a satin finish. Tung oil can't achieve more than satin because of the way that it dries. And, in the end, it offers very, very little protection--perhaps a little more moisture resistance that 3 coats of pure BLO, but not meaningful meaningful difference,
If you want an "in-the-wood" oil finish, which can be a very attractive look with some furniture styles and some woods, you should use a mix of oil and varnish, since considerably greater improvement in moisture resistance and durability can be achieve with the mix applied and wiped off just like the oil would have been. Almost impossible to see the difference.
And, it may be true acetone has more health hazard than turnpentine, it is a much lighter fraction, more likely to penetrate skin, etc, than typical mineral spirits. And, I don't think D-limosene is much of an improvement. As near as I can tell the scientific evidence is still out about it's safety. Just because it come from a product , orange peels, that are natural and might appear safe doesn't mean that the concentrated chemical extracts are safe. Frankly, I'm not even sure that D-limosene doesn't fall into the snake oil category for many of the uses touted for it, though I don't know it's chemistry well enough to make a definative judgment.
Steve,
I have to politely disagree about most of your statements regarding pure Tung Oil. I have found that after it is fully cured, it does offer a good deal of protection. Of course you don't want to let standing water set for too long on the finish. Also, if a white frosted film develops you do not have to strip off the finish. All you need to do is use a scotch-brite pad, dampen it with a little oil, and rub it out. While you can apply pure Tung Oil without thinning, I have found that the drying time is greatly increased. What I do is thin the first coat to about 40% oil, 60% solvent, second coat through however many coats the wood will take, 60% oil, 40% solvent, then the last coat is about 90% oil. Lastly, it is possible to achieve almost a french polish look with tung oil. It depends on the wood species and how much time and effort you are willing to put forth. I don't want to go over the whole process but, it requires wet sanding in increasing grits, and lots of polishing in-between coats.
Adding solvent isn't really
Adding solvent isn't really increasing the curing time for pure tung oil, except to the minor degree that the somewhat thinner coat gets a bit more access to oxygen. But basically there is a chemical polymerization going on that mostly happens after any solvent has evaporated. That cure takes as much time.
Frankly I don't understand your French polish look alike. When tung oil cures the molecules undergo a kind of shrinkage that leave a roughened surface--satin is about what you get. If there is enough of those molecules left on the surface to abrade to a smoother, shinier surface, you have left a very soft surface, certainly compared to French polish which is one of the hardest finish surface.
Now lots of people get fooled by Tung Oil Finish, such as the Formby's product. That isn't oil of any sort, it is a varnish, it can be left to develop a film, offers considerable moisture resistance, and will eventually rub out to a rather shiny surface, though no oil varnish can even approach the look of true French polish.
Felder,
Lots of advice here. I guess you have to try it. Not all solvents have the same properties so tread carefully on some test pieces. The could be some organics in the solvent that alter the tung oil.
I personally like using pure tung oil in certain applications. Just rub it in right out of the can. Come back tomorrow and the next day and do the same. Smells good fells good. Don't be casual about your rags though. Soak 'em in water in a steel can outside then dry them and throw em out.
High odor - your apparent issue may have nothing to do with toxicity. Just because something smells like an orange peel, does not mean it is not toxic. This is why we can't have peanut butter in school lunches any longer.
Don
I've been using a citrus
I've been using a citrus solvent that I purchased from the Real Milk Paint Co. and have had great results. The solvent is clear so it will not add any coloration to the Tung Oil. I can't tell any difference in application between the citrus solvent and mineral spirits. Also, the citrus solvent doesn't irritate my skin nearly as much as mineral spirits tends to, but I would still wear gloves when using.
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