Friends,
I don’t come here much anymore. It is sad to see the state of things. I haven’t done a careful count but it seems that Knots is down to less than a half dozen posts a day. In Hand Tools, my favorite old haunt, it looks like there have been two new threads started in the last TWO WEEKS, and only a couple of replies. In General Discussion, there have been four threads started in the last two weeks, and two of them have had no responses.
FWW said they would fix the problems, including the disappearance of the list of folders on the Left of the Screen. Weeks later – no fix – and no word from FWW.
It seems to be time to put this puppy out of its misery. It is too sad to watch.
A while back, I wondered “Why? I believe I remember some FWW words that Knots is costly and provides no cash return. We have had no word from FWW about the state of their attempts to make the fixes, or about their plans for the future of Knots. It seems clear now that FWW has little interest in caring for Knots.
If you want to join about 200 of the old Knots members in a lively forum, just go over and take a look at The Burl, which was started by another former Knots fan, Mike Flaim. It is free, and you can find it at:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/burl
If you are interested in a wild wild forum, try the Canadian version:
http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/forum.php
I am sad about what has happened here at Knots, but I have no hard feelings. Business is business. I don’t believe that FWW has anything against the folks who inhabited Knots, almost all of whom are WFF subscribers. It is just that they must feel that keep up Knots is not worth the cost and effort. I would rather that FWW fix Knots and everyone come back, but that is a like like hoping for an end to all diseases and hunger.
I will stop back once in a while to check to see if the lights have been turned off. Actually, it would be fun to announce the day that FWW will close down Knots, and to end it with a VIRTUAL PARTY here on Knots. I’ll bet that if we let the others know via the other forums, that many would come back for one last blast. It would be a fitting way to end what was a wonderful institution.
I wish you all the best. That includes FWW, of course.
Mel
Replies
Mel,
You certainly seem like a likable fellow and I enjoy most of your comments.
(large slurp of black coffee)
I may have this all wrong, but you seem to be obsessed with the demise of Knots.
I find it sad that participation has dropped so low here and yes I'm enjoying the "new" hangout.
Bret
Bret,
I guess you could consider my posts as a sign of an obsession about the demise of Knots. It would not be accurate. A better way to see my last few posts is that someone is actively doing their best to keep the old gang together by suggesting an alternative forum, and as a last ditch effort to try to get FWW management to step up and say what their plans are.
I have always enjoyed your posts. Glad to hear you hang out at the Burl too. Many of our old friends are there. MANY of them have bad feelings about how FWW let Knots go downhill. I am sorry to see that. While I am saddened by FWW's lack of support for Knots, I understand business, and they are in business. I support their efforts to try to stay alive and make money, and to cut out the parts that they do not see as aiding them in their road to success.
I would like to see FWW do lots of things differently -- BUT I can fully understand why they don't do any of the things on my list. All would cause them to be more interesting to high end woodworkers, and less interesting to newbies -- who really want to find out who makes the best bandsaw, and what the best way to make dovetails is. I plan to keep subscribing to FWW and wish them every success.
When someone in the family dies, there needs to be a time for grieving and for closure. That is why we have wakes and funerals. They are not for the decedent. They are for the survivors. That is what I would like to see for the survivors of Knots -- a planned "Final Party" at which we could bring closure to the memory of a well loved institution.
If you have read some of my posts, you know I don't have a mean bone in my body. I love woodworking, and enjoy the company of woodworkers, either virtually or in person. I am not a troublemaker. HOWEVER - I have noticed myself, as I grow older, moving toward some of the traits of old friend, Charles Stanford. I am a proponent of Tough Love --- if you see someone developing a bad habit - Tell 'em. Make sure they understand. He never did this to be mean, although many thought and think that he did. He really does believe in calling a spade a spade. There may be a bit of that in my recent posts about making clear what is happing with Knots.
When I first met Charles, it was under his Boss Crunk pseudonym, and then under River Prof and about a dozen other names. At first, he was the only person on Knots that I disliked. As the years have gone by, I find that he is one of the two people who has been most influential in changing my ideas and attitudes. The other is Ray Pine. These are two quite different people. Ray also tells it like it is, but he coats it in phenomenally good humor. Charles just says it straight and briefly.
As the song says: there is a time for to live and a time for to die. That is just life. In the Fall, the leaves turn colors and fall from the trees. In business, companies start up, and take different routes, and some make it and some don't. Knots had a GREAT RUN. We should celebrate that long and great run. A New Orleans style virtual funeral is a great way to have that celebration. In reality, Knots is not dying. It is morphing. It's effects will be felt for a long time. Same old folks are doing the same old thing, just in different places.
Have fun.
Mel
PS - I did promise Mike Flaim that I would help him build Burl by letting more and more people know about it. That is another reason for these posts.
PPS - I worked at NASA from 79 to 02. There was a 10 year period in which the Administrator of NASA took NASA headquarters down from 2400 people to 800 people without a single layoff. He just did a number of things over a long period of time that made people feel that leaving was better than staying. There were a group of us whose motto was "I am going to still be here when they turn out the lights." We were among the survivors. Those who left, left on their own accord. As in Knots, there was s lot of discussion about what the real intention of the Administrator was. I want to be here in Knots the day the lights go off. At NASA, they are still on, although some say "dimly".
Hey Mel,
I hope you don't think I was implying that you were mean. Quite the opposite, I think you're very friendly.
I'm just confused about the whole general dislike for the "new" Knots and then the mass exodus. I was not here for the "good Old" Knots having joined only about a year ago, but I've always enjoyed this site.
It has been a little frustrating lately because there seems that there is no one here to respond to the posts. I am not going to beat a dead horse and I am moving where the action is. See you there.
Bret
a
Morbid sort of Fun
Mel , Before you ride off into the Sunset , don't forget you have a box coming and there was some talk about a bowl someday .
I too find it sad that you think it will be "fun" to announce the demise of Knots , I think your thought may have been written out of context , just not your normal kind self .
regards , dboxmaker
Dusty,
Your bowl is ready. When you say the word. We exchange. Can't wait.
I don't want Knots to end. I have said a number of times that I want FWW to put Knots back together and for the folks to come back. I just don't see any action from FWW. I had hoped that my messages would be responded to by FWW with some info about their plans to fix things. NOTHING. Complete silence. A mutual friend, who used to be very close to Knots management, wrote to me and said that he believes the demise of Knots has long been in the plans of FWW, and that they are just letting it die a slow death.
I guarantee you that no one is sadder about the demise of Knots than I am. If you look at the number of posts of various folks, you will see that I have been one of Knots' strongest and most active supporters.
I do believe that is Knots has to go, it wold be far better to have a party than to have a slow death. I am a big fan of the New Orleans type of funeral - with joyous music and a focus on remembering the happy times. I believe that not having closure on the death of Knots is a far worse alternative than a happy party of folks who are not going to part -- they are just going over to another forum.
I have invited just about everyone on Knots to come to my house for dinner and and evening of woodworking talk. About a dozen have taken me up on that and we have had a great time. I have made friends via Knots in various parts of the world. Please don't get me wrong. I want the best alternative for the death of Knots, if we don't hear from FWW that they are going to revive it. You have to admit. They haven't fixed the problems. They aren't posting any plans to fix the problems. They are not giving Knots any pep talks. The words from our mutual friend (who everyone on Knots and all of the FWW staff know) seem to be a pretty solid sign of the intentions of the FWW management.
Have fun.
Mel
Dead on arrival?
Seems to me that the so-called "demise' has been "Kervokianed" along by the members here. No activity here? Look in th mirror. I've posted a few posts in the last few weeks, on reply has been the sound of crickets. It's one thing to call a place "dead', but without any attempt to "revive " the dead? Come on now, just because one doesn't like how a site is set up, does that mean one has to go out of their way to "finish it off"? Last rites, anyone?
Dog,
I have replied to almost all of your posts, right up to the end. I am one of the last people here, even though I don't come often any more. I am not reacting to the new format. The new format is fine, but there are a number of software problems that FWW has not solved, including the very obvious lack of a list of Folders on the left of the page, as there used to be. I was one of the last to move over to the :Burl. I hope you hop on over there too. I believe you will enjoy it very much an get a lot more replies than you do here. You are one of the woodworkers who shows photos of his stuff, and that is wonderful. I wish everyone did what you do.
I am sad the others left. I would have liked them to stay. I talked to many of them and it was obvious that many were just disappointed at the lack of support by FWW. So please don't blame me for everyone leaving. I have been one of the most active posters here. But it is no fun posting to an almost empty forum. So please join us over at the Burl.
Have fun.
Mel
Oh, i'm there, alright
just look for a "bandit". I'm currently on five different sites. You'll find me the burl down in the handtool section, and at breaktime, I'm at the home Improvement sections. Seems i know a lot about foundations and such. I was a "Pro" in the concrete field for over six years. I even worked as a "Rod-buster' during that time.
Right now the wood shop is "down", NO HEAT IN A POLE BARN! Although, when your hands are shaking from the cold, it does help with the hand sanding chores. LOL.
Dog,
I am sorry to hear that your woodshop is closed because of the cold. That is a real downer. Let me make a suggestion. Buy Wayne Barton's newest book on Chip Carving, and a chip carving knife. Sit down in your kitchen or family room, and put the trash can between your legs, and learn how to do chip carving. It doesn't take any space, and it doesn't make a mess, if the chips fall into the trash can. Chip carving is a lot of fun, and when you get the hang of it, the results are BEAUTIFUL!. They make great gifts. Also you can learn how to do "peasant painting" on wood. Think of the Pennsylvania Dutch painted furniture. The Germans have a style called Bauernmalerei and the Norwegians have a style calld Rosemaling. I do chip carving, Bauernmalerei and Rosemaling, and they can be done with little space, and no mess. You can do the painting by putting a piece of plastic cloth over the kitchen table. AND YOU CAN STAY WARM. Woodworking is much more than making furniture or making houses and cabinets. It also covers the decorating of wooden items. I sincerely hope you take up something like this. You are a prolific woodworker who enjoys what he does. Don't let the cold get you down. Let me know if you want any advice on chipcarving or decorative painting. See you at the Burl.
Mel
Jerry,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I needed that.
Mel
300 members and growing
Hi Mel,
The Burl now has over 300 members and has just surpassed 1400 posts. It's been averaging about 150 posts a day for the past week. Not too shabby for being dormant for the past ten months.
My favorite topic over there is "Craftsmanship is dead" with nearly 100 replies.
Mike,
With Knots getting a half dozen posts a day, and the Burl, which is made up mostly of ex-Knotheads, getting 150 posts a day, I think that if this was an election, we would now be hearing NBC, ABC and CBS declaring that based on the returns that have been received so far, we declare KNOTS TO HAVE MORPHED INTO THE BURL. That does not mean that KNOTS IS DEAD, but that the members of Knots have simply moved to a different forum. In a very real sense, nothing has changed. One can worship God in a church, at home or on a mountain. One can discuss woodworking topics with woodworkers in any one of a number of forums. The only difference between the way things used to be and the way they are now is the icon that woodworkers click on to get them to the Virtual Place at which they interact. The folks at The Burl have the same or similar names to the ones they used in Knots, and their personalities have not changed (thank God).
Life is good. Let's continue to enjoy it in the virtual company of our woodworking compatriots, at The BURL. I hope that the entire staff of FWW join in the discussion over at The Burl, as if nothing had ever changed. Indeed, I would love to see the FWW staff make an announcement that they will be checking in at The Burl, to keep a finger on the pulse of what the woodworking world is interested in.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Mel
Talk slow now please and don't make fun of me . . .
Mel or any one willing to take my hand,
Knots is costly and provides no cash return.
The Burl, which was started by another former Knots fan, Mike Flaim is free ( can support its self) (suported by adds ?).
I'm confused. (That doesn't take much sometimes).
Will some body explain slowly, as if talking to a child that isn't the sharpest crayon in the box :
a. how one guy can provide a forum but FWW can not.
b. why, in detail, the new forum is better with the same people/contributers.
c. it seems I read he/The Burl has the old posts? How did that happen? Is that true ?
Like I said I am kind of slow here and don't know what all it takes to make up forums like these.
I assumed Knots is slow for these reasons:
We already said it all ( except seeing peoples new projects ) you know how simple FINE woodworking is; can learn it in a project or two. NOT
People are not buying as much from the pros who write here so they are having to spend every spare moment hustling to keep afloat.
The cut and paste is designed by Satan. Hey there's a reason to close down a forum that took years and years to build. This place is possessed ! Oops don't want to reopen that religion thing again.
PS: I like that "Look in the mirror" comment but maybe I am just too simple minded.
The Burl is basically a forum that runs off DelphiForums website and doesn't have any old Knots posts in it. It's completely new and not affiliated with Taunton or any other magazine. I set it up back in Feb but hardly anyone showed up. I didn't market it very well as I didn't have anyone email address to let them know about it. In fact, I kinda forgot about it during the summer. It was only recently when people continued to complain about Knot's bugs that I posted the link that The Burl existed. Mel and a few others took note and from there it finally caught on. It surpassed 1500 posts today and has over 320 members.
The reason for me why the software is better is because you can log on and click "with unread messages"To Me"" and immediately see who responded to your previous posts. You don't have to remember every single post you've made and follow the discussion to see if someone replied to you.
Roc,
I looked in the mirror, but there was no reflection; he was gone. I Googled my reflection, and determined he was at Saw Mill Creek. So I joined him.
Old Knots, at its best, had no time for my stave drum projects, prolly due to no dovetail jigs being used in their construction. I have to say, at Saw Mill Creek, I've posted 3 build threads and a gallery of my work and tooling, and that's been well received. I don't miss Old Knots' gripe about "wot we need are examples of fine woodworking" and "people need to step up", yet the community became a field of chirping crickets when anyone posted a project not from the style period of 1793-1889. Old Knots was a gated community of wood pornographers, and not the good kind, either.
I spent $50 on a 3 year domain registration, $140 on a hosting company, and about $300 on a vBulletin license. Boom. That's all it takes to stand up a forum. Developing the look and feel of a solid commercial enterprise, paying for storage space, and keeping it going, of course, a wholly different issue. Eminently solvable with money.
My drum making forum provides no revenue, it's 100% expense. We give away our core knowledge, and don't require sign up fees. And as long as my other 4 partners, whom I've never met face to face, continue to contribute to the forum's upkeep, then I don't worry so much about revenue. My yearly share of the forum cost is like...one trip to the lumber yard.
SMC is free, it should be noted, and they are not bashful about asking for contributions. That they continue to be online is an indication to me that they have some financial sustainability, could be from the advertising, too.
The 80:20 theory
Roc, it seems to me (having participated on various Internet fora since the late '80s - before the Web) that forum communities are about 80% based on the attitudes or mind-sets of the participants, and about 20% based on management and software features. One forum is better or worse than another based on that mix of factors. Software features and management (forum administrative policies) can have a major effect, but it's mostly a matter of how participants "feel" about the forum.
There are various ways that one (or, a company) can go about setting up a forum, including: A) contracting with a service provider (which, apparently was what Taunton did originally for Knots), B) licensing forum software (e.g. vBulletin or one of the various "free" software packages) and paying for hosting somewhere (e.g. the SMC model, and what Taunton appears to be doing now), or, C) setting up the forum on one of the forum "portal sites" (e.g. Delphi, Yahoo Groups, etc.- essentially what Mike did to set up The Burl) where the underlying costs are paid by the portal site selling advertizing.
The "A" model (service provider) as implemented years ago was fairly costly. In addition to the costs for the service, you paid for storage and bandwidth being used. For active sites, the bandwidth charges could be several $thousand per month. So, while it was free to the participants, it could be quite costly to the "host".
The "B" model is essentially a DIY arrangement. Now, hosting costs are quite minimal, with some offering "unlimited" storage and "unlimited" bandwidth for just a few dollars per month. But, running the software, and particularly making changes to it, requires a fairly well-paid technical staff, or a "host" who can do that himself (or herself). Then, there's the time involved in the administration of the forum and the personnel costs associated with performing those tasks.
The "C" model is the least expensive in terms of running the forum, but also the least flexible in terms of forum features and functionality. The forum is essentially stuck with whatever features the portal site provides. The Burl on Delphi has essentially the same user interface as the old Knots, so it's familiar to former Knotheads - some like it, others live with it.
I has always been my assumption (and I could easily be wrong here) that Taunton was stuck with a high-cost contract under the old "A" model. So, when the economy started to tighten, they looked for ways to trim costs. Paying (potentially) thousands of dollars for a forum that wasn't directly contributing to their revenues just didn't make good business sense. They opted for a "free" open-source forum software package, along with (apparently) less-expensive hosting under the new "B" paradigm. Unfortunately, the migration wasn't handled well, and the tech resources (again, apparently) aren't available to fix the resulting bugs.
Ultimately, however, it's the 80% that "rules" - that is, when a significant number of participants are dissatisfied with the 20% factor, they simply go elsewhere.
Ralph,
Your post is interesting, but a bit confusing to me. You say things like:
- "paying (potentially ) thousands of dollars for a form that wasn't directly contributing to their revenue just didn't make good business sense."
I have the opposite opinion. I think that money spent (up to some limit) by Taunton on Knots is a great way to increase their income by revenue by getting folks to continue their subscriptions FWW and to buy stuff that FWW has for sale. Knots helped FWW subscribers feel like "one of the family". I'll bet that FWW subscriptions have dropped along with participation in Knots. I am about to give up my paid subscription to the electronic FWW.
It wasn't just that Taunton dropped support for Knots, it was THE WAY THEY DID IT. No notice. No info. No indication that anything was amiss. That was, IMHO, a management failure of massive proportions. A few words could have eased the whole process and reduced hard feelings. A big part of management is setting expectations. THEY DID NOTHING to be helpful to those of us in Knots who were (and still are) wondering what was happening. I still would like an explanation from Taunton management.
I have the feeling that Taunton management had a plan for Knots, and it is now being implemented. I do not think that what happened was an accident. I believe it has been planned for a while.
I have heard a good deal of talk that FWW is on shaky footing, and is in danger of folding. I don't have any real information on how real that is. They sure are increasing the amount of catering they are doing to newbies, beginners and lower intermediates. I understand that they may think that this may increase readership, and it may. But there are already lots of magazines around which cater to such folks. What doesnt exist is a magazine that caters to higher end woodworkers. I'd be happy to quadruple what I pay for FWW for a magazine that caters to "fine woodworkers".
Interesting, when I read the stuff that Chris Schwartz writes, I get the feeling that he is passionate about woodworking, and that he works VERY HARD to be interesting to his readers. I don't get the feeling that the FWW management has the passion for fine woodworking, or the abiding interest in keeping their customers happy. If they did, they would not have handled Knots the way they did.
But this is all a dead issue now. Not worth thinking about much anymore. The folks over at the Burl have pretty much forgotten about Knots now. I am just about over it. Not quite, but almost.
Have fun. Time to go back to the shop.
Mel
more detail
You're correct, Mel. I should have said, " . . . paying (potentially ) thousands of dollars for a form that wasn't directly contributing to their revenue just didn't make good business sense, if you don't have to." Otherwise, I agree that Knots was an important element in the Taunton/FWW marketing strategy. As such, it deserves greater management attention. How much, and at what expense, is up to Taunton management.
On the flip side of the coin, I don't think that most people appreciate the inner workings of the publishing business. Even during the best of times, publishing is generally a "thin-margin" business. Subscriptions generally pay for only a fraction of paper costs. Other production and staff expenses are covered by ad revenues. And, during good years there's a bit left over as profit.To keep ad revenues up, magazines need to look like they appeal to a demographic advertizers are interested in reaching. I'm confident that is what has driven the shift in editorial focus over the last few years.
When I was at Miller Freeman (now, a decade ago), the company published a total of 160 different magazines at its peak, each catering to a different market and associated demographic. The magazine I worked on was one of the more profitable in their portfolio, but even our margin was less than 10%, often half that. They also published a hand full of high-end, specialized newsletter/journal type of publications. The subscription costs for those were in the $500/year range, because the editorial, production and research costs were higher, and the subscriber base had virtually no appeal to advertizers. So, they had to be supported solely by subscriptions. Thus, I suspect a magazind catering only to the experienced "fine woodworker" would be of little appeal to advertizers, since we have already bought most of the tools we need.
For me, the subscription cost of FWW is still worthwhile, even with the increased emphasis on beginner topics. Similarly, the online subscription is still in my budget, because it provides online access to back issues. Knots was never a consideration for me in that respect.
And, in fairness, Gina did make a post prior to the software change - explaining that a change needed to be made, and requesting suggestions for an appropriate forum software package. I don't expect a company to share its inner workings, management decisions, or financials with me as a consumer. That stuff is none of my business.
Ralph,
I know it's early, but Merry Christmas. I hope the new year brings you health, happiness, fulfillment, and nice snug dovetails.
Mel
Thanks for the post
Mel:
You're probably gone by now but I'm thanking you anyway. I haven't been here in a while, there just isn't much going on. I miss my woodworking educators and I thank you for the post, which may enable me to find some of the people who helped me so many times.
I'll be checking out burl and saw mill creek.
Thanks, Jim
Jim,
Thanks for writing. Glad to help. See you at the Burl.
Mel
Standstill
Just one more voice in this discussion.... In the 'good old days', Knots was a social gathering where the topic of conversation was woodworking. There were many conversations and you could EASILY jump from one conversation to another. Many of the people on the old Knots board were writers for the magazine and upheld a higher standard and politely nudged us up to that higher standard. Yes, there were some heated arguments, some people being banished from the board, and even some people being asked to join the board because of their contributions to the woodworking fraternity. There were several (many) people whoes word was the 'gold standard,' and if they said it was true, you could 100% rely on it being true (or false) as the conversation unfolded. As with every party, people come and go, but when there is a sudden and rapid exodus from a party, the whole experience changes. I collect old woodworking tools and try to join tose conversations that deal with identifying old tools, I make lots of small wooden toys (not too many conversations on that topic) and try to improve my skills, both as a woodworker and a 'designer' of toys. If I build a cabinet or large item, it's far more of a utility object than a piece of fine furniture. However, the discussions on finishing, jointery and procedures that I have read on Knots greatly helps me produce a far better product than I would have without the help from my friends on this board.
My two complaints with the current setup are,: #1 SPEED, or rather, lack of speed.when changing from one topic to the next. I must go all the way back to 'home' and then chose another topic. I don't know if it is because of MY computer, but if I post a reply, I must go all the way back to 'home' in order to go on to the next posting within the topic I'm reading. I find it very slow, cumbersome, and annoying. Complaint #2 is partially me. I'm color-blind and certain color combinations just do not work well with my eyes. This light blue?? small sized type against a lighter blue?? background, is a royal strain on my eyes. Anyway, I have found myself drawn to 'Burl', but I will check back here on occasion to see if anything has improved or changed.
SawdustSteve Long Island, NY (E of NYC)
Steve,
As you described so well, the old glory days of Knots are over. We all miss them. Glad to see you have joined the Burl. It is a lot closer to the old Knots and has many of the old Knotheads. See you over there.
Mel
everything comes and goes. nothing lasts forever
ron
If Knots is "over" why
If Knots is "over" why keep posting? Why not complete your migration?
I think that
he just likes to hear himself talk
ron
Maybe, maybe..
One of the reasons I come back here is that I can posts pictures as much as I like. Some others just hang around here, not wanting let go, but complain about it 's not like the "Old Days". Saw Mill Creek will let you post a picture, but not dupilcate picture, as in, more than one thread. The Burl has a limit on how many pictures I can post, size wise. I'm already near it's limits now. Woodnet is very hard to post pictures for me, too complicated. I can "Blog" all I want at American Woodworker, but rarely hear anything back, it's deader than this place, as far as any talking goes. There are some other sites out there.
I guess some like to just complain. Never trying to boost things up around here, but always "pitching" another site as "better" than this ( or that) site. So the "new" program here is not to their liking, fine, go to another, but why sit around here and drag this site down. I don't know, I guess some don't like change, and are just "pining" for the "Good Old Days".
Hey Dog,
That is a very nice reindeer. I like the contrast between the white body and the dark antlers. Very Cool.
Mel
How about a sleigh, as well?
All out of a couple pallet slats. Some work on a bandsaw, drill a few holes in the runners, and beltsand some curves. Add some stain, varnish if you want. About an hour to make. Reindeer takes about as long. It's out of just a piece of 1x6 pine. Other woods could be used, if you have some scraps just laying around. Antlers only have a coat of dark Walnut stain. Body has a coat of Ipswich Pine. Add a fuzzy red nose and some eyes.
Dog,
You go good work. Keep on woodworking. and Keep on posting photos. Don't pay attention to the nay-sayers. :-) Thanks for showing me your latest. I wish you lived closeby.
Mel
There are those who do and there are those who boo.
Just as there are folks who build shops and seldom build projects; there are those who build projects in any kind of shop.
Just as there are those who sharpen chisels and plane irons using many stones to the extent that they seldom use the sharpened tool, there are those who sharpen the fastest possible way on belt sanders and make a living with the end result.
Just as there are those who flatten faces and edges with planes and seldom get those edges and faces into a piece of furniture, there are those who use power planers, joiners, and sanders to get a project completed in the available time.
Just as there are those who enjoy studying and talking about the history of furniture making more than they enjoy furniture making, there are those who only use history as a guide while they complete today’s tasks.
Just as there are folks who want the Knots Forum to be their personal play pen and bitterly resent any changes in its format, there are those who still see it as a totally useable resource for woodworking needs and don’t understand what all of the fuss is about.
Just as there are folks who boo, there are folks who do. It is for each of us to decide in which camp we reside. Remember that the view from Mt. Olympus is sometimes obscured by fog.
Jerry
I'm swooning. I am getting the vapors.
Mel,
I just got back from the B***. I got on , signed up, posted and got out without getting caught. It was exhilarating ! Filled up the pic quota too. Oh man !
That was good !
That was good !
I was cut and pasting ! ! ! ! Regular too; not that perverted, back room, on a dog collar,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMTEefxUxVk&feature=related
just spank me, kind a cut and pasting we got strung out on here.
Let me tell you !
OK I'm gonna go do some stretches, get a massage and maybe a nap.
What an evening.
Shhhh others people may hear the secret.....
Negatives
I won't get "political" here, But I'am surprised SYSOP hasn't pulled your cord ! I'm Frequenting three Forums, Knots included !
But your getting a bit too negative. No offence intended.
Last in line
Not necessarily responding to Jerry,
Seems to me there is something not right about complaining about this forum and then moving on to poach the few remaining members. Specially since the complaining seems to be going on and on and on...... Fine, you don't like it here, move on to your new forum but quit trying to poach members from this one. After all one can just as easily go to "the burl" claim the interface is too old looking and backwards and direct tell members that other forums like Lumberjocks, woodnet, etc are better.
Bottom line, for those new members who join this forum, who are used to the current "look" will start to participate and make this forum good once again, which brings me to the next question. What is so great about the "old" members that makes the Burl so great? Do I really want to go to another forum and read the same old tired opinions that were posted here in the past?!? Like how I should spend my money and how I am a fool for buying top of the line tools? Or how some people are not "real" woodworkers because they make kitchen cabinets?... I don't think so.
This constant whining about the forum has gotten old, move on people, you now have somewhere to go and leave those of us who still enjoy this forum alone.
I miss the "To All" button
To everyone,
Thanks for the info and perspectives. There is such a wealth of info on this data base. When some one new would show up with a question it was easy to plug in a link or two going to past discussions then I wouldn't have to type so much until they got to specifics that were fresh that all of us could then help them with.
And then there is the online past issues of the magazine and one can send them there for well written info. If they aren't a member then it is incentive for them to become a member so they can read the articles.
The forum and the magazine archive all on one site is such a great resource.
The magazine seems to have responded to requests to providing more Fine woodworking articles that are advanced stuff; the corner chair for example.
I don't know. When I go to other forums I either find top shelf people but such a weird layout that I don't like using it or really nice layout but it seems to be all router and biscuit discussions.
I wouldn't mind just staying here. At the burl I didn't find much in the way of nitty gritty woodworking discussions. Maybe I just didn't look in the right place. (got caught up with christmas activities and messing about with shellac and I haven't explored the burl, some, and the Canadian forum, not at all yet, as much as I normally would )
As far as the shellac goes I dug out some really old button lac I mixed up in 10-'03 and tried it out. I expected it to be messed up and as I understand it it should not dry hard or some such. It works great ! I'm confused.
Oh well that is another thread I suppose.
Thanks again all who posted here.
Roc,
I understand and agree with your post. Some of the loonies who have responded to me in this thread came to the conclusion that i was about to leave, and was recommending that the leave. Not true. I was recommending that they augment their on line experience by going to the Burl also. I said that I am going to stick around here until the lights go out, and that I hope that never happens.
You and I use Knots differently. I saw Sarge Grinder on the Burl the other day, and mentioned that I hadn't seen him on Knots in a long while. He send back a very nice message which hit the nail on the head. He mentioned that he was in the middle of a large project, BUT that he had changed. He no longer asks woodworking questions on line, and he is not really interested in answering such questions any more. WOW. I HAVE FELT THAT WAY FOR A LONG TIME TOO.
I use Knots of the Burl as a short break after coming up from the shop. I use it for comraderie and rarely for technical info. I haven't found many questions that I can't find answers for by doing a thorough search. I enjoy the give and take of exchanging wit and humor. I like the interpersonal aspects of the forums.
I have a belief that the primary value/attitude of a good woodworker is that he is essentially self-sufficient. He can figure his way out of anything, and he can figure out how to get things done. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE IS AN ISLAND. There is a mountain of info in books and on line.
There is one case in which I discuss woodworking techniques on line -- that is to find out someone's "biases" on the subject. How does Larry handle this situation? How does Ray tackle this situation? Notice, I am not looking for how to do it. I already know a few ways. Now I just want to know how certain people that I respect do the thing. There are few FACTS in woodworking. There are lots of opinions, and if you are talking to a competent woodworker, then hearing their opinion about how to do it is kinda interesting.
About your thought on looking up info on Knots and FWW on line. I agree. Indeed, I once suggested, merely as a fun exercise, that a group of woodworkers could make a fairly complete list of woodworking questions and issues, and then they could go through the past issues and find articles on each. I believe if that is done, they would find dozens to hundreds of articles on every imaginable topic, and thus there would be no need ever to publish another article. How many more FWW articles do we need on how to do dovetails or how to fix mortise and tenon joints, etc. Of course, I didn't really mean that one should stop publishing, I meant that doing such an exercise would lead a publisher to do different types of articles -- much more creative ones -- riskier ones
Over the past few years, I have read a number of old time woodworking books (classics). You know, not much changes. There is not much new to write about unless you are trying to keep up with all of the new changes that Festool is making to their line (and stuff of that ilk).
OH well, time to get back to the shop. I enjoyed your thought provoking message. Hope you enjoyed my response. I hope the two of us never lose contact - be it here or on the Burl or regular email. You are one of the folks who makes life even more fun because you think deeply and provoke real thought in others. Also, you are a gentleman who never tries to stir trouble with innuendo and personal slurs. The last few who replied to this thread should take a cue from your way of operating. Obviously I didn't reply to them.
Have fun.
Mel
In defence of Mel.
In defense of Mel, he didn't say Things are getting kinda slow around here, let’s all go over to Burl. For months he tried to get new and interesting topics going and he succeeded with a number of them. But it seemed like he was the only one trying. There is a place for posting a question and getting three or four answers but there is also a place for discussions and fun and thirty or forty clever replies. He even brought back an old thread with hundreds of posts just to show what could happen when things got lively in "the old days".
Oh Lord....
Would you get off your soap box and holier than thou attitude?
"the place to get such answers is on the Burl."
Sorry, but there are plenty of other forums much better than the Burl to get questions answered. Which brings me back to my original response, what is so great about the burl? Now, what you call "trouble making" some of us call it calling it as we see it. Some of us are tired of your whining, your page long responses stating your opinion as fact, in short you are one of the most obnoxious personalities I have ever encountered on the net. Now, for many of us here it would be a relief to see you go to the burl for good, just that would make THIS forum better.
PS, I know you wont answer this, but it needs to be seen by the new people.
You're right he won't answer this. As I thumbed through this and saw another one of his speeches I noticed he said something about "the loonies" who have responded to him.
Is that the pot calling the kettle black?
Does insufferable ring a bell Mel?
Well Peter, hopefully he has gone to the burl for good and we can concentrate on making this forum better. Funny thing, I checked the burl forum and he does not seem to write the page long diatribes there as he does here....
JG,
How are you doing?
Mel
a
Getting It
The old Taunton (late '70's) published a magazine that challenged every woodworker that picked it up. It not only challenged everyone, it also piqued their curiosity and made them a bit jealous. Also inspired them and frustrated them. In short - a relationship was formed.
For those of us that live in this world, we know our passion is more than a job or career - it is a lifestyle. It sdoesn't stop when we turn out the light and go into the house. We built the house, and most of the stuff in it. Even the TV we stare at is in some sort of box we labored over. There is that nice quilted Maple I had saved for something just right....
Tuanton got it. The abstract. The core of what made us tick. I beleive the credit goes to Paul Roman if you are looking for a name. But credit also goes to all of us that bought into this way of life and supported the magazine and all it represented.
Then something happened. The magazine changed. The new crew was determined to place their publication in the check-out lane at every big box home improvement center - to increase sales? Subscriptions plummeted. Other magazines started up, trying to recapture that abstract that was in the old Fine Woodworking. The advertising tripled.
If you were not a part of the old FW, you can not know what it was like. As they say, 'You had to be there'.
Same with the forum. It was more than a pastime for many of the participants. It could challenge you, confront your beleifs, make you jealous, make you laugh. Right or wrong, that is the way it was. Every occasional visitor would be drawn in by myriad conversations - often feeling like a cheap eavesdropper, but drawn in none the less. Then it is cut down in its prime, with no warning or explanation and now not even an apology or hint of same. I wonder how much insult people will take before they get the hint. Apparently quite a bit, but then as we see, it is all relative to what's being compared.
The new Taunton just doesn't get it. It is not on the balance sheet. They won't get it. Too abstract. This is the 21st century, and there is no room for those old abstractions, touchy-feely things, community and the like.
This is why people are slow to leave. Why they talk about the regret they feel. Why they want to share any good news. What is wrong with that?
Well said.
Acorn
Your comments sum it up perfectly, and I can honestly say I couldn't have said it better. Those who weren't around here, MEL INCLUDED, 10 years ago have no clue about the time and effort invested in making this forum (once, and in the past) the best out there. The rag was the best, and so was the forum. Now, the magazine wants to sell Grizzly tools to hobbyists, and the folks running things at Taunton couldn't give a hoot about the data base of information that they destroyed here at the Knots.
I'm done with this, and movin' on.
Jeff
Passion is it now?
I guess I have a wee bit of that, now. So much so, that I have been banned from WOOD magazines little site! They couldn't get over that annoying fact that a Concrete Guy (as they refered to me) could even DO any woodworking at all, let alone to their "Standards". Ever hear of an "Off Topic Forum" that wouldn't allow any jokes? A post like this one would have been shut down a long time ago. And, Mel would have been BANNED from the site, too boot!
I like being here, and so other places as well. However, my two Bronzes, one Silver, and three purples, were not won so someone could tell me what not to say. I'm still picking out both "made in China", and Made in USA junk out of my hide, 39 years later. So talk all you want, Mel, I helped give you THAT right.
Dog,
I am sorry that you got kicked off of the Wood website. You seem like a nice guy who does more woodworking than anyone else. I would guess that folks would want you to be around.
I have great respect for concrete guys. I did roads and driveways for one summer when I was in school. That is hard work and you have to know what you are doing. I was merely "hired labor". I just did what I was told, and it was a good summer. I learned a lot.
I guess that someone called you names or denigrated you in some way. Too bad. As you have seen, there are two guys here doing that to me. Please notice that I have not gotten angry with them, or ever responded to them. If you do that, you stoop to their level. When someone insults you, they are only showing their ignorance. Don't bother to respond. Let them show the world how they act. Intelligent people will shun them. Please notice that the two guys who have tried to be nasty to me have gotten little support, if any.
So you think that I would be thrown out of other forums. Possible. But why? I have stated my position that FWW has not handled the demise of Knots well at all. I have not called them names. I have not asked people to leave Knots, but merely add another forum to their list, just like you and I do. I have given FWW management a number of suggestions as to how to improve things. I have said that i understand and agree with their need to increase readership and thus to have articles for beginners. I have said that I understand that they may not have the funds to take care of Knots, and I merely asked that, if that is the case, they stop into Knots and let the residents knots understand their situation. i believe everyone would be supportive of them, even if they had to shut the place down -- as long as they just come out and be forthright with us.
Please note that I would much rather discuss things with someone who disagrees with me than someone who agrees with me. It is far more fun. But I will not respond to someone who is not civil and polite. I will not respond to someone who tells me I believe something which I have denounced. I enjoy discussing things with polite civil intelligent people.
Have fun. Keep making wooden items. You do a great job.
Mel
Hmm..
I take that you've never had someone post a picture of a can of "Troll Repellent" as an answer to a post of yours, and then have the "Moderators" laugh at it. Enough said on that.
Dog,
That idea of responding to a post by posting a photo of a can of repellant is REALLY clever and funny, especially if done in a respectful way. VERY CLEVER.
I guess that reason that doesn't happen is that I don't respond to the nasty guys. I just hang around with folks who are fun to be around.
Mel
For crying out loud.....
Don't you read the magazine? Have you taken a look at the current issue? Do you support FWW by subscribing to the magazine or the online version? Or do you just want your freebies and this forum to be as you want it?
We don't know the financial constraints the magazine and it's employees are under, but IMO the magazine is doing a great job, so the forum is not great, so what?!? I rather see them continue to do a great job on the magazine and leave the forum for when they get a chance and some money to improve it..
I am so tired of this bitching about the forum as if it where the main purpose of this site. The MAGAZINE and it's articles are what is important, not this forum. You want a better forum, then put your money where your mouth is and support them with a subscription, otherwise not only will the forum dissapear but the magazine as well.
Jim,
I obviously agree with your sentiments on the loss of the Knots community -- at least the large active one that used to be.
As far as FWW goes, I don't feel as strongly about it as you do. I do read it every month. I am retired and have time on my hands. I do a lot of woodworking, but have plenty of time for grandkids, for reading and for other activities. I am hopeful that the hiring of Michael Fortune will do good things for FWW.
I have a friend in the UK, David Savage, who I would love to see have a few articles in FWW. He has been incredibly successful in the training of woodworkers who have become successful in their own right. NO ONE ELSE HAS has his level in success in doing this. I follow his website and I can see some of the things he does for them, but I am sure he could write a WONDERFUL article on how to successfully train others to be successful in a woodworking career.
Also, he is incredibly successful in the making and selling of studio furniture. I would like to see an article or two about his approach to the design of modern furniture. I once heard him talk for three straight hours, during which no one left the room. He is a very engaging speaker . I hope someone at FWW is reading these posts and sees these positive suggestions and picks up on one or two of them. I don't plan to give up my subscription. I still think it is worth the price. You have a few alternatives which you mentioned. I have seen issues. They are very good.
Anyway, thank you for writing. Good luck with your woodwork.
Mel
Mel,
Thanks for your response. I am familliar with David Savage's work and can certainly agree that his design ideas are very interesting and he writes well on the subject. I knew he ran a school but had not heard about his teaching success. He has written one ot two articles on design for British Woodworking.
As you may have gathered, design is a particular interest of mine and, being retired I have the time to indulge it. You may be interested to take a look at the table I recenly made for my daughter which you can see on her photoblog here
http://www.photoblog.com/girafferacing/2009/05/08/worth-the-wait.html
The idea was to do something that celebrates the origins of the material that we furniture makers love and sometimes hate (when it won't do what we want it to), so the frame is as tree-like as I could make it with roots rising from the floor into a trunk and then branching to support the top. The frame is in steam bent ash (not sycamore as Helen says on her blog) and the strengthening webs are ply veneered and lipped in walnut. The top is veneered in maple burr (the main wood) and elm burr (the small dark segments) and is edged with solid sycamore. The idea is to represent a tree canopy which is why the segments are random in size and curvature. The frame is quite a satisfying form from above so the glass panel was added so that it could be seen, but that left me feeling that it needed a focal point. After a lot of thought, a fallen sycamore leaf seemed like a nice conceit.
Jim
Jim,
ASTOUNDINGLY BEAUTIFUL TABLE! You are a Master. The design is a prize winner, and the execution is magnificent. I viewed and studied the photos after reading your message, which said you are interested in design. I wasn't prepared for what I saw. I'd rank that as one of the best pieces that I have seen in the last decade. You had the creativity to come up with the "tree" idea, and then the guts to make the panels different sizes, as would be the case with a real tree. The veneer work just bowled me over.
If you lived near me, I would come over and ask if you would take me as an apprentice. :-)
I'd recommend that you put those photos up here in the Gallery, or also over in The Burl. You can get in there by going to:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/burl/start
Please post photos of your future work when you make it. You are in the upper echelons of the folks around here. I will post photos of my chairs in a few days.
Thank you very much.
Mel
Table
Wow ! I feel like I just looked at a table built on a different planet. Quite a nice world to visit. Keep up the great work.
Roc,
Glad to hear that someone else thinks that is a GREAT table. That is way above the stuff we usually see around here, and it is much better than anything that I do. That message was one of those times when I felt INSPIRED. If he can do, then I should be able to do something that different and that good. It is good to get surprised once in a while, and that table surprised me. Think of the thousands of times we have seen people arguing about whether one plane is better than another, or asking which bandsaw someone should , or why you really need an infill plane. Then someone comes from out of the blue and makes a phenomenal table. THAT IS WHAT WOODWORKING SHOULD BE ALL ABOUT - not discussions of BU vs BD.
You can tell, that table got my blood flowing.
Enjoy,
Mel
I've been to the Burl
But I keep coming back here. There are some fine woodworkers here and I learn a lot from them. There just aren't as many these days.
And, my, that is a beautiful table.
Did you check out Ron's turnings? Wow!
Bret
Bret,
Thank you for that nice message. Glad you liked the table. I will check out Ron's turnings. Thanks for giving me a heads up[.
I think you know that I never suggested that people leave here and not come back. I simply let them know that there is another place which is getting to be more and more like the old knots. Like you, I keep coming back here. I have said, and I mean, that I will be one of the last to abandon Knots.
Like you there are a lot of folks I can learn from. Seeing that table was a real eye opener. That was one of the best pieces that I have seen in a long time. Very inspiring. I am now trying to go farther out of my comfort zone in the area of design -- all because of message here on Knots.
Hope this season is good to you and your family. All is well here in Virginia, and I am about to be visited by all of my children and grandchildren for Christmas. IT DOES NOT GET ANY BETTER THAN THAT. And they will be getting some nice woodworking presents. :-)
Have fun.
Mel
not discussions of BU vs BD ? Really. Are you sure ?
Hmmm.
I pretty much use wood working as an excuse to buy new cool stuff and learn how to use them. I am still kind of like the kid that finally got the surfboard to stay rightside up with him on it. I do a double take when it happens because it is so fascinating to me. Well maybe not that bad but pretty close.
As you can tell from some of my project posts I take a slab of wood, plane it smooth and put some finish on it so I can see the figure in the best way possible and put it in the living room to gaze at (and occasionally put stuff on and eat dinner on it ).
When I dream of getting really wild and crazy I dream of duplicating a standard piece from the past; material, proportions, finish and joinery. A standard lamp table or during a particularly acute Walter Mitty flight of fancy duplicating a highboy right out of Winterthure.
Creativity ? Not really my corner of the pasture.
I got lots to say about the tools though. Oodles and gobs.
I just want to dink around with the tools. Is that so wwwrrrrrrrong ?
Roc,
"I just want to dink
Roc,
"I just want to dink around with the tools. Is that so wwrrrrrrong?
Absolutely not! The goal of all of us should be to follow the advice of Frank Sinatra who said "I did it my way".
I applaud your approach to your hobby. I applaud the verve and vigor with which you tackle it.
But it isn't my approach to woodworking. One of the nice things about the forums is that we can all learn about the approaches of others. We can learn from them. We can read what others say, and say "Oh, that's nice, but it isn't what I want to do." It would be horrible if we all took the same approach. There would be nothing to say.
My approach to woodworking is much different than yours. I focus on developing a new piece of woodwork, and the tools are not only secondary, they are tertiary or even lower. While I describe my ideas in conversations with others, I HAVE NEVER SUGGESTED THAT ANYONE ELSE ACCEPT MY IDEAS. Certainly, I would never suggest that anyone adopt my ideas.
Actually I used the term "my ideas" rather cavalierly. "My ideas" are all taken (borrowed) from others. In general my approaches/values/attitudes toward woodworking are those boring ideas of the professionals (Ray Pine, Charles Stanford, Richard Jones, etc) EXCEPT FOR ONE MAJOR thing. That is, I work slowly rather than at the pace one has to work to make a living at woodwork. Over the past half-decade, no one has influenced my woodworking more than Ray and Charles. Indeed, because of that, I call my approach to woodwork, the "Ray Charles" approach. By the way, I am not equating my skill level with theirs. At the rate that I am learning, I will never come close to catching up with them, but that isn't my goal either. My goal is to enjoy the trip. We only go this way once. Might as well grab for all the gusto. (a great line by Budweiser :-)
I am not looking for acceptance among the folks on the forum. I am not looking for them to say "Good job, Mel". I look to them for a fun and valuable exchange of ideas. It is much more fun for me to talk to a person with ideas different than mine, than to talk to someone who thinks similarly.
I don't share your passion for tools. BUT I share your passion for passion. Your excitement about what you do is infectious. When I see you have written a message, I want to read it. You are positive, upbeat and a self starter. You are an independent thinker, and you are not just a talker. YOU ARE AN ACTIVE DO-er. You are acceptive of ideas which are different than yours. You analyze and do excellent critiques. What could be better? You and I have similar meta-goals -- to actively do our thing and to be excited as we go, and to continue to learn along the way, and TO ENJOY THE TRIP. The fact that we take different roads in our travels only makes conversation more fun, and gives us more o learn from one another.
Does that explain it? Of course, if you were Charles, you would only read a paragraph of this, and respond. "Mel, Get a life. Stop all that writing and go back to the shop."
Have fun.
Mel
Once Was Enough
We get your drift, many times over. I'm sure it wasn't intended, but the repetition sounds like gloating.
I'm swooning. I am getting the vapors.
Mel,
I just got back from the B***. I got on , signed up, posted and got out without getting caught. It was exhilarating ! Filled up the pic quota too. Oh man !
That was good !
That was good !
I was cut and pasting ! ! ! ! Regular too; not that perverted, back room, on a dog collar,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMTEefxUx...
just spank me, kind a cut and pasting we got strung out on here.
Let me tell you !
OK I'm gonna go do some stretches, get a massage and maybe a nap.
What an evening.
PS: I'm curious to know if you would have ever seen this post that I originally put in the wrong place at the top of this thread. Duplicating it here, since I can't delete the mistake earlier in the thread,
You are all very kind in your comments and I am very glad you like my table.
What is even more pleasing is for others to feel inspired and I hope that a little more information about my background and approach may help others reading this thread to feel they can take risks and run with an idea, however daunting it may appear.
I was very fortunate to be able to retire at the age of 57 from a long and enjoyable career as a specialist lawyer in 2000. A couple of years before that, realising I would be retiring and would need to have something to do if I were to stay out of the divorce courts, I set to pondering what it might be. Having fiddled around with bits of wood and done things around the house all my married life, it seemed that furniture making might be an option worth investigating, so I booked on a course at West Dean College where I met an inspirational tutor, Bernard Allen. Over the last 12 years or so he has helped me gain the knowledge and skills to realise my design ideas.
But, it is important to say that I do not consider myself to be in any way an exceptionally skilled maker. I often look at the work of my fellow students and marvel at the sheer quality and accuracy of their work. What I do have is patience, the ability to be painstaking and to take a philosophical attitude to my stupid mistakes and the occasional disappointment. The point of saying all of this is to make the point that all the frustration and waking up in the middle of the night thinking about a project is far outweighed by the quiet satisfaction and sometimes sheer elation I obtain when the finished article fully and successfully reflects that germ of an idea I had in the first place. For me, it is all about risk, which can certainly be scary, being amply rewarded. This is not, of course to say that I am ever completely satisfied; like every maker I have ever met, I always feel there are things I could have done better.
If seeing my table inspires one aspiring and reasonably skilled maker to take a risk and run with his or her ideas, I will be more than satisfied. I am very fortunate in having, in the form of my long term tutor and very good friend, the ability to discuss and bounce ideas and problems around but that is where I think forums can be so very valuable as a source of advice, ideas, friendship and yes, comfort.
I will post the link in the other places suggested.
Steady on . . .
>enjoyed your message more than any other . . . since the wife said yes<
Easy now Mel. I don't know who is nuttier, you or me.
: )
maybe the Gimp got you all excited. That scene gets funnier every time I see it. I hope nobody took it the wrong way. To that one or two : chill out it is a comedy.
Trip to the Burl :
It was nice to have some of the control back that we lost here.
Mel,
Very kind, Mel. I really wanted to send you a PM but can't find a way to do that on this forum. Is it possible?
Jim
Jim,
Writing a private message on Knots is like making dovetails by hand. It seems daunting at first, but is a piece of cake once you know how. Here is how.
1) get into Knots (anywhere)
2) look at the left side of the page. You will see your name, Rainham, in white on a dark background. Under that you will see a list: Home, Post New, My Profile, My inbox, Members, .........
3) Click on My Inbox. That takes you to a page at which you can read private messages sent to you or write one.
4) You will see "Write a message". Click on that. You will have to know the exact spelling of the Knots name of the person you are writing to. For me, it is simply 9619 which is my street number. Then just write a message in the message box, and click on Post. That is all there is to it.
But there is an even easier way. I will go and do that right now, and you will receive a notice in your email box that you have a private message on Knots. When you click on the appropriate link, it will take you to the "My Inbox" page that I told you about above. When you see my message, You can just click "Reply" and it will send me a private message.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Mel
Jim,
Writing a private message on Knots is like making dovetails by hand. It seems daunting at first, but is a piece of cake once you know how. Here is how.
1) get into Knots (anywhere)
2) look at the left side of the page. You will see your name, Rainham, in white on a dark background. Under that you will see a list: Home, Post New, My Profile, My inbox, Members, .........
3) Click on My Inbox. That takes you to a page at which you can read private messages sent to you or write one.
4) You will see "Write a message". Click on that. You will have to know the exact spelling of the Knots name of the person you are writing to. For me, it is simply 9619 which is my street number. Then just write a message in the message box, and click on Post. That is all there is to it.
But there is an even easier way. I will go and do that right now, and you will receive a notice in your email box that you have a private message on Knots. When you click on the appropriate link, it will take you to the "My Inbox" page that I told you about above. When you see my message, You can just click "Reply" and it will send me a private message.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Mel
!
I
C
Ur
A
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