Replies

1. 
   roc | Oct 27, 2009 04:43am | #1

   I will talk with you more later after dinner but check this article out in the mean time it is here on FWW

   https://www.finewoodworking.com/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesPDF.aspx?id=2652

   I do a lot of this sort of thing so I hear yah. Takes a lot of work.

   • do you have winding sticks ?

   • can square the ends of large plank by running shooting plane right on your work bench assuming it is flat.

   • What wood do you have in mind working with now and in the future ?

   roc

   Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )

   
   

   ---

   Edited 10/26/2009 9:43 pm by roc

1. 
   mikeybabe | Oct 27, 2009 06:16am | #4

   Hello Roc,Last year a bought a bucket load of Jarrah. Probably not the best timber to start with but I loved the colour of it and the stuff I bough was very very old and had gone this beautiful darkish red. I don't normally go for darker timbers. In fact I never go for them but this had character. I'm probably the wrong person to own something like this because I fear I will probably mess it up and have to throw it out which would be criminal ?So I thought it would be wise to start at the beginning and learn a thing or two. Years ago I was never patient enough to have to sharpen things and spend hours doing it. But you begin to see the importance of it as you move on in life. So I'm becoming more serious about it now and am open to learning more.Hope we can talk furtherKind Regards,Mike

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Oct 28, 2009 02:54am | #14

   Mike,I would recommend practicing on some easy-to-work wood. I haven't worked with Jarrah, but don't think it qualifies as such a wood. Learn on softwood, then apply your newly mastered skills to your Jarrah masterpiece.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)

    - Success is not the key to happiness.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

2. 
   Glaucon | Oct 27, 2009 05:31am | #2

   MB,

   That's quite a handle, definitely worth a few wedgies in shop class.

   Key elements- accurate tools (esp hand planes) and a little instruction.

   1. You don't say how old your #7 is. If it is pre-WWII, and it is fettled with a sharp blade and a true sole, you're OK. Invest in a good try square (or a Starrett T-square if you can afford it). Don't buy cheap marking and measuring gear- you will just have to toss it and get decent stuff. You can make your own winding sticks.

   3. Make sure your wood is seasoned and stickered while you mill it by hand.

   4. If you haven't learned to plane, invest in some of David Charlesworth's DVDs. Some find him pedantic, but I don't and he is systematic. You can buy them on-line at Lie-Nielsen and probably Amazon.

   Good luck,

   Glaucon

   If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...

1. 
   mikeybabe | Oct 27, 2009 06:10am | #3

   Thank you very much I do appreciate very much your response and have taken note of your advice. My number 7 if fairly new. But the big disappointment was that the sole of it was not flat and I was not getting good results . I thought it was me at first and then someone told me when they looked at it that the sole was concaved and that it needed to be flattened.When I made further inquiries and went to great lengths to take it to an engineering works where they could do that, because the plane was so long it wouldn't fit on their machinery. So then I commenced trying to flatten it by hand using wet and dry spray glued to the top of a very flat metal part of an old table saw that is perfectly flat and square. I have been doing this for weeks and it is still not completely flat but getting better.What are winding sticks ?Bye for now,Mike

2. 
   mikeybabe | Oct 27, 2009 06:47am | #6

   Which David Charlesworth DVD would you recommend and which teaches me how to flatten lumber on all 4 sides?Ciao,Mike

1. 
   Glaucon | Oct 27, 2009 07:01pm | #8

   M,The Lie-Nielsen site has a good listing of many DVDs (http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1320). The D C Handtools set (parts 1 and 2- plane preparation and hand-planing) are both very good. There is a third on shooting that is also good. The site also has a DVD by Rob Cosman "Rough to Ready" that I have not seen- but it might be worth a look.Actually, once you know how to hand-plane, milling four square lumber is not at all difficult.Winding sticks are basically a set of two straight edges (usually with one side in a light, contrasting color, that are placed on the front and back edge of a board to look for twist or "wind". By siting along them, small deflections from flat and square can be detected.Your plane dilemma is a common one. Stanley planes made after WWII took a big dive in quality. The most expensive part of making a plane is milling the sole flat, and machining the frog precisely. These are labor and QC intensive, and are the first to go when a company starts to economize- they are also the most important aspects of the plane, I think. Hence the latter day Stanley, Anant, and Groz planes will disappoint. You have a few options-1. You can continue to hand grind your #7.If you start at a coarse grit of sandpaper and work your self up to 1000, you will (eventually) get there.2. You can buy a new plane- either Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley are very good, the latter are a little less expensive.3. You can buy a good old plane (pre-WWII). Baileys are very common and can be had for modest $$$. I have an 1888 #5 that has a dead flat sole and is my every day jack. I paid ~$25 for it, and spent an hour and a half fettling it. I avoid buying these on eBay- I go to a dealer or a flea market, bring an engineers try square and check for flatness. I disassemble and make sure all the parts are there and that they fit and work properly (advancing the frog, adjusting the angle and depth of the blade). Sometimes, unscrupulous dealers will put unmatched replacement parts into a plane- so it is easier to check in person. If the blade is in arrears, you can easily buy a replacement blade from LN, LV or elsewhere.If you are going to prepare your own stock by hand, I would advise that you get a #5 to hog off wood to rough square. Then you can use the #7 to joint it into final shape. Chalk to mark the high spots, and a try square and winding sticks to assess the results. I did this for some very large oak planks tat I used in a tabletop and the results were quite good.Good luck,Glaucon

   If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...

1. 
   mikeybabe | Oct 27, 2009 10:14pm | #10

   I really appreciate your feed back. Because I live in Australia a lot of these flea market tools that you are describing I have never had the good fortune to come across. They are just not available here. Plus I don't have the experience or expertise to know if what I am buying is good or not. Hence the interest in just getting on with it and making a start so I can actually start to learn a skill or two.I have taken the liberty of ordering the two videos that you have suggested. I was on line at his web site. Can you believe it is cheaper for me to buy them from the UK than they are to purchase here in Australia. Everything is such a rip off in this country. It is either a rip off or plain "Not Available" Also timbers are through the roof expensive and there are more hardwoods than softer varieties which makes my hand planing a nightmare. So I definitely need to learn to sharpen my tools as this will have to be done frequently working on the stock that I have available to me.I own a few Lie Nielsen planes. They are both small brass ones that I brought brand new because I thought they looked cute ??? Good reason to buy a plane eh ??? One has a fixed fence on it and as a beginner I thought it might help me to get things straight. As it turns out it was more of a useless gimmick. The other one is a smallish block plane that is quite useful and it has an angled blade on it . I tend to use this small block plane as it is comfortable in the hand. The only thing I don't like about it is that you don't have as much control over the depth of cut which can sometimes be a little irritating and the blade is not the easiest to sharpen. I haven't got the hang of the sharpening yet even though I have a variety of water stones I don't find sharpening tools easy so the video may shed more light on this aspect of wood working for me.For now I would be happy just getting anything perfectly square ??? Then I will feel I can move on to the next thing which will be dove tailing. I hate power tools and have a collection of Japanese swords that I love !!! they are a dream to use and I love the look of them and their lightness to hold and accuracy of cut. Plus I feel the SAMURAI coming out in me when I use them ( laughs ) They are fun and keep me happy as a pig in mud for hours. I feel fortunate that I was introduced to them on a shopping venture buy accident ?Thank you again for your very useful comments.Kindest regards to you,Mike

2. 
   noviceneil | Oct 27, 2009 07:11pm | #9

   Mike,

   Rob Cosman also has a video entitled "Rough to Ready" and goes through the steps of taking a board to S4 using a scrub plane, a jointer plane and a smoothing plane..Rob's a good teacher, a little less pedantic than David Charlesworth but not as fun to listen to as Jim K.

   Derek Cohen has a bit on his website In the Workshop on a nice version of the shooting board, a little more complicated than the generic version but probably more useful (I haven't built it yet but it's on my project list)

   Neil

1. 
   mikeybabe | Oct 27, 2009 10:28pm | #11

   Hi Neil,I did spot this video on the web site that I bought the Charles guys video from but I wasn't sure what it would be like because I don't know anyone who owns it. I've probably exhausted my budget for the month buying the two videos that are currently being shipped to me. But if you think it will be of benefit to me in my quest for perfection ( laughs yeah right? ) I'd be happy to give it a go.I'm still getting my head around flattening lumber by hand and getting it all to the same thickness. I'd be happy if I could just do that and realize that it is a skill that not many people have from what I have seen here so far. As I may have mentioned I'm not a power tool fan. And working every thing by hand gives me a great sense of satisfaction. Hard to describe or understand I suppose. I'm just wired to be more contemplative. It must be the GREENIE coming out in me. I'm a bit of a fundamentalist back to basics kind of guy and don't care about the time required to achieve something so long as it is executed well and the outcome satisfying.It's hard to know not having purchased any of these videos before which one is best for me but at least I will be able to compare them.Thanks for your comments and suggestionsMike

1. 
   noviceneil | Oct 28, 2009 12:06am | #12

   Mike,

   See what you think of David's videos first..I have several of his and he is a good teacher but I don't remember a specific video where he starts with a rough cut board and takes it down to full readiness...but that's just my memory (or lack thereof) so if after viewing you're not where you want to be I think Rob's video will answer your need, that and about 50 hours of practice...I use power and hand tools and prefer the latter when possible..you're starting down a rewarding road filled with both pleasure  and frustration (not unlike life) ...it's nice to periodically look back and see how much you've grown... stay with it and use Knots...most everyone here is more than glad to help..just be prepared for controversary if you ever ask for the "best" way to do something.

   Best regards,

   Neil

2. 
   mikeybabe | Oct 28, 2009 12:22am | #13

   Thank you Neil,Will do. Yes I can see that 50 hours coming thick and fast but hey I've got a life time haven't I so what's the rush . . .It will take me a year to flatten my stanley 7 plane. So I'm getting good at correcting other people's mistakes and imperfections. Just about everything I pick up with the exception of my jap saws has flaws.Thanks for your advice and I will take it if Charles doesn't give me joy.Kind Regards,Mike

3. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Oct 28, 2009 06:20am | #15

   mike,

   Just a thought but if you only need small pieces maybe you might know of a place that has lots of pallets?  Maybe some business that imports from the U.S.?  They might be made of some of our domestic woods.

   I should think you could at least find some practice wood, pretty cheap too.  Just an idea for ye.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

4. 
   mikeybabe | Oct 28, 2009 11:24am | #16

   Yes great idea. I'll have to scab about and see what I can findRegards,Mike

5. 
   Wingdoctor | Oct 28, 2009 04:34pm | #17

   A fellow "Knot" head that is in Australia also is Derek Cohen. He has an informative website, to me at least, at http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ .

   You might want to take a look at some of Derek's articles about woodworking and tool sharpening and refinement.

   If you want to drool over some hand plane works of art, Philip Marcou, in NZ, has an informative website. I have been drooling over his planes for years now.

   Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan

6. 
   mikeybabe | Oct 29, 2009 12:13am | #19

   The planes you drool over are incredible ! But out of my price range. It is nice to have a dream though !I had a look at Dereks site and I found his information very good. Too bad he is in Perth and I'm in sydney. There again he appears to spend a lot of money on tools. I already have waterstones. So I might stick to the traditional sharpening as I can't afford grinders and sanders and all the bells and whistles and would like to start simply with a stone a chisel and the planes I have already spent my money on without having to invest further, I think I will try and make a start with what I have already purchase. The Charles guys videos are on the way so I suppose I am about to discover the flaws in the technique when I start using them.I like the sound of Dereks STROP method. I can buy one of those as they are minimal cost and the aim of it all is to just start doing something and get going.I have appreciated all of the input and help from this forum and am very grateful that I came here. Thank you everyone for your helpMike

3. 
   troys | Oct 27, 2009 06:24am | #5

   You might check out the series of videos by the late Jim Kingshott I think his videos has some of the best explanations of how to use hand tools and how they work. Tools for working woods has them on DVD http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com.

   Good luck

   Troy

4. 
   Lataxe | Oct 27, 2009 12:36pm | #7

   M,

   The links in this post might help:

   http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=46478.54

   Here is the link to David Charlesworth site, where you will get details of what topics are covered by which of his DVDs and books.  I can't speak for the DVDs, never having seen them, but his books are very clear, detailed and pedantic only in the sense that he is very explicit about how to do things.

   http://www.davidcharlesworth.co.uk/shopdisplayproducts.asp

   Lataxe

5. 
   Lapun | Oct 28, 2009 05:15pm | #18

   Hi, Mike.
   You are most welcome to the Knots forum. You have made a good start by simply stating where you are at, and what you want to do. As you have already seen, there are quite a few guys who are prepared to give advice. I am another.

   There is one small difference, I live in Brisbane, and although you won't want to just 'drop in for a chat every other day', you might like to use the phone to help you through a rough patch on your quest.

   I share your attitude to manual bench tool use, so I applaud your determination to prep ypur timber using the traditional methods.You will not be disappointed. But keep that jarrah for the day when you are over the hump of the learning curve - use packing case timber to get there.

   We can worry about phone numbers if the idea appeals to you.

   Eric.

1. 
   mikeybabe | Oct 29, 2009 12:17am | #20

   Hi Eric,I would absolutely love thatNow how do we go about that without the entire world viewing our personal details ?Mike

   Edited 10/28/2009 5:18 pm ET by mikeybabe

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Oct 29, 2009 12:35am | #21

   mike,

   If you click on Lapun's name in the message header it will bring up a pop up window.  If Lapun has enabled email in his profile you can click on the email link in the profile and send  a message to him via Knots. 

   It will use the email address you provided when you signed up for Knots.

   Easy peasy,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   Lapun | Oct 29, 2009 12:38am | #22

   Knotsmembers are always helpful - thanks.My response, confirming your suggestion, is already dispatched.Lapun.

2. 
   mikeybabe | Oct 29, 2009 12:41am | #23

   Thank you Bob very kind of you appreciate itMike

6. 
   derekcohen | Nov 03, 2009 09:21am | #24

   48476.1

   Can you tell me where I can go to find detailed instructions on how to flatten a piece of rough sawn warped timber using only hand tools.

   Hi Mike

   I'm coming on board a little late, and I have not ploughed through all the replies to date, so this may be a repeat...

   Here is an pictorial article I wrote that may help. I did have the assistance of a bandsaw for resawing, but then I dare anyone to seriously resaw thick She-oak with a handsaw! :)

   Preparing a board without a thicknesser-planer-jointer

   View Image

   Regards from Perth

   Derek