Just watched Dirty Jobs on the tube. They showed the harvesting of OLD growth timbers from the bottom of Lake Superior. (used a piece or two…beautiful stuff) Cut a Cheery log into veneer, (I’m cool with that) Then laminated it to PARTICLE BOARD, STAINED, REPEAT STAINED, it, and made office furniture out of it!!!! As a furniture maker I’m OUTRAGED, INCENSED AND ACRIMONIOUS…. How the h-ll can they do that too such a beautiful and rare resource??? Rant over, I’m cool now…peace and love….Jimmy
Edited 4/1/2006 10:37 pm ET by Jimmy
Replies
It's all about money. The more veneer, the more money. The cheaper the substrate, the more money. The cheaper they build it, the more money. I could puke, but ain't that America; constantly confusing quantity with quality?
I make some furniture too, and I don't see why this would be so upsetting. Veneering is a great way to maximize the amount of useable (i.e. pretty) wood from a limited resource.
I would have used MDF, but particle board is a stable base material. Furniture makers have been coloring wood with stains, dyes, and even (shudder - lol) paint forever, so why is staining "wrong"? Is office furniture somehow a lower form of furniture?
The cost of that old growth lumber reflects the cost of recovery (and that ain't cheap) so I don't think much of it will be wasted. If it can't be used for real, useful, furniture, it might as well stay in the lake - lol.
One of the other uses for the old-growth lumber was musical instruments and they haven't had access to lumber of this kind for a long time. It really makes a difference in tone. Some could also be used for repairing vintage instruments with wood of similar age.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
There was an episode on the History channel "little ice age: big chill" and in one section, they discuused a theory that the wood used by Straivarius had been grown during an exceptionally cold period causing tighter than normal rings in an area with poor soild and slower growing trees anyway, so that that wood had exceptionally fine growth rings. The research was not conclusive, but did show one of the possibilities for the exceptional sound they make.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Rick,
There was another TV show; I think on PBS; where this exceptionally gifted violin maker was in the trenches during WWI; to pass the time he made violins from ammunition crates and for strings I think he used horse gut; they say the sound produced was not quite Stradivarius but was of superb quality
The rings being closer together completely changes the resonant characteristics of the piece and allows the back and front to be thinner with a higher resonant frequency, which makes for a louder, clearer sound. Instruments made form wood with rings that are farther apart have a muddier sound and the notes aren't nearly as distinct. Attack and decay suffer, too.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Veneering is a responsible way to use a rare and expensive resource. As for office furniture, there's good money to be made from companies that are more concerned about what it looks like rather than what it costs. Sure, they may not care about how something is made, but the reality is that the people that do are a very small minority (and mostly found in forums like this).
There was another company up there that was doing the same thing with the old logs but they were sawing it into dimensioned lumber. I think I still have their price list, so I'll see if the company still exists. They had some beautiful maples, oak, birch, I think hickory and others. Gorgeous grain and they weren't whoring it out just so they could make a bunch of money.
I saw the episode and share your pain. But the guy doing the milling stated pretty clearly that his interest ended with the milling of the logs. His concern is getting the most money per viewable inch from those logs. Veneer is his best method. You can bet that if I had a mill and resources to recover old logs like those that I would be milling full dimension boards out of them and charging top dollar and then some for it (if you could get me to part with it).
The skids they showed them pushing into the kiln were boards, not veneer, so not all of it is stuck to the cheapest substrate known. Sort of an oxymoron to me.
Andy
"It seemed like a good idea at the time"
As said in my original post I have no problem with veenering the logs....but staining old growth cheery?? I also can think of many better products to make with old growth timbers than partical board office furniture...I can get that at Ikea. Jimmy.
I know what you mean, and I agree totally. I saw that episode. When they showed the stacks of loose veneer I started drooling! I applauded the fact that they were maximizing the resource by turning it into veneer, but when they slathered that dark bargain bucket stain on it, I Hollered at the TV so loud I woke up the baby. They used a DARK mahogany stain, that completely erased the subtle variations and beautiful colors in the wood, gained from 100 years underwater. By the time they finished, it looked no different from Home Depot Plywood!
That's what happens when your market is rich ba**tards who want to say they have a reclaimed wood desk, but have no knowledge of wood, or good taste.
Absolutely Disgusting.
Edited 4/3/2006 1:25 pm by lumberhoarder
I would have liked to have seen that episode. I live in between Lake Michigan and Lake Superior in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and I too would like had a problem with them making cheaply construted office furniture with it then staining to look like another wood species.
Could you see the color of the cherry very well on the screen?
The reason I ask is I live very near where there was an old couperage mill. This mill had a pond (small lake) and for what ever reason they stored logs in this pond.
On of the now land owners discovered all these logs on the bottom of the pond and started harvesting them through the ice in the winter.
These logs were high quality logs but when they were sawed into lumber the color was very bland and even with an oil and or varnish they still did not look very good. This may have been the reason for staining the veneer you are speaking of.
Garry
http://www.superwoodworks.com
Logs used were harvested from the bottom of Lake Superior. Very cold water preserved them perfectly. Seem to remember these logs are at least one hundred years old. Were lost/sunk while being transported to the sawmill. I would guess that logs harvested from the bottom of a pond were subject to much different conditions than the logs out of Superior. Color of the flitches was great, as was the grain...Jimmy.
Edited 4/4/2006 4:10 pm ET by Jimmy
The use of veneer/MDF (they called it particle board but my guess is it was MDF) is laudable. Both methods are a fine way to stretch the use of limited natural resources further. Would you rather trash the sawdust (MDF) and have the beautiful old growth cherry log make one desk or 20?
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On the other hand, the very dark stain was a crime! Why use the old growth cherry and then ‘paint’ it with such a dark finish. Different strokes for different folks, I guess…
No one is saying that veneering the logs is a bad idea. Quite the opposite really. I have a problem with using this rare and beautiful resource on Ikea look alike office furniture. Got plenty of new timbers around for that. Imagine the figure on old growth qsawn white oak....don't waste it on cheap knock offs....Jimmy
Why not?
Down in the bottom of the lake.. Nobody saw it.. The tree was thinkin' Geeee. they cut me down and NOBODY saw how Pretty I was..
Sort of like the OLD redwoods.. I think WHY! would anybody do that?? Beyond me, BUT I use wood too!...
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