Thoughts on band saw guides upgrade kits?
jlorenzo19
| Posted in General Discussion on
Been meaning to buy one of a online site and I am just wondering if this will a good investment. Any thoughts would help!
Replies
Are you happy with what you have on your current band saw and does the saw work reasonably well as is? If yes, I’d be inclined to leave the saw as is.
In my experience it is 10x more important to get your bandsaw set up properly with the blade tracking true and the table parallel to the blade, and the stock guides cleaned, lubed and set precisely to the blade in use than it is to put upgrade guides in place. After I took the time to do this properly I was able to rip hundreds of feet of 12/4 rock maple on my Jet 18" bandsaw like I was cutting butter. BTW, I was also using a fairly fresh blade. A dull blade (or the wrong blade) can cause all sorts of problems.
If your current guides are worn, rusted, sticky or otherwise compromised to the point that you cannot make them work properly, then yes, upgrade away!
I think bandsaw guide upgrades are a cash cow for the manufacturers and mostly just a waste of money/gimmick.
Obviously you need guides. But how much difference are there between guides? They keep the blade from wallowing around so it seems to me that the more contact area with the blade the better job it is going to do hold the blade.
A bearing is going to have an area or roughly .001" x the width of the bearing.
Just for simplicity lets say you have a 1/2" of blade contacting the bearing. That is a surface area of .0005"sq inches touching the bearings.
A 1/2 x1/2" square block would have a surface area of .25 square inches
A 3/8" x 3/8" square block would have a surface area of .141 square inches
Seems to me bearings would be a downgrade not an upgrade. If you look at large bandsaw they typically have guides with large blocks of hardened steel. Seems to me that if you want to upgrade you would go with blocks instead of bearings. Except for the rear thrust bearing of course.
Stay with the blocks. 1. They don't freeze up like bearings can and 2. they are easier to set-up. I upgraded my old Delta to bearings thinking I was bringing it into the modern age. After a few weeks I changed back to the old block system using cool blocks. "More better" 😁
I converted one from bearings to blocks. Never was happy with bearings.
My saws both came with ceramic guides and I love them. My old saw had bearings, and it was awful.
Where do you order the blocks for my 16” Delta saw? Do I need adapter kit?
Supposedly the Harvey bandsaws have a ceramic guide option but I haven't been able to find them. Their site sucks. For all you Stumpy Nubs fans out there you have to buy good bearings, don't buy the cheap ones.
I switched from rub blocks to bearings and I am sorry I did. Rub blocks are easy to adjust and have more surface area in contact with the blade. Stick with rub blocks.
Lots of replies above mention the surface area of rub blocks is "better", but that may heat the blade up faster (more friction area, and it's static), as opposed to a ".0005" area (made of metal, a heat conductor, which rolls with the blade (less friction)). So your blade may degrade/lose temper quicker with friction blocks.
But does anyone know that for sure? I don't, and for the record I'm still using friction blocks myself. Just a couple random observations from a bored Mech Eng....
Steel blocks can add heat, but because the blade is so long the heat dissipates so fast. Cool blocks were designed to cut down on heat. Ceramic guides offer a smaller area than steel or phenolic, but are great for not heating up.
But really, heat isn't a big deal. But bearing are just super prone to failure.
All other things equal, heat will be generated by friction and pressure. The band saw operator will apply the same force regardless if the guides are bearings, small or large blocks. The side bearings will turn and offer almost no resistance, they are unlikely to generate heat, the rub blocks made of ceramic are likely to offer les friction, one would need to check the friction coefficient table but if I imagine an incline made of ceramic and tilt it until a steel block start to slide, I think the ceramic incline will be more slippery than a steel one. But since it is pressure and friction that generates heat, the large area block will see far less pressure due to the same force being applied over a larger area, my guess is that the larger block will generate less heat than the smaller one, hence they are called cool blocks.
Bandsaw manufacturers must think bearing guides are superior, being that is what comes with new equipment.
Superior or cheaper ?
Mine came with ceramic guides...
I see Laguna has them on theirs.
I have à Laguna with ceramic guide inserts, they lasted 7 years with a lot of abuse and are now due. The side guides started parting away from day one, they were not well glued in place, I replaced them with lignum vitae inserts. The rear round guides were good until I broke a wide thick resaw blade in a log and it smashed the ceramic in pieces. I will simply replace them and go for the next 7 years.
So please someone answer this. I have a Delta bandsaw with bearing. Where do I buy the blocks and do I need some kind of adapter to hold the blocks in place
I’d like to know how the Carter bearing guides compare with blocks.
Carter has replacement guides that seem to be standard designs. They have dozens of types, and all seem to be bearing based.
I got one of their Stabilizers, which is a bit different. It's only for 1/8 to 3/16 blades. There is no lower guide -- just back off the stock lower guide so there's no contact. This replaces the upper. When I got my 18" Laguna for resawing, I put this on my 14" for cutting tight curves. I like it a lot.
https://carterproducts.com/band-saw-products/band-saw-stabilizer
Thanks for the info. They probably have ones for Harvey if needed.
Shangrila will have to search ebay for bracket guide assemblies using his model number I presume.
Thank you for the info
Thank you all for your wonderful insights.
I am actually looking at upgrade guide kits off of sawblade.com but I just want to make sure this will be a great fit and if it'll be a worthy investment.
I hear all the comments about staying with cooling blocks that come with most bandsaws. They provide them because they are cheaper. I have a 1991 Delta 14” bandsaw and I can cut a resaw strip as accurate as can be all the way down to a 1/16”. No, I would not be able to do that with my stock guides and cooling blocks. I attended a class once at Woodcraft taught by Alex Snodgrass and he showed us how to properly set up a bandsaw. He was using Carter guides. So, behold, my once thought of junk bandsaw that couldn’t cut a straight line now cuts 1/16” veneer strips for custom boxes. I absolutely would not have anything else on my vintage bandsaw. But, that is what works for my shop needs, yours may be different.
Some saws just stink. I fussed around with a vintage saw for years. Did every tuneup, adjustment, everything. It couldn't resaw for crap. I finally got a Laguna 14/12 and started cutting veneer straight out of the box. Night and day.