Anyone out there with combo machines and experience they would like to share?
I am especially interested in felder machines.
What’s it like to work everyday with these machines as opposed to separate American-style machines? I really like the idea of a sliding tablesaw AND shaper. Seems like once one had worked with this setup it might be hard to go back.
Vincent
Replies
Vincent, an industrial standard combination machine such as SCM Invincible Mini 30, Pinheiro , Steton and similar is tremendous. These are powerful, space saving , versatile and multi motored so that there is no hassle changing functions. Often more than one person can be on the same machine, but this would be useful only in a small production shop. I have used the Mini 30 (Not to be confused with Mini Max), and would far rather have this than have free standing machines of the Delta type. The only slight disadvantage that comes to mind is that the jointer tables will be on the shortish side
The Felder is not as heavy as these, but all the same seems to have a lot of precision machine in one place.
I am assuming that you talk of multi combos, not just saw and planers.
Yes Philip,I was referring to the full 5 function combo machines (saw, shaper, jointer, planer, horizontal mortiser) Here in the US we have Mini Max, Felder, Robland/Laguna, Robjek, Knapp... to name a few. When Fine WW did a test, these were the main contenders. I'll do a search for the brands you mentioned; they're all new names to me. I really plan to do most of my woodworking solo, so it isn't a problem that most of these machines allow only one function at a time. I currently have a shop at home, so the size of the combo machines is a big plus: I have room for a smaller sliding table, but I don't think I'll ever need the really sliders or three phase power. thanks for your thoughts,Vincent
Six months ago I purchased a MiniMax FS 30, combo jointer/planer. (I know you are looking for a full-capability machine.) I found it very helpful to view, several times, the demo videos available from the various manufacturers, It is amazing how quality of design and manufacture are visible in something as 'remote' as a video.P.S. I am very happy with my FS 30.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Vincent, I own a Felder Combo 700 series (Saw, Shaper, Planer) for almost 10 years. I am very happy, I would be even happier, if I had a newer model. But even this is very accurate, reliable and practical.
I would chose again a 2m sliding table, high power motors (3 Phases) and the automatic changeover from star to triangle(?) to use heavier tools on the shaper. This is also good for the 41cm planer. I consider 41 cm good and enough.
The combo generally is very space saving but you have to plan your work carefully because if you change to a different machine you loose in general your adjustments. This is particularly time consuming for the shaper, although the fence is quite reproducible once removed.
I would chose the electric change of height of the thickness planer, because the changeover from /to jointer is boring. The digital height indicator is not very important, the indicator in the cranking wheel is quite accurate.
I have also a Felder FD 250 horizontal boring machine, but separately.
If I had enough, i.e. much more space, I would go for all separate machines. But all together, the machines and the shop would also be much more expensive.
There are many advantages of the Felder over the others, I find. But this is another story.
So much for today
Qara
I would be interested to hear why you find the felder machine to be better than the others. (btw, which others?)Thanks for the insightvincent
Vincent,
here I have a few arguments for Felder 700 series. The eqivalent class for the Minimax (SCM group, but not SCM class) is the Felder Hammer machine, apart from general quality arguments.
The Felder 700 has much more studier and heavier and therefore more accurate working, sawing, shaping and planing units. The saw cerf in the table is narrower because the saw maintains the sawing distance on the fence from 0 to 90 degrees. The sliding table rests on cylindrical rollers, not on spheres, which are much stronger. Good sliding tables are safer to work with.
The Felder fences are heavier, again more accurate and easier to use. There is a system of exchangable shaper spindles, including a high speed spindle for the use of router bits.
The fence on the saw is guided by steel rods for the saw/shaper machine. For the saw/shaper/planer/jointer it is guided by the so called F-guiding system whitch I like less than the other. But this system has also a few advantages, It is used also in the rear of the machine, to fix accessories as table extensions, transport systems and others. In front there is however no other way around, exept a separate planer/jointer..
Robland went broke as did Scheppach, Knapp changed owner half a dozen times in the last 10 years and was not further improved technically.
There are many more arguments, but I have not touched upon the price.
There remains the argument, combo machines require more setup time going from one machine to the other, but less space. A separate jointer/planer is in between.
Qara
Thanks for your opinion, this will really help me out.
I guess the next step would be to see a machine in person.
I saw on Felder's web site that they have a new showroom in chicago opening. This would make a nice day trip for me from here in indiana. thanks,Vincent
Do you mean to say that the Felder is safer because of the design of the slider bearings?
Sublime...
I believe it is safer to jamming with all the consequences.
Qara
Philip Marcou has HIS agenda as we all do BUT I think he 'knows his stuff'. I could be wrong but I'm hardly ever wrong!
I've been cruising ebay and craigs list for along time in anticipation of my new "shop." It will be of course just the basement of my new house but now that I think of it a multi-machine might just be the ticket. Has anyone ever purchased one used? I imagine you would have to spend an entire day going over it for damage/misuse before you buy. I'll definitely be watching this thread...
"Basement" plus "MultiMachine" sounds like a mover's nightmare. (unless it's a walkout.)Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
It has a full garage door, with a sloping driveway leading down to it.This was a real blessing: it makes the shop so much more functional.vincent
That's an ideal setup. I've always thought a walk-out basement (lower level) was a great idea. I used to try to squirrel long pieces into my shop though a small basement window - and plywood - that was another story; down the stairs..P.S. I hope combo machines have "brakes" for the down-slope. Heh! Heh!Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Edited 10/22/2007 4:48 pm ET by Jfrostjr
My Basement is a walk out with a steel beam running the length (it supports the weight of two bedrooms and a bath) to help me move heavy things like say a new christmas Mini. I planned it that way, but it's not built yet! :)
I suspect you will be sitting by the chimney on Christmas eve. I have a 6 month old MiniMax FS30. I love it. The jointer table looks like a carrier deck.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
jointer table looks like a carrier deck..Sure hope you not doing a stick when that BIG elevator comes up!
That WOULD be scary.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Vincent:
I have had a Felder C740P for about 12 months. I was attracted to the combination machine because I have a very small shop. Also, I like the safety that comes from a "Euro-Slider". Opinions on this vary but I will argue that it is much safer to use because of the slider, braking mechanisms, overhead dust and guard and integrated riving knife that follows the blade.
I have had very little problem with change overs or returning to a previous set-up, but it really helps if you do not have to go back to do one more piece. You should also consider how the machine will work with your dust collection, because when you change functions, you also have to change the dust collection. It's not hard, but you need a plan that will work for you.
You get very accurate cuts and I have yet to experience any snipe. I have the medium length slider so I can rip 7 1/2 feet, just shy of a full sheet of ply. I do the cross-cut first.
The Felders sold here will accept dado blades, but these saws are not at their best when doing cuts rabbets. It is easier to use the shaper with a router spindle.
I don't thing you can go too far wrong with a Felder combo.
Regards,
Hastings
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