Thoughts on Hot Hide Glue after Day 1
I finally bought some pearl hide glue to give it a try. Previously, I’ve been using PVA and liquid hide glue mostly. I mixed it with water and let it sit to dissolve. After about an hour sitting on the workbench and not a lot happening, I put it in the hot water and that accelerated the process. I played with the variable heat setting until I got it to a nice consistency – like thin maple syrup, as someone wrote. I did a couple tests and a bit of actual work and these are my thoughts after day one.
1. It stinks. As in, it smells. I didn’t let it get to boiling, and I hope I hadn’t cooked it.
2. It sets up really, really fast. There is no way I could use this glue for assembly without pre-heating all my wood or adding urea or thinning it a bit more. I may have been a bit impatient in letting it heat up to get to a thin-enough consistency. (I’m using 260 bloom strength glue, which equals fast cure and high strength – maybe more than needed?).
3. An acid swab works well. I pushed the bristles a bit into the handle to leave less exposed. The brush served well to mix and apply the glue.
4. It is strong, and rubbed joints work well.
5. It takes patience (or better planning) to prepare and get heated to the right temperature/viscosity. I suppose that you could say that the 5-10 minutes to re-heat the glue is worth it if you don’t have to wait 1 hour or longer for the glue to dry. Is it a problem to leave the glue pot on all day? I’ve been unplugging it between uses and keeping the lid on.
Replies
Chris,
I'd say your observations are spot on. Unless I'm doing something that needs to be authentic, or easily repairable (like on musical instruments) I don't have much patience for the fuss of hide glue. So I've got some lying around for that occasion when it's called for, but it isn't often. And BTW, you can leave the pot on all day. Traditionally, it was the apprentice's job to get it ready each morning and keep the pot at the right temperature all day. You could always get yourself an apprentice.
Chris,
Hide glue does have a distink-tive aroma. Over the years, I've come not to mind it. What really smells is when it goes bad after sitting at room temp for a few days. Whew! Now, that will bring the buzzards right into the shop :-)
I've been using #135 grade glue from Bjorn Industries (advertise in FWW magazine), which is what he recommended to me for repair work which often needs a little more open time to get things aligned before clamping. It seems plenty strong to me.
When I'm using hide glue, I keep the pot hot all day, adding more water as it thickens up. Heating it daily (just for a little while), even when you aren't planning on using it, keeps it from spoiling. Others keep unused glue in the fridge.
Ray
Thanks for your observations, Chris. You've saved me the trouble of trying it myself. ;-)
Chris
You bring back many memories for me, none of them good. I was responsible for the hide glue as an apprentice in my fathers cabinet making shop in the 50's. I certainly remember the stink, all the burns, and the yellings(glue not to 'spec'). Glue was heated in a double pot over a primus (parrafin stove) and required me to start far earlier than anyone else.
Love the later cold glues.
wot
Chris:
The articles I've found recommend 192 gram strength glue, and most noted that stronger glue will gel faster. Glue that was mixed a week ago seems to gel much faster than fresh glue. I expect that a thicker viscosity (I mix by weight 2 water to 1 granules) also will gel faster.
If you want to leave the heater on for an extended period, you'll have to be much more proficient than I am at judging when to add water and how much to return to the 2:1 viscosity. That's why I mix small quantities, and don't keep unused glue more than a week (it seems to become thicker over time even if cold).
Having the workshop at an ambient temperature of 75 deg F instead of 70 seems to significantly slow gelling, at least so that I can apply the hot hide glue to both edges and bring them together before gelling begins.
I've found overlooked hide glue residue much much less noticeable than white/yellow glue after applilcation of boiled linseed oil or water based aniline dyes. After spraying water borne finish, the glue line swells but shrinks back down after an hour.
Don & all,
After using the
Don & all,
After using the 260-bloom strength glue and coping with it's equally short working time, I got wondering. Most of the glues we use are stronger than the wood itself. Is hide glue one of these? If so, what bloom strength is closest to the strength of wood? IF 190 bloom strength is about as strong as wood, why go stronger?
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