Replies

1. 
   Splintie | Aug 22, 2002 12:19pm | #1

   You can get pastes, powders and liquids for tinting epoxy, and i've used small quantities of oil paint in it without adverse curing effect, but only in very small areas. You stick FG insulation in it to make it hold its shape when you stuff the crack.

   Will it work? Sure. But by then, you'll have incurred the wrath of the Table Gods and some of the lesser Juniper Entities who will plague you with problems when you try pouring all that plastic on such a resinous wood. And the avocado refrigerator you thought you'd gotten rid of will reappear on your deck, like magic.

   Better play it safe, throw a Nakashima butterfly across that crack, and finish it with bunch of tung oil.

   Back in the '70's, i had a job pouring plastic on slabs for tables--we used to buy epoxy in 55-gal drums. It's kind of a dated 'look' these days, however; a juniper slab deserves better IMO. If you really need a smooth top, you might consider a piece of glass cut to the shape to lay over the wood. 

1. 
   theRev | Aug 22, 2002 03:19pm | #2

   Splintie,

   Thanks for the link. I was wondering, tho, after looking at that table, what you think of that butterfly? It's placed on a knot rather than "in the field" where it would be used to check a split from working its way a bit wider. And note that there is still a sizable crack in the knot. Makes me wonder if ol' George didn't have a great board cursed with a knot with a huge cross shaped split in it. "Ahah, I'll put a butterfly in the larger split and make everyone think this is here for structural reasons." Thus, obviously drawing your attention to the weak spot of the board, only to mesmerize your eye with the butterfly. It works, quite well.

   I think you are on the right track suggesting butterflies for the juniper slab, but having to place them across the splits still leaves some filling (maybe). George seems to have gotten away without filling and it looks fine.

   avacado refrigerators...he he he.

   Scott

1. 
   Splintie | Aug 23, 2002 05:12am | #4

   Ok, i have to admit i don't get why the flap over Nakashima, but as names go for dropping, it's a purty one, no? I just can't stomach his choice of legs most of the time, but i love the butterfly gimmick, even if used only for ornament. I was actually imagining chiseling that knot into submission...ow.

2. 
   RANGERP75R | Aug 23, 2002 07:24pm | #6

   SPLINTIE:

      I used to have a job back in 70's pouring plastic on table slabs, we bought 55 gal drums of epoxy,etc. etc.

      Need your insight, please. I want your opinion of will apoxy work as a finish for oak bed flooring in a Concourse Show Truck. I know it will hold up to UV rays well. Got the moisture protection to boot. Question, is there a way I can either use it to coat all the floor planks and let the natural wood show through? If not, you were advising on tinting epoxy. Could it be tinted in that quantity to cover that much square footage;or can it be stained over after application to produce an attractive finish. I suppose I should have created a new thread but I'm looking for a few good women and men that have used expoxy and can give me an opionion based on actual experience with it.

      I know you're a very busy person; but if you have the time,your insight and opinion would be highly recieved and appreciated! If you have the time....

   Thanks to you and Rev for the info already digested..

   Sarge..john

1. 
   Trees2dust | Aug 24, 2002 12:26am | #7

   Hello Sarge,

   One of many side trips that the woodworking journey has taken me is kayak building.  I finally dismantled my "temporary" 18-foot kayak building bench, 5 kayaks and several years after building my first one. Kayak builders address those issues that you presented all the time- epoxy on oak, uv protection, tinting, etc.  You might try posting a general question on one of the kayak building forums.  http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-bin/Building/index.cgi is one of the popular ones.

   This is what I would do for your application: Rub down with acetone (oak has oils that could prevent the epoxy from adhering).  Stain with a water-based stain.  Apply epoxy, with appropriate safety gear, using a short-bristled roller, the kind sold for rolling out adhesives.  Go over any bubbles with a foam-tipped brush.  Re-coat with epoxy as soon as the previous coat has set up.  Don't wait more that 12 hours or so, otherwise you get amine blush on the surface.  Repeat the re-coating as needed.  Let the last coat fully cure- could be up to 2 weeks depending on temp & humidity- then wash off the amine blush, sand with 80 grit to scuff the surface, then varnish (Interlux marine varnish is my favortie), recoating until you're sick of it. 

   The varnish is needed for UV protection.  Without it the epoxy will breakdown and turn dull under the sun.  Some epoxy manufacturers with websites- System Three, West System, Raka, MAS- check these out.  All these are good, with slightly different characteristics. System Three used to send out a sample kit with literature for $10; they may still do it.

   After reading all about epoxy, you may decide that it's more trouble than it's worth for your application.  And be careful that you don't get drawn into boat building like I did.

   Rick, recovered kayak building addict

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Aug 24, 2002 02:09am | #8

   Rick:

      Thanks for the interest and response. I just got a  post from Alan who had mentioned apoxy (another post) as he uses often professionally. Your information concurs with his. He mentioned to be careful with spar and varnish as some can be decieving as far as UV rays. Thanks for the personal recommendation on brand. I will still wait for answer Splintie as she also has used this professionally. She might have something to add. I just want the most protective and attractive finish possible as this is going on a show truck being prepared for the company I work part time for. It will be viewed by thousands by the end of next show season. I don't mind the trouble as I have been an amateur for 30 yrs. ( by choice ) an I have the luxury of taking my time. I also am being paid to do so in this particular case. I take a lot of personal pride in what I do, and won't ever make the sacrifice of quality for quantity anyway.

      Kayaks huh! I attempted to make one by welding old Ga. license plates together a while back. It did not work out as I had planned. I do think I set a worlds diving record for amount of time it took to get to the bottom though. You know, I bet if I had epoxied it, things would have turned out different. Why didn't I have all this infromation back then.

   EXTREME THANKS and wish a full recovery for the addiction...

   Sarge..john.

2. 
   Elcoholic | Aug 24, 2002 02:36am | #9

   Sarge,

   Now you got me!  Show truck?  Tell me more.  I'm a gearhead too.  I drive a semi-custom '65 El Camino (That's where my handle comes from).  It's black and chrome, med grey leather and tweed on the inside, Linex'd bed, dropped 2" on custom offset 16" Boyd billets w/ 245/45 fronts and 255/55 rears (all inside with an 1/8" to spare) front disc's, de-badged except for the engine badges & rear qtr script w/ a frenched power antenna in R/R qtr panel.  Mild (for now) sweet running 283 w/ 4bbl Edlebrock on factory alum manifold & MSD ignition w/ a TH350.  When either croaks I'm going to a 383 Alum head Stroker w/ a 700R4 - I just need an excuse :).  BTW it's a daily driver. 

   Tell me about your truck.  If you're talking a classic 50's bed with planks and rails think on this.  A concours truck is probably going to be a trailer queen most of the time anyway, so weather and UV won't be a big deal.  I've seen some glassed beds and they usually crack and/or yellow.  I like to see some contrast and texture in the bed to really set-off the bed paint.  Picture brushed stainless rails and oiled oak planks.  If you want the gloss w/o the plastic coating - a buddy of mine with a pair of 99 point woody's and #3 on the way shoots them with automotive clear and they look bitchen.  You should see his (1 of 6) Buick Roadmaster Woody.  Candy emerald green and maple.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Aug 24, 2002 04:35am | #11

   John:

      And you're giving me a rough time about $1 on the lotto. (just posted to Ron T. that post). Now you want information on classics? heh.. Good thing I'm such a nice guy! OK , I'll tell you what I know as of this moment (I'm on vacation this week and get full scoop latter).

      I work part time (semi-retired recently-6 hrs Mon-Fri) for a company here in Atlanta called Year One, Inc. Do it mostly for the free coffee and camaderie with customers all over the world.They are a source for 60's-mid 70's classic car parts since 81. We compete directly with Classic Ind. as I'm sure you've heard of.  We carry parts all GM A bodies and several others. Separate catalogs for each of currently 13 car lines and website that we recently added 78-87 GM G body. Car lines as follows: 64-72 Chevelle which is you, GTO, Cutlass and Skylark-GS.. Also Nova 64-72, 67-current Camaro, 67-current Firebird, 59-72 Impala, 66-74 Mopar B-E body, 66-74 Mopar A body, 67-87 GMC-Chevy Truck, 79-current Mustang and a catalog currently in our graphics dept. on 64 1/2-73 Mustang.

      The truck is being prepared by a friend of mine that has been doing show restoration for years. He also works there, We're pretty much in-house and have a traveling show team that makes mainly east-coast major car shows. I think this one is a 70's but will have to confirm. Pretty much tell you he'll use 8 coats of paint. The last truck I saw him do (personal truck) was 8 coats candy-apple red. It won 37 of 39 shows best paint job. He's articulate and it shows. Truck will be a frame-up down to correct letters stamped on hose clamps and OEM plug wires as required concours. You know all this. He and a few others just did a modified 69 Camaro that appeared a month or so ago on one of the car mags (I just tried to call him ,but not home as Fri, nite). I will find out more as I'll be back in-house Mon. Unless he is working off-site as he has a fabulous shop for restoration at home.

      If you would like a free catalog, call me PCT between 10 AM and 3 PM. When you get prompt for; if you know your parties extention, dial 0 for switchboard. Ask if Sarge is there (they'll know who you're talking about-we have many generals but just one Sarge. The name is John but we have many. That's where the nickname comes from with a little co-ordination from 75th Ranger Reg. VN 66-69. Everyone with duplicate name is given a nickname for ID). I'll UPS you one. If you need any technical assistence dial x-172 after prompt as we have a tech-support staff that has most GM original manuals and factory assembly manuals. Keep in mind we are open 24 hours a day Mon.-Fri. and Sat 6 Am-2 PM PCT 9 AM-2 PM Sun. We get tween 2500 and 3500 calls a day so there is usually a wait.

      We mainly deal with OEM as it came down the assembly line on older cars but have gotten into some modified and high performance within last year. Also, the coverage on your 65 ELCO is limited because of early year. Coverage on 68-72 is more vast as manufactures have to sink a lot ot capitol in dies and molds and they look at numbers of what's still on the road. If they feel that the numbers don't support re-covering capital investment to set up production and a profit down the road they will tell our R&D boys and girls Nope! That's why on your year model parts are difficult to come by. It's just a numbers game as any other business.

      Give me a call if you wish for the cat and we can discuss. I won't be able to talk for long as lengthy calls are monitored. When I had my own company I could; but they are a business and have to pay the light bills. I'll probaly continue there as long as the coffee is free. Love the camaderie with the customers. Now, if they cut out the free coffee, I'm retired!! heh.heh..

   Have a good weekend and good luck with the search..Grin>

   Sarge..john t

2. 
   RANGERP75R | Aug 24, 2002 04:57am | #12

   John:

      Forgot something didn't I. Must have been thinking about where I was going to spend all that lotto money.he..

      1-800-YEARONE   http://www.yearone.com

      I used to ride in some of those Ca. woody's when they were a dime a dozen. I sold a AC-Shelby Cobra in 72' for $4400. It was just a 289 hi-po, not the 427. Wish I had that one back to. As we get older we get wiser I guess.

   The dumb ole country boy from Ga.

   Sarge..john

1. 
   Elcoholic | Aug 26, 2002 06:24pm | #14

   Small world!  I've talked to Year1 on several occaisions when searching for the holy grail du jour.  I am lucky to be surrounded by 4 'A' body parts sources.  OPG is 10 minutes, Danchuck 15, Muscle Factory 25 and True Connections 35.  True Connections has lots of good used parts.  If it's a mission of consequence ($$) I'll go to Muscle Factory, much lower overhead and therefore better prices.  I never order from OPG, they take your money and put you on permanent back-order.

   Ditto on Elco restoration, but wagons are even tougher - the unique sheet metal is almost non-existent.  When my resto started a couple of years ago Goodmark was rumored to be producing rear quarter panels with an ETA to market of 4 months.  About 3 months into it I had to decide to wait another month or spend large dinero fixing mine.  I went with fixin' which took 30-35 hours in metal work a side.  Good thing though or I'd still be waiting.  OPG even put them in their catalog.

   Maybe you can help me with my current Holy Grail.  I need a '65 tilt wheel turn signal switch.  It's that cable operated abortion at the bottom of the column that was only used for a couple of years.  OK you can get off the floor and stop laughing now :).  I called/faxed/emailed everywhere.  I had 4 hits on PartsVoice.com but none panned out.  There's a guy in Hemming's that gets something like $265 plus core (my bakelite is cracked and held together with 'race' tape at present, but working.  Altough the hole in it does make it easier to blast it with contact cleaner :) ).  Any ideas on sources?  I guess I won't be alone for long, the last time I was at Danchuck they said Delco was discontinuing the normal TS switches.  John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

2. 
   RANGERP75R | Aug 26, 2002 07:20pm | #16

   John:

      On my way to work now, been on vacation last week. I will try for east coast sources t/s switch with tilt. The tilt is what's killing you. Rare that year to see anyone order it from factory. Putting in catalog b-4 on rumor is not good policy. I know all the guys and gals at GoodMark as it is 4 miles from my home. Most were at Year One at some point. I call it Year II. ha..

      Will e-mail sources (used ) to-nite. Got a heavy schedule so late. That will work out PCT anyway.!!

   Have a great day....

   Sarge..john

3. 
   Elcoholic | Aug 26, 2002 10:17pm | #17

   Especially rare on an Elco.  Mine wasn't original as evidenced by the altered harness.  But it's very cool so I'd like to keep it.  If worse comes to worse I'll rig up a simple 3 position microswitch and add a couple of relays in small box out of sight somewhere.  Your efforts are very greatfully appreciated.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

4. 
   RANGERP75R | Aug 27, 2002 08:20am | #18

   John:

      Ahh!! Not original. Spoke to several today and they guessed that to. Do you have plastic tor metal switch. Any stampings?

   DELCO BPG, etc. What color if plastic?

   Sarge..john

5. 
   Elcoholic | Aug 27, 2002 08:44pm | #19

   Sarge,  It sounds like what your asking for (metal vs. plastic) is for the 2 types of switches and cancel cams that were used with the standard columns.  The tilt column has a completely different set-up.  The switch is down at the bottom of the column and is mounted to the outside of the tube.  It's operated by a cable that goes down the inside of the tube.  The switch has a 6 pin connector in a pyramid pattern 1-2-3.  It's brown bakelite or similar material.  If I remember correctly it's not even shown in the regular chassis manual.  I found it in the reprint looseleaf ####'y instructions under the N33? 13?? option number.  When I searched using the part number form the ####'y manual there was definately some questioning/confusion over that part number.  Definately a pain in the you know what.

   Makes me wonder what I'll be in for when I find that elusive 1 and only Z16 ragtop that was supposedly built in '65.  If I remember right, the Z16's had over 50-60 changes.  Of course for me to find it, it'll have to be in a barn somewhere and way under valued.  If nice Z16's go for $40k the ragtop could be 10 or 20 times that for the one and only.  I guess even if I paid $40k I wouldn't have room to bitch about finding rare parts for a half-million dollar Chevelle!  More likely the next car will be a '65 2-door wagon.

   One last note along the "if I only knew then ..." line of thought.  In the mid 70's I had a part time job at a chevy dealer as the used car lot boy.  Gas prices were going through the roof and people were trading muscle cars for Vegas and 6 cyl. Novas.  I had enough HP on the lot to move it, especially hemi's and 440 6 pack/4 speed death traps.  Most of them ended up being sacrificed at the dealer auction.  The last car I drove to the auction lot was a '71 LS6 ragtop red w/ white interior.  I probably could have owned it for $500.  Ouch.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

6. 
   RANGERP75R | Aug 28, 2002 01:40am | #20

   John:

      Will take option #'s you gave and have our technical dept. play. Yes, G.M. did some strange things. I had a company for 14 years doing direct replace to insurance customers for stolen wire wheel covers and T-Tops. Wasn't much I didn't know about locking wire-wheel covers and keys for such back then. Had G.M. engineering and parts assistence call me 12 times in 14 years to ask me questions about their locking system and related parts. Ha.. Anyway, see what I can do. No promises as you know there may be none.

   Have a good evening

   Sarge..john t

7. 
   Elcoholic | Aug 26, 2002 06:27pm | #15

   Too bad about the Cobra.  The small blocks handled much better but as you know most people (me included) lust for that Shotgun motor.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

3. 
   Splintie | Aug 25, 2002 02:12am | #13

   I want your opinion of will apoxy work as a finish for oak bed flooring

   Our clocks and tables were meant for indoor use and they definitely did NOT stand up to sunlight. Also, we had to finish both sides one right after the other or the finished side would shrink, warping the wood badly. One time we had just packed a walnut table in the bed of a truck, but a little patch about 3" D. was peeking out of the blanket and the sun bubbled it off the wood just like that. This was that really thick plactic crap, though, so i don't know if thinner coats would work or not for your app. Oh, and it yellowed, both the polyester ad polymer resins. Sorry i can't help more. 

2. 
   dhpascoe | Aug 22, 2002 03:53pm | #3

   I recently tried adding very fine wood dust from Padauk mixed with epoxy in a Padauk project where I made a bad cut in a very large piece. After it aged a couple months, the resulting  fix is now almost invisible. I got the dust from the belt sander bag. This should work for all darker woods, but will not look so good for light woods llike maple because of the color of epoxy.

   When the going gets tough . . . it's tough going!
3. 
   bsutton12 | Aug 23, 2002 06:28pm | #5

   I have used black Trans Tint successfully to color epoxy.  I used the eposxy to fill small cracks and defects.  I used black as an accent rather than trying to hide the defect.

4. 
   Dale | Aug 24, 2002 03:08am | #10

   I came up with the following method several years ago and I like it because it's cheap and so easy to make.  Take some sanding dust from one of the species with high tannic contents, oaks, walnut and others. Throw in some iron filings, grind a nail down if needed.  Mix together and wet contents, wait a while, not long and you have a black powder.  Let dry, if in a hurry nuke the sucker, I did not notice any sparks in our microwave, I use small iron filings.  After the mixture is dry you can run a maganet over the black power and remove most of the iron particles, sometimes I don't, it depends on the size iron particles you used. 

   Mix up some 5 minute expoxy and add a pinch of the blacken powder, mix well, and apply.  Let the expoxy set up and scrape or sand flush with wood surface. I will attemp to attach a sycamore flag case with "blacken epoxy" in defect holes to make them character marks  : ' >..Dale

   P.S. A quarter inch of this powder in the bottom of a throw away butter container will last me a year of more.

   PSS Well I guess I don't have the smarts to upload a pic in this forum. If some one wishes I can email them the pic and they can upload the thing for me..........Have a great week-end

   
   

   ---

   Edited 8/23/2002 8:17:35 PM ET by Dale