Replies

1. 
   SgianDubh | Jun 13, 2004 07:24am | #1

   I'm rather surprised you got away with what you did, Frank, ha, ha. Water based dye wouldn't be what I'd use.

   Analine dyes are available soluble in spirits, which means alcohol, lacquer thinners, that kind of thing, and alcohol is the solvent for shellac, so they are compatible.

   Dissolve your spirit dye in alcohol and tint your shellac to taste.

   Universal tinting colours (UTC's) will dissolve in many solvents, and these too can be used in polishes to adjust the colour.  (They can be used in lots other ways too, like adjusting the colour of grain filler.)  

   The grains of UTC's often tend not to fully dissolve in my experience leaving a bit of sediment giving them some pigment stain type qualities-- a trait that can be used to advantage in some colouring operations, including adjusting shellac polish. Slainte.

   RJFurniture

1. 
   Biscardi | Jun 13, 2004 02:38pm | #4

   Thanks for your note. I actually used your walnut stain that you told me how to mix a  couple of years ago.

   I guess the water mixed with the alcohol. It worked fairly well, but  I won't do that on this bigger piece.

   FB

1. 
   SgianDubh | Jun 14, 2004 11:42pm | #7

   I don't recall which recipe I gave you all that time back, Frank, ha, ha. I've got more than one.

   Anyway, I suspect you got away with something a bit on the dodgy end using already water dissolved dye. I suspect water based dye added as powder to shellac wouldn't dissolve properly and it might act more as a pigment in the polish, which might be ok in some circumstances, but it's not something I'd be willing to experiment with too much if I was in a hurry for a result.

   I'd stick to using aniline dyes dissolved in alcohol for future tinkering with the colour of shellac-- they're compatible for sure.

   One reason why I drink my beer quickly is because I don't like it diluted by atmospheric water mixing with the booze element, ha, ha-- ha, ha, ha. Slainte.RJFurniture

1. 
   Biscardi | Jun 15, 2004 12:15am | #8

   Richard,

   Thanks, I will get some fresh pigment and try an alcohol based tint. I inherited the shop notes of a very old fellow who used to make repros for Williamsburg ,so I am interested to try some of his stains..

   Thanks,

   Frank

1. 
   Biscardi | Jun 16, 2004 03:32am | #9

   Ok, last questions. I I want to use tinted shellac on Cherry, do I need to use a clear shellac seal coat to prevent blotching?

   I was reading through a very old (1940s) book on finishing. Can someone point me to a good, readable, general how to book in print?

2. 
   bill_1010 | Jun 16, 2004 04:02pm | #10

   Is probably use a clear blonde sealer in a 1lb cut before applying tinted (not natural colored) shellac.  But in past i havent sealed due to the effect i wanted.  Try out some test samples first.

   As far as books,  anythign by Jeff Jewitt or Micheal dresder (sp?) would be great books.  

   Both will cover  brushing, padding, wiping and spraying all types of finishes.

   Be sure you use quality alcohol in thinning/burning of shellac.  Dont use old denatured alcohol as over time it will absorb water as its hydroscopic.  

2. 
   nikkiwood | Jun 13, 2004 09:40am | #2

   I assume you are talking about powdered aniline dyes intended to be mixed with water?

   If that's what it is, I too am surprised it worked -- I would have thought mixing shellac and water would get you a curdled mess. Anyway, I'd have all kinds of trepedation about using this concoction on a bigger piece. The problem with dye is that if it gets mucked up, it may be hard to reverse.

   Better to use a dye, as Sgian suggests, that is meant to be mixed with solvents.

   But have you thought about using the Transtint stuff from Homestead? I really like it, can be mixed with anything (including water-based products), and lots of people in this forum seem to get good results with it as well.

1. 
   UncleDunc | Jun 13, 2004 10:09am | #3

   Alcohol and water are mutually soluble. If it were otherwise, all your favorite beverages would be a curdled mess. In fact pure alchohol is so eager to mix with water that it will absorb water out of the air. That's the reason for the warning to keep your alcohol tightly capped.

   I've never tried the experiment of adding water to already mixed shellac, but it doesn't surprise me at all to find out that a water based dye solution can be mixed with shellac.

2. 
   Biscardi | Jun 14, 2004 03:05am | #5

   I think the stains I used were homestead stains.

3. 
   OneofmanyBobs | Jun 14, 2004 02:00pm | #6

   Even though water and alcohol are miscible, water isn't a solvent for shellac.  It just goes along for the ride and too much will cause things to start precipitating into a mess.  You can fairly safely add one to three percent water.  Many water-processed flake shellacs have that much residual water already present.  Too much water and it will have problems drying and be sticky.  Better to use alcohol-soluble aniline dye mixed with the shellac.

4. 
   coolbreeze | Jun 18, 2004 05:36am | #11

   I am surprised you could not see a separation of the water soluable dye in that devels brew.

   I have only limnited experience in adding dyes to shellac, but what I do have includes a mistaken addition of water soluable annaline dye to shellac. It was immediately noticable.

1. 
   Biscardi | Jun 18, 2004 05:43am | #12

   I read about this a little in a 1940s text on finishing.

   You shouldn't do this because the water in the shellac will turn the mixture opaque.

   Also the dye may become less soluable and act as a pigment.

   Nonetheless, it is one of the prettiest things I ever stained. I'll post a picture when it is all done.

   Frank