I’ve finally come to an impasse as to whether to use a filler on an oak night stand I’m ready to finish. I’ve always, shied away from any finish that masks the feel and looks of the natural wood, so I’ve never used a filler. The more I read about finishing oak, the more I’m convinced that the majority of people decide to use a filler. This is a new process to me, as I have always elected to leave things alone as much as possible. Granted the stain will be darker where it soaks into the more coarse grain, but most of the antique furniture we own hasn’t used a filler. Hence, my conundrum. How does a filler affect the staining properties? What is the best bet for the best results if you guys convince me to use a filler? I used to work in the casework department of a company that made high end pipe organs. Most of the casework and the consoles were oak, and they were never filled… comments?
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I'm another that's never filled oak - at least on any of my projects. If you're really worried about it, stain and finish some samples with and without a filler and see what you like the best.
I'll jump in on this one. I am in the process of building a chest of red oak. Put neutral filler on it. I was trying to get a dark finish, so I stained it with Java General. The final color, though attractive was only a medium brown. It has darkened with additional applications. In this case the filler definitely affected the stain.
Oak can be treated either way, with the decision be mostly esthetic but heavily related in my opinion to the kind of top coat you have in mind. If you feel you need lots of protection from the top coat. That is, if you expect to leave iced drinks on it all night then you want a film finish with enough thickness to prevent water from penetrating and making stains. In that case I would recommend filling the pores, since I think a reasonably thick film finish with open pores can look tacky.
Now oak has very large pores, considerably larger than walnut or mahogany, and take some doing to fill the pores, but it's not hard, just a bit time consuming.
If you want the oak to be a dark color, then you want to begin by dying it to the approximate shade you want. Then you would seal this, perhaps with about 1 lb. cut of shellac. You can follow this with pore filler. The pore filler should be tinted, depending on the effect. To emphasize the pores a bit, make it a shade darker than the overall background color, or alternatively a shape lighter. To de-emphasize the pores, work to match the filler to the background colore. It will take some experimenting to work this out.
It will probably take two applications of pore filler to really do the job on oak, since the filler will likely shrink into the pores on one coat. Here is where the time comes in, since with the oil based fillers I use (Behlen's Pore O Pac is one) you should wait at least 3-4 days between coats in warm, dry surroundings and a week if the temps are less than say 70 degrees. A week would never hurt. Then wait another week after the second coat of filler, at least, before applying a top coat. You might get away with shorter waits, but the consequence of ending up too short is that the filler could turn whitish under the top coat, and that might not happen for months.
After this work, don't shortchange the finish by using poly, use a traditional resin varnish such as Behlen's Rockhard for darker surfaces, or Pratt & Lambert 38 or McCloskey Heirloom for lighter. About three brushed on coats, or 6-8 wiped on coats (thinned 50-50) would give a good protective finish. Waterlox Original/Sealer is a good wipe on. This many coats of poly would begin to show a haziness, but would be fine with a traditional resin varnish.
If you will always use coasters, then an in-the-wood finish, or a very thin film finish will look better with open pores, in my opinion. Start with a dye, seal, and then use a pigmented stain to emphasize, or de-emphasize the pores. Top off with an oil/varnish such as Watco, or a thin wiping varnish, say 3-4 coats of Waterlox, or one you mix your self.
Mac -
That's why I suggested making samples. Staining and finishing are as much art as science and (for me, anyway), any change in materials or techniques can be an adventure. Samples let me see what I'll get before I commit myself to something that I might regret - lol.
What's wrong with pumice stone and french polish ?
Use the right shade of shellac and you don't have to stain it.C.
Well, I can't say that I've ever seen that type of finish and I doubt if any of my customers would pay fot it, but if that's what you like.........go for it. - lol
The point I'm trying to make in this thread - as well as other threads I've seen - is that experimenting with sample pieces is the best way to find out what a finish will look like. It's easy enough to cut some scrap into sample pieces and most stains and finishes are available in small quantities. Samples let you practice the technique(s) involved and see if you like the results without wrecking something you have a ton of time invested in. LOTS of my samples wind up in the scrap barrel - lol.
Of course experimenting is the way to go, if you are staining or otherwise changing the color of the wood.
I have been making furniture for more than 40 years and I stained only one piece because I really had to. 90% of my pieces are finished with french polish only because that's what I learned, people make a big fuss about it, it "ain't" that hard after all.C.
It's a matter of preference. I really like the more rustic look of the open pores, but most of my oak pieces have been casual. To me filling it would give it a more polished formal look.
Thanks Scotty, and others. I guess that since I'm ultimately trying to match the turn of the century bedroom set my wife bought that I'm going to pass on the filler since those pieces are not filled. The next step is to figure out what finish to use in order to match the color and look of the antiques. They're the standard dark oak in appearance, and I'm assuming some type of varnish was used. Got any ideas? Granted, samples are the sure way to go, but starting with an educated guess would help.
I'd bet 2 to 1 that if you put some alcohol on an inconspicuous place you will observe the finish getting sticky. That would mean shellac.
Before you start to match, make sure you have done a good cleaning of the older pieces. You want to match the oak, and its finishm but not the accumulated grime of a century.
Thanks, I'll try it. In the event that it is shellac (my learning curve drastically steepens at this point), do you think it would be hard to match the changes that will have occured over a period of 100+ years of oxidation? This question is in lieu of jumping into making test samples, which would entail purchasing shellac and learning how to use it. Oil and varnish have always been my choice to work with, versatility not being one of my strong points when it comes to finishes.
Shellac is a very versatile finish, well worth adding to the menu. You will probably need to dye the wood a bit before adding the finish, but a fairly dark shellac would help to bring the depth of the look seen on the older pieces. And, no matter what finish you choose, you'll need to do some tests to get a reasonable match.
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