to plumb or not to plumb?

crt2cu2 | Posted in General Discussion on November 28, 2003 09:32am

Hapy Turkey Day to all!
A Question: When installing wainscoting, interior casework, ceiling borders and such, how does one cope with out of plumb and out of level walls?
For example, I am fabricating and installing arts and crafts style wainscoting in a 100 year old house. The baseboard is out of level about one inch in 30 feet probably due to settling over the years. If I level the top rail of the wainscoting then each stile will require a different length. However, such an attempt to level the rail will result in an obvious tapered looking wainscoting not to mention the possibility of the panels appearing out of square. Out of square corners I can manage by scribing and back cutting of course but I can’t figure out if I should split the distance or match it. Out of level ceilings are another problem child. I am fabricating and installing a simple ceiling border with dentil molding but worry about the molding appearing out of level akin to the wainscoting below. Thus, the walls, being cased bottom and top might really look odd with two out of level and opposing plane applied wood treatments.
Anyone have suggestions that don’t include a bucket of caulk or taping mud?
Namaste’
mike s.

Replies

Curtis | Nov 28, 2003 01:16pm | #1
Hello

I found a place called the foam factory near my home. they sell foam rubber moldings that can be glued up and bent to shape easily. after glued up you use a watered down joint compound, let it dry and sand.after two to three coats the molding is as hard a drywall and can be painted. its quick easy and cheap. since the stuff bends you don't have to caulk the celing and the walls to fill in the gaps,that you would have if you use wood.

about the plumb or not? go by eye do what ever looks good.

a old teacher of mine use to state. HOW CARES ,if its level or even straight! it must look like it grew there! THAT'S YOUR GOAL. ;-)

good luck.

sincerely C.A.G.
BobLang | Nov 28, 2003 02:47pm | #2
You will be happier when you are done if you install all of the millwork straight, level, square and plumb. I've worked in the architectural millwork industry for nearly 30 years, and if you try to compensate for an out of whack building by making the millwork likewise you will end up with major problems, either visually (as you describe) or physically when you get to a corner.

For the wainscot you describe, I would scribe the baseboard to the floor, establishing a level line at the top of the baseboard. Now your panels will be square, all the parts will be the same size, and the visual focus will be on how good the panels look, not the sloped floor. Generally speaking you want to make your corrections where the millwork meets the building-at the floor, cieling, corners, etc.

As for the crown, you might have to modify the detail to give you some room to establish a level line above the dentil molding. By the way, my new book, "Shop Drawings for Craftsman Interiors" discusses these issues, as well as many others in a lot more detail than there is room for here. It won't be in bookstores or libraries for a few weeks, but I will have copies available Monday or Tuesday.

Hope this helps,

Bob Lang

http://www.craftsmanplans.com
KMcColly | Nov 28, 2003 08:18pm | #3
The eye is the supreme judge of what is correct, not a bubble on an instrument. Although the proper step would be to have the building leveled on its foundation prior to any restoration work on the interior, this is evidently not an option.

The floor and ceiling should be reasonably parallel regardless of being level. Install both your wainscoting and crown molding parallel to the floor and ceiling respectively. The mullions in the wainscoting should be installed plumb. One inch in 30' will not be a distraction if installed in this manner; and if at some time the building is leveled you will have a perfect installion job. Just be sure to leave enough play in you wainscoting panels to allow for shift. I have done a lot of work in building restoration and this is the way it works best.

Same goes for a railing on a nonlevel balcony or a fence on sloping property.

Ken

Edited 11/28/2003 12:20:55 PM ET by Ken
JMartinsky | Nov 29, 2003 06:10am | #4
I've been working on these old houses for about ever and I can tell you that out of level 1" over 30' is a BLESSING!! That being said, unless you are hanging doors, leave the level in the truck. If the ceiling and floor are parallel, or even close, then you are in business. Never mind trying to straighten out 100 years of settling. If you do, it will show. The trick is to follow what is there. It is not as hard as it may seem. Even a trained eye has trouble picking up 1/16" difference here and there, so don't get too wild with making it all straight and level. At 100 years, if it still has the plaster walls, then the variations will be endless. When we work on the older homes, when we get done, it should look like we were never there. That means that if every floor is out of level, every wall, door jamb and widow casing out of plumb, we match it. It is the only way to work in the older homes. Otherwise it is a losing battle.

Good Luck!

John

Edited 11/29/2003 7:22:47 AM ET by JMartinsky
Norse | Nov 29, 2003 05:09pm | #5
I agree with the others on following the floor/ceiling slope. However, in my 1872 house, someone had partially leveled a sloping floor but not the ceiling, almost a 2" difference in 24'. I split the difference at cased openings and no one can tell. Have fun, as much of a challenge old houses are, they are more satisfying in the end.