Just finished coating our new cherry video entertainment center cabinet with Watco natural Danish oil. The finish came out much better that my joinery and I now have high hopes for my circular saw masterpiece. I have been reading the threads on finishes for cherry and I think that a wax finish just might be the way to go to get a low sheen smooth surface without spending too much time or effort, both of which are in short supply here. what do you master woodworkers think of this idea?
An entertainment center , especially mine is not a museum piece and as such does not need a super fine finish, just something to make it socially acceptable to my other “fine” pieces of furniture. If wax is compatible with the watco oil, exactly what brand or specific kind of wax should I use? Even a nail banger such as I just knows that a generic brand of that aerosol dust and wax stuff is not what to use. Please note that I live in a very small town and my total sources of supply are Lowes and a Ace Hardware.
For those who might be wondering, no, I don’t live a mobile home.
Replies
Lou,
How many applications of the Watco did you use? It is actually an oil/varnish mixture. Using just one or two applications, and wiping all the excess off before it dries, as recommended leaves very little, if any film on the surface. But using 4 or 5, or more applications, rubbing very gently, leaving a sheen at the end of each application, starts to build a more protective varnish component of the finish on the surface. Very thin film, but a little more protective than the low number-of-applications-oil look.
If you are determined to use a wax coat over the Watco, any paste wax will do. Despite marketing hype, there's nothing to be gained one brand over another. I prefer Johnson's Paste Wax. Apply it so that all surfaces are covered. Let it get dull (solvent evaporation) and buff every bit of excess wax off that you can. Only a thin film of wax will be left that will adhere only to the wood and won't come off onto other things. All the excess wax above that final film will come off in the buffing because wax adheres poorly to itself, but well to other surfaces (the wood). That film will never need recoating unless it's mechanically removed by abrasion or chemicals. Wax will give fair to good protection against water, acids and alcohol if they are removed quickly.
Once you've put paste wax on, protect it from those that would defile it with spray-on products such as Pledge, Old English and other furniture "oils" and "waxes" which all contain silicones and solvents.
Rich
I only have done the instructions recommended two coats then a wipe down. Will try additional coats as you described and see how it looks. I have just a few other questions. How much time should I wait between coats? The cans 8 hour dry time or something less, and will each coat partially dissolve the film of preceding coats? I'm concerned about reaching a point of diminishing returns and not knowing it.
Thanks to you and FG for the generous input.
Lou,
I'd wait 24-48 hours between coats. Each coat will not partially disolve anything under it, but will adhere as well as if that had happened. The point of diminishing returns is 5-6 coats, depending on how much surface film you actually leave. You will see the finish "build" with each application. At a certain point, it doesn't seem to visually improve with additional coats.
Rich
Based on some "conversation" about waxes awhile back, you'd probably want to stay away from Briwax. Hard stuff to find anyway, so not likely to present itself as an option, but from what was said it's not a good idea to use it on newly finished pieces.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Lou,
I've used Watco on many occasions. I, too, recommend the extra coats for a better finish. I also recommend going with 400 grit wet/dry paper and wet sanding the last 2 coats that you put on. I don't know the reasons why, but this seems to give a very satiny sheen to the finish. It begs to be touched. My commission customers request it once they've seen it on an appropriate piece.
On the wax, I like Minwax paste wax; should be availabe at Lowe's. I put a coat on after about 24 - 48 hours drying time of the last application of oil. (You could probably start sooner but I wait this long because I'm unsure about solvent interactions.)
If it's for a customer, I usually supply them with a can of wax when I deliver the piece. It helps to remove any chance for that spray junk to hit my work. And customers get jazzed up about it. Almost as if they're being brought into the fold of the shop.
FWIW.
Kell
Kell,
And to add to the effect, accompany the can of wax with a brand new yellow flannel shop cloth with red stiching around the edges, carefully folded to fit on the top of the can.
Explain that the secret of the kind of wax that you're giving them has been known only to truly knowledgable furniture makers through the centuries. Demonstrate by applying wax from your well-used can to a tiny spot on the piece and "lovingly" buff it out with one of your old cloths. That can and cloth will last them a lifetime, to be used reverently, once a year.
Rich
Edited 9/4/2002 1:23:06 PM ET by Rich Rose
Rich and Kell,,
You guys are some very sly businessmen. Something extra, "insider" information, and a subtle demonstration of the TLC that you gave during their pieces construction. Very, very sly. Do you have any hints on how I can apply these principles on my products, additions, remodels and new construction?
I don't think a used mop would be as effective as your wax and neatly folded rag. I once was given a solid brass door knocker with our name engraved on it by the realtor who sold us the house. Nice, but not as personal as inside wax secrets.
Lou,
Giving "added value" to a customer is such an effective way to cement a relationship. It is often perceived as greater value than the commissioned work itself. It is almost always possible to include a little indication of caring without any, or very little additional cost or effort. Sometimes you can't buy, for any amount, the good will that such an effort results in.
Several years ago, I was helping a friend in Philadelphia get his custom furniture business off the ground. He and his wife were really struggling and they had very little capital to get the business started with.
He wanted a color brochure and we went to a few printing houses. Such work is very expensive. He only wanted 300-400, but such work is done in the many thousands, minimum. One of the printing houses was very accomodating. They explained that they could put his job on the large press sheet along with another commercial job that didn't use up all the space on the sheet, but which had essentially paid for the full sheet. This saved some bucks.
We worked with his graphics department for a few weeks designing the brochure. All this was "on the clock" time at about $150 an hour. We got to know the graphics guy pretty well, and he got a pretty good feeling for my friend's design needs.
When we picked up the finished job, we were surprised to find that the graphic artist had taken the logo that he had made for the brochure, scaled it down and made a business card design out of it. He had found just enough extra room on the press sheet to run a "strip" of business cards along one edge of the sheet. When the final job was cut up out of the press sheet, they just cut the cards at the same time. (the cutting machines are computer driven). The press run was 10,000 sheets, I think. There were 4 business card layouts on the sheet, which yielded 40,000 cards!
The printers threw away most of them, but presented us with 5 boxes of 1000 cards each - for free! It cost them just about nothing to do that. I remember my friend's wife sitting down and crying when she saw those cards, because they didn't have any business cards at all at that point and no more budget to order them.
Believe me, my friend has been using the same printer since and steers anyone to them he can.
Rich
Lou,
I've been dealing with the public in business, retail, as well as my avocation, woodworking, for many years. That little extra touch is what turns customers into clients and provides all kinds of referrals over the years.
To your question, you should consider a short "newsletter" on the care and feeding of the customer's new addition, etc. I give all my customers a short (one page) thank you note that explains how their project was constructed, finished and what species of wood it contains, any unusual joinery, etc. This is useful in that the project is almost always an heirloom type piece that I expect to be around much longer than me. If a future woodworker needs to repair or refinish, having that info can be helpful. (This step alone has provided me with as many as 5 projects from one customer's referrals.)
One section in the letter contains info on how to care for it. How often to wax, how to repair stains, scratches or water marks (or how leaving them alone creates character!). You could do this with your new construction / additions, too. How often to paint, what to inspect annually and how to address what they see on inspection. I would submit to you that most homeowners don't have a clue how to maintain their houses properly and you're doing a service that will help their entire home, not just what you've built. That's added value professionalism.
It's easy to keep a rough form or draft of the letter on computer and then customize it for each customer. Only takes a few minutes and also allows you to share your company's "brand" with that customer in a way that makes them glad they hired you and recommend them to their friends. "Keller Woodworking is committed to creating one of a kind pieces out of the best woods using old-world joinery. Each piece is unique and designed with you and with you in mind." I use this line as the opener in each newsletter.
One other idea, not mine but my real estate agent's. Each year on the anniversary of buying my house, he sends me a pencil drawing of an old classic house that is suitable for framing. He knows how much I like old architecture. Probably costs him almost nothing but it does make me think of him every year and the level of service he provided me.
Hope this helps.
Kell
Coat number three is on and things are looking great, except for what appears to be the infamous cherry splotching effect. This is the first time this ever happened to me, but I have a limited experience. Why is it that any fault always appears in the most visual location?
I hate to be a pest, but I have another question. Could I substitute oooo steel wool for the 400 grit wet sanding that you mentioned previously? All of the joints and crevices on this project would give me fits getting it cleaned up, plus I'm a bit ham fisted for that kind of detail work.
Do you have a web site which shows some of you work?
Lou,
steel wool is just fine. Use it only on the last coat and use a lubricant. A great lubricant to use is . . .
Paste Wax!
You polish the top coat and apply wax all in one step. Looks great!
Rich
I am greatly indebted to you for your sage advice and continued attention to this thread. Put on the forth coat today and picked up a can of Minwax Paste Finishing Wax at my local Lowe's. It is a labor of love to spend 2 hours working on this project after putting in a hard day at the money making job.
My dogs are not real fond of the Watco product, it causes them to sneeze. But they will have to put up with it for few more days. I should say that they use my garage/workshop as a night-time bedroom whenever the bears are about, and a real big one was spotted a few days ago.
Do you have a web site which shows some of your work?
Lou,
Glad I could help. No website. But a digital camera is something my wife and I have agreed to give each other this Christmas. So I'll take some pictures. I only make things for my family and friends any more. I'll have to round some up (the furniture that is) and see if I can be a photographer.
Rich
This entertainment center, the video half of two, is the result of our last years Christmas co-gifts of a leading edge DVD machine and a 6.1 super surround sound receiver. Sometimes it is wise to check out that gift-horse's mouth.
Take care, and strive to be happy.
Lou,
Those splotches are a pain but I notice they tend to even out over time. No I haven't posted any photos of my stuff, probably should though I don't yet have a digital camera or scanner. I barely keep a scrapbook up to date.
I've never tried it with steel wool so I can't say. My experience has shown that it's most important to do this on the flat surfaces since that what people most want to touch so I always focus on those. I usually use 0000 steel wool as a rub out with paste wax so I guess it couldn't hurt. The slurry that occurs with the sanding may not happen or be forced into the wood grain with the steel wool as it does with the wet dry paper.
Good luck on the project!
Kell
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