I recently purchased a round 12-inch Vietnamese Temple Block that has been carved from solid wood. A partially hollowed rhythm/percusion instrument, it is more or less a wooden “bell”. There are two 2-inch holes at mid points on opposite sides of the spherical block and a thin slit has been sawn between them from the bottom up to allow the sound to escape from the hollow inside. I would like to hollow it out more to improve its sound.
I am moderately experienced with wood and tools but am unable to locate an appropriate “chisel” for working inside the block through such a narrow opening. The block’s diameter of 12 inches and the narrow 2-inch “carving access†holes require a type of tool I am unfamiliar with. What I’m looking for is something long and appropriately curved that will let me work into the cavity through the small openings. The wood is hard and will require the use of a mallet (hmm…unless it would be a tool one PULLS, not pushes).
A picture of the block might make it clearer and can be seen at
http://static.zoovy.com/img/rhythmfusion/-/es_v_vietna_v15d
I’d appreciate any advice on how to find an appropriate tool as well as general thoughts on how best to hollow out this lil conundrum.
Thanks, Michael
Replies
It was probably made on a lathe:
http://www.customwooddesign.com/hollowturning-1.html
I think you are probably right - I have seen lathes doing work like this in Cambodia. But, even if he could re-chuck it it would probably not be round now due to the relatively green wood used in lots of the SE Asian work and changes from that cliamate to his.
Do you think putting a longer handle on a small scorp, or even one of those spon carving tools, would let him do what he wants?
Dave
Since you are only removing material from an area that won't be seen , may I suggest a flexable shaft tool with a long thin sleeve for it's handle?
Attached at the tip should be a ball shaped rotary rasp.
As for seeing your work in progress, attach a flashlight bulb to two wires to place down through one of the holes. Another suggestion : Use a long 1/4 " steel rod in a cordless drill The 'business' end of the shaft has to be bored to accept a 1/8" shaft Rotary rasp. Steinmetz.
Now that (flexible shaft tool)is a good idea. I'd thought about it but discounted it until your message provoked a deeper look. While I'm probably not up to boring a 1/4 inch rod to accept a 1/8 shaft rasp, I've taken your thought and imagined placing a reinforcing "splint" of perhaps 10 inches on the business end of a flex shaft to allow me to work against the middle to far side(s) of the interior through the narrow opening...I might even be able to come up with a somewhat bent "splint" to to reach deeper into the mid points. I actually have a rasp or two I can try this out with. It'll be a week or so before I can check it out, but I'll get back to you and let you know.Fingers crossed, Michael
You'll have to control the speed when using an extended shaft.
That's why I suggested using a cordless drill. I saved the 4-3/4" shaft from an old Dremel tool .It still has collet and locking nut attached. I use it for extended 'reach' with any of my electric drills. My Flexible shaft runs far too fast with anything more than 2-1/2"long
extending from the chuck.Years ago
I had a solid shaft about 18 " long with an integral rotary bur (Rotary rasp)milled on it's business end.
Check Mc Master-Carr if they have something like that. A 1/4 " shafted Rotary rasp can be brazed to a steel rod if you set the shafts on V blocks to keep them concentric.Steinmetz
Edited 8/17/2006 1:32 am ET by Steinmetz
Took a quick look at the McMaster-Carr site but didn't find anything quite right. Will go back for a longer look. Seems like a great site, thanks much. Bookmarked for future reference.Good thought about brazing a rasp on a 1/4 inch shaft of appropriate length. I'm sure I can find someone to do that for me in the city for less than an arm and a leg. Might even get them to braze on a small chuck instead so I can change and replace rasps. Hmm...the idea's growing on me...I could place a slightly larger tube over the shaft that would both brace it and allow me to hold the shaft for increased control.Appreciate the stir of ideas on this great just-discovered site.Michael
I'd suggest making a series of radiused scrapers on wooden handles at different angles for different sections. I think it would only take four or five scrapers. I don't know how thin the walls are but a lot of it has to be short grain. I remove a lot of stock using the first tooth of a float as a scraper. They can be aggressive but still offer control without a lot of force. Control and a limited ability to apply much force to be the big issues. I'd either get it back on a lathe or muster up a bunch of patience and some scrapers.
I'm not sure about the idea of a scraper. The 12-inch hardwood sphere is only about 25% hollowed out and I want to take it to about 75% which means I'd be dealing with several inches of wood throughout the interior, working through these relatively tiny 2-inch openings. If the wood were soft, maybe, but it is quite hard. OTOH, I've not done a lot of work with scrapers and will keep the idea in mind. Also, I am not in a position to make a set of scrapers as I live in a New York City apartment and have neither the tools not the neighbor's willingness to have me working with metal. <smile>Still, the idea of a scraper has me thinking about finding a looooong curved chisel and having someone bend it way back on itself so that I could use it with a pulling motion like a scraper.I'll keep thinking on it, Michael
Dave->> Do you think putting a longer handle on a small scorp, or even one of those spon carving tools, would let him do what he wants? <<My woodworking knowledge doesn't go far enough to know what a "scorp" or "spo(o)n carving tool" are. Any chance you can you point me to a site where I can take a look? I'm pretty good at looking at new tools and figuring out if they might do what I need...Thanks, Michael
View ImageThis is a spoon carving tool
View Imageand this a scorp. I have seen scorps as smal as 1" in diameter, but not in any recent catalogue.
But, having seen your additional pictures I am more inclined to heed Larry William's advice on a scraper. I dont think either tool will go through the holes.
From a 'musical' perspective, I am not sure you will achieve what you are after by additional hollowing. Most of these wod block things are 'tuned' (for what that is worth on percussion) with the size / mass of the solid component. Bells by the balance between solid and enclosed space. additional hollowing may simply wrech the tone of the instrument - they are not as 'primative' as they look.
dave
Dave-That scorp looks very interesting. If I could find one to fit through a hole slightly smaller than 2 inches, it just might be what I need. Actually the smaller the better because of the hardness of the wood, small bites being easier than big ones. I'll go looking to see what I can find on the net. BTW, any suggestions about sites to check, or the best tool sites in general? It's been years since I had a shop or did anything but minor repair work. I no longer have any idea where to find tools.As for the problem to wrecking the tone, you are wise to warn me, but I'm basing my desire to try this on having seen other such temple blocks with much better sound that were much more hollowed out. I really have nothing to lose because I bought the block on the internet unlistened to (a first for me in collecting and playing more than 80 primitive rhythm and percussion instruments). I liked the looks of it enough to take the risk but, sadly, would never have bought it if I'd listened to it. The sound is flat and dull, almost exactly what you'd expect of a large piece of wood that was minimally hollowed. At this point, I'm trying to salvage a beautiful but foolish purchase.Off to look for scorps...Michael
Dave-Just found a 1-inch scorp at http://www.northbayforge.com/sc1.htmLooks like it will do at least part of what I need. I'll have to extend the handle by affixing a length of tubing, or somesuch, over the handle with small recessed screws or epoxy if necessary.I'm attaching a small bottle of champagne to this message as a thankyou...though be careful opening it as it can spill and ruin your modem.Much thanks,Michael
Michael I have some of those North Bay Forge tools and they are very high quality and extremely sharp. Kind of expensive but rarely dissappointing. Have you thought about using heat/fire to help with the bulky removal? Here in Saint Louis (in the basement of the Art Museum) there is a magnificent slit gong. It is a log about 18" diameter and at least 8 feet tall. It is hollowed through a narrow slit about 1" to 2" wide that is nearly the full length of the log. This piece is hollowed out to about 1" to 2" wall thickness and of fairly hard wood. I have secretly tested its tone (don't tell on me... you aren't supposed to touch it) and it has a magnificent deep voice with long, lingering tones! I think that the small opening encourages resonance though I am unsure of whether the proportions (of opening to hollow size) are very critical. I really love the way this gong rumbles!! I am pretty sure that the primitive artists who made it (I believe that it is African) would have used fire as part of their hollowing process. The northwest indians do that when making their dugouts (which BTW are nearly as beautiful as viking boats... bearing little resemblance to the crude half hollowed logs of South American or African origin that we have all seen in National Geographic). Another advantage that the original makers have is in working the wood green (when it is much easier to carve). I have some carbide toothed balls kind of like real spiky toothed rasps which are great for roughing out spoons and mine are about 1" diameter. I find them much more controllable than the chainsaw carving tools and they leave a surface that is surprisingly smooth considering their spiky look. Woodcraft carries them. If you can put them on a shaft that will access the area they would make things a lot easier. Back to the indian dugouts; they sometimes use hot rocks from the fire as a medium to direct the charring where they want it... seems like you might be able to do something similar since rocks (or ball bearings/small metal scrap parts) could be chosen of any appropriate size. I have used a small jewelers torch to make pretty tightly controlled piercings in hollow turnings. You have to be careful about overheating though as you can burn out glue joints and/or cause undesirable warping. I used intense heat applied to small areas with cool down time between work sessions. Keep a spray bottle (of water) handy when charring as stray fingers of coals can cause serious damage if not stopped right away. Another thought is that you could possibly use a piece of hot iron rod to tranfer heat to specific areas through the slit. This would be easy for me as a forge owner but might be difficult for you. I am just throwing out ideas for you to think about. Have some fun with it!
Interesting, the idea of using a lathe to turn the inside of an object. I took a look at the page you included (thanks). This particular temple block may have had *some* work done that way, but looking inside I can see nothing but clear marks of a rounded chisel blade (guessing a width of about 5/8).There is probably no way to chuck and turn it now because of the extreme unevenness of the shape, and because it would ruin the external workmanship. I've figured out how to include an image (I think), which should illustrate the difficulty. The top image is similar to my piece, the other is included to illustrate the smallness of the opening into the interior.Thanks, Michael
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