Thanks for the info guys:
I will go with the maple tool tray and plywood splines. Any suggestions how I can make the dog holes. Will pick up a pair of steel dogs at Lee Valley tomorrow. I have radial arm, table saw, routers etc. Scared to make a mistake on one of these big pieces of wood.
Roger
Replies
rog
Square or round to get answers...
sarge..jt
Sarge:
I wasnted to go with the square ones. They look nicer to me( more old world).
Roger
rog
I think more stop and clamp accessories are made from round now, but the square are more stable. You can make your own square accessories if you chose to.
I was going to tell you to take mating top pieces longer than the table and either route or use a dado set to cut dodoes. Those dadoes would be mated together and glued before you glue the entire top together. You have perfect square holes. Just cut the pieces to lenght after the mating.
We have a problem, don't we? A little light bulb went on! If I remember from your post, you've already assembled the top. If that is correct, you have a much bigger job in store if you go square.
Post back if that top is already assembled. If so, we may have to call in the cavlary. My vacation ended today, but we'll get you fixed. Others will assist. If that top is assembled, expect to break some sweat. No other alternatives at this point.
Tell me it ain't so...... please.. ha..ha..
sarge.,jt
Sarge
Not to worry.... the top isn't assembled At the speed I am going it my never get assembled. You see, I started with 1 inch rough white maple and have laminated all the different pieces. I have built the doghole strip as in the book which is 4" high, 2 5/8" thick, by 77 1/2" long. I now need to cut the dog holes and then glue it to the next piece which is the same size except 2 3/4 " thick.
The plan calls for the holes to be cut on a 2 degree slant. I am wondering if that is necessary. I am driving to Ottawa for a Lee Valley course tomorrow and will pick up the dogs.
Thanks
Roger
Roger
You are making me think. I did my new bench in about two months, but the Klaus is a much more complicated design as far as all the pieces that inter-act. I have just looked at the Klaus details in the Work-Bench book. I now know what you refer to. I've given it thought and there are a couple of options.
First, is the 2* degree taper necessary? Rog, what the 2 degrees does is slant toward the vise or pushing force. The dog on the vise slants 2 degrees toward the dog or stopping force. The reason is so that the work-piece is driven down to the flat table. The driving force does put pressure on the stock. That 2* degrees helps eliminate the opposing force from pushin it up which would break the clamping bond. You don't want expensive wood jumping off the table while exerting another force such as planing. Remember this when you set up. I have seen people lose concentration and cut the taper in the wrong direction. Be attentive and double check before you cut.
Now, how to do it. I design simple. I would use home-made hickory or ash dogs that I put a 2 or 3 degree angle on the face. I went to the Veritas site and looked at their dog instructions. Does not mention having a angle on their square dog. Some dogs I've seen have an angled face to compensate for non-angled dog-holes. So forget that method.
If you have a dado, you could set an align the mitre gauge to 2*degrees. The problem with this is the stock is 6' 5" long. If you don't have the proper extentions on your saw, it can get squirrely on the ends. Extentions and proper clamping would be essential. I would not do it this way, even though it can be done.
Keep in mind the dogs are made in one piece of stock on the Klaus design. That stock is joined to the adjacent dog strip. You could cut the dogs 90* degrees and slightly over-size. Then cut small strips with a 2* or 3*degree taper to glue inside the oversize 90*degree square cut. This is an option.
There are probably other ways, but here is how I would do it. I would lay out the dog strip and actually scribe or pencil the angled cuts on the stock. Then I would clamp a straight edge piece of stock just outside the line. Take a dovetail or gents saw and using the template as a square edge, cut to the depth required. Remove and do the same on the other line for that particular dog-hole. Repeat for all dog holes.
Now you have a kerf width line on the outer border of all dogs. At this point I would use the router with an over-head bearing bit (pattern bit). Again set the template in place using the kerfs as guides. Add another template on the other line. Set the router to proper depth and rout out between the two upper template guides. If any cleaning up is necessary, use the shoulder plane.
You could eliminate the saw kerf portion and just use the templates with the upper bearing, but I wouldn't. The kerfs have been made slowly with a controled cut by hand. They should be accurate. If you just clamp on the templates, it is easy to mis-judge the scribe or pencil line. The saw kerfs define the out edge of the dog. Less attention is necessary to just clear the waste between them.
If you have questions or someone else has a better idea, don't hestitate to let it be known.. Sorry to be so long. Like I said, I would have designed it simple. Who does that Klaus guy think he is, anyway. A professional or something. ha..ha..
Regards...
sarge..jt
Thanks Sarge
6:30 am here and I am just heading 0ut to Ottawa for that course. 2 hr drive from Montreal where I live. I will think about your solution on the drive and get back to you.
Thanks for the help with this.
Roger
My bench is a variation on the Klaus design. I used the square dogs and I used a router jig and pattern bit to cut the dog slots. I cut them at an angle as well and I am very happy with them. The first bench I made used the same dogs but I did them with a dado blade on the tables saw and the cut a recess for the dog face with a router. The new bench was far too big to do the slots with a dado. Either way will work well for you.Tom
Douglasville, GA
If your radial arm saw is reliable and well-tuned, then you can make your 2 degree cuts easily. I would mark out each doghole on your stock because it is easy to become disoriented once you start flipping the stock around. And don't forget the 2 degree angle of the bench dogholes oppose the 2 degree angle of the end vise dogholes. Take care to control tearout whether you go with the radial-arm saw or the router. And make a test doghole in scrap so that you know the bench dog will fit.
I like Sarge's idea of the template for a router. One modification I might suggest is to screw or nail a plywood straightedge to connect the templates that define both sides of the dado. You can butt the straightedge against your workpiece, clamp the whole jig, and the dadoes will be consistent in width every time. Make sure the straightedge you use is sufficiently wide because you will cut into it with your bit as it exits the dado. This might even eliminate the need for the defining handsaw kerfs, but make sure to control tearout. I made such a jig for plowing out a bunch of dados for some bookcases I did. I even attached a strip to one of the templates so that it rode in the previous dado I made, thus allowing me to do consistent spacings of the dadoes. (However, my math was crummy because I ended up with bookcases that were about 1/4" taller than I had intended, but fortunately, I hadn't crosscut to the intended length yet. However I am happy to report that all the pieces matched because they were consistently off by the same amount, so at least I got the repeatability that I wanted.)
Ricky
I have little use for a RAS being a hobbyist, but there's a case where it could do it quicker than any other method.
Good idea to tie the template together in a jig. It would take a few minutes to make the jig, but the consistency and long run time savings would be enhanced. At the time I wrote that last nite, my mind was burned. I tried to give him several options as I don't know what tools he has to work with.
Well, time to rest it a bit. I suppose it comes with the turf on your way to becoming an "old fart". ha..ha..
BTW, I wish you could see the work-bench that Tom W that just posted built. Nice........very nice......
Have a good day, Ricky...
sarge..jt
Sarge,
You'd think it would take a few minutes to make up the jig, but I'm embarassed to say that it took a few hours to think it out and put it together. And my mind was relatively unburned at the time! However, in my defense, I didn't have a top bearing pattern bit, so I had to find a suitable template guide and then factor in the extra width on my jig, which probably accounted for some of my math woes. In the end, I liked the results enough that I'm thinking about an adjustable version whereby the templates are drilled for t-handles and bolts which ride in a corresponding slot on the straightedge. That way, one can do different size dadoes, especially the ones for plywood without having to buy those undersized plywood bits (15/32" and the like).
By the way, not to hijack this discussion, but from checking out the Lie-Nielsen discussion, I would like to hear your opinion of the Ashley Iles chisels once you've put them through their paces. When I was in New York this summer, the place I was staying at turned out to be only 3 blocks from the Tools for Working Wood showroom/office. The guys there are friendly, though they probably thought I was a little strange because I was a bit overexcited from seeing all those wonderful tools. The place isn't big, but there is a workbench to try out stuff, and I'd recommend it to anybody who is interested in quality hand tools.
Ricky
Good idea with the template jig. Various sizes of over-head pattern bits gets expensive, even though they are a very valuable asset. The time you spend building it will all be paid back in the long run.
Will get back on the Ashley Iles American Pattern chisels. I used one and it had superb balance. My friend says it holds edges. They should be here in the next couple fo days. I will hone them this week-end and then let you know what I think in the next couple of weeks.
I believe they're on 20nd St. Is that correct. And thanks for the inside on the personal there. That is assuring as I have never purchased there before.
Have a good day...
sarge..jt
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