Replies

1. 
   JeffKurtz | Sep 30, 2002 10:37pm | #1

   Scott Philipps wrote an article in Popular Woodworking (August, 2001)called Lathe Turnings Fab Five,  in which he describes five lathe chisels he thought would cover all the bases for a beginning turner: 3/16" diamond parting tool, 1-1/4" roughing gouge, 1/2" bowl gouge, 1" oval skew, and a 1/2" round nose scraper.    I believe Ernie Conover also lists 5 or 6 tools to get started in his Turning for Furniture.

   Woodcraft has Phillips' set available in Robert Sorby ($220) or Crown ($169) as pre-packaged sets, but you could put the same together yourself using less expensive tools.  Just make sure they're high speed steel, and you'll be fine.

   Jeff

   
   

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   Edited 9/30/2002 4:04:38 PM ET by Jeff K

1. 
   trusche2 | Oct 03, 2002 02:49am | #7

   Jeff,

     Thanks for the suggestion.  I'll order the back issue of PWW.

   Regards,

   Jack T.

2. 
   DennisS | Oct 02, 2002 03:18am | #2

   Greetings -

   I'm rather new to turning myself but from what little I've done I can suggest -

   A roughing gouge is best for getting the blank basically round. 3/4" is a good general size to go with.

   If you're planning on doing mostly bowls, I'd forgo the skew chisels. A 3/8" deep flute bowl gouge would be a good choice. Unless you think you'll be doing very large pieces, a bigger one wouldn't necessarily be to your advantage.

   A parting tool, diamond shape, is pretty standard.

   A good heavy 1/2" round nose scraper comes in very handy. It's not indespensible but close to it.

   I believe with those four you could 'get your feet wet' without too much outlay in cash. But I'd suggest you not skimp on quality - get HSS (hig speed steel) tools. They hold a better edge and hold it longer. Sorby tools is what I've bought mostly, mainly because the ww shop where I deal has a pretty good selection of them. That's not to say they're the best, but I find them to be quite serviceable.

   As time goes on, if you get smitten with the turning bug as most do, you'll end up with a whole raft of chisels, gouges, scrapers

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

1. 
   JeffKurtz | Oct 02, 2002 03:39am | #3

   Dennis,

   I always thought Sorby was top of the line.  What's better?

   Jeff

1. 
   DennisS | Oct 02, 2002 05:19am | #4

   Jeff -

   There are a lot of turning tools being mf'd over in Sheffield Eng., the names escape me now, but Sorby, good as it may be, isn't the only game in town. I have yet to order anything through any of the catalogs but may soon.

   There's one line of turning tools designed by a fellow that came up with the idea of using hollow aluminum handles filled with lead shot to dampen vibration. He uses a higher grade of steel than the 'ordinary' HSS.

   Then, too, there is a line of tools that uses a newer, harder type of steel than the HSS. Again, memory isn't my strong point anymore.

    Nothing's as simple as it used to be, is it! (grin)

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

2. 
   Trees2dust | Oct 02, 2002 09:44pm | #5

   Hi Jeff,

   I think Sorby is just so-so.  They think they are top of the line by the high prices they charge.   My personal favorites in my arsenal of tools are Crown PM (powdered metal) gouges, the ones with black handles.  They hold an edge much better than my Sorby gouges and the handles are much better.  Got them at the local Rockler- they were actually priced less than the plain M2 HSS Sorbys.

   Dennis is referring to Jerry Glaser's shot-filled aluminum handle tools, with cutting edges made from exotic tool steels.  I haven't bought any of his tools yet, but all the avid turners in my area use them and swear by them.  These are in the top of the line class.

   Rick

1. 
   DennisS | Oct 03, 2002 05:10am | #10

   Rick -

   Thanks for filling in the gaps in my post.

   I wasn't able to respond to the "difference" issue between the 3/8 & 1/2" bowl couges. Obviously one is smaller than the other but .... given only one, what would be the limitations of one over the other? As I mentioned, the scale of my pieces thus far hasn't seemed to be an issue using a 3/8" bowl gouge nor the 3/8" deep fluted bowl gouge.

   Beyond that, since I've got your ear,.... As I begin turning deeper and deeper vessels I'm finding it more difficult to get a good bevel rubbing cut down towards and across the bottom. Two things I'm thinking I'm doing in error -

   Due to a lack of such a contrivance, I don't have a good tool rest for extending down into the piece and end up with the tool rest outside the vessel with the gouge extending way down in. I'm thinking it would be worth the effort to fab up a curved rest for such things. I've already built some tool rests from 1"dia stainless steel bar stock so building one isn't an issue. Would you agree that this is something worth having?

   Does the bevel angle on the tool need to be steeper (more blunt) the deeper you get in order to maintain the bevel rubbing cut?

   Lastly, .... how many lifetimes does it take to learn how to use a skew? (grin)

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

1. 
   Trees2dust | Oct 03, 2002 09:39am | #11

   Hi Dennis,

   I like the 1/2" bowl gouge for its greater mass and rigidity.  It's great for roughing the outside of an out of round bowl blank- its mass keeps it from bouncing around as much.  The extra rigidity makes it better for reaching out over the tool rest, as in deep hollowing.  Where the smaller 3/8" gouge shines is in smaller work of course, and in small details where a big gouge would get in the way.

   For cutting across the bottom of a bowl, I keep one gouge with a blunt bevel.  That usually gets me out of trouble, but if the bowl sides are steep and deep enough, it's still impossible to get the bevel to rub.  That's where the heavy round-nose scraper comes in. 

   I haven't tried a tool rest that extends inside the bowl.  It should make the scraper easier to control, but I don't think it will help with the gouge if you can't get the bevel to rub.  You have to go buy some more gouges so you can have a selection of bevel angles <g>.

   How do you plan on making a curved tool rest out of 1" bar stock?  Heat and bend?  I made my own tool rests too, but out of steel bar, with hardened drill rod welded to the top.   Don't have a TIG welder for stainless (yet).

   The best skew exercise I know of is to cut beads, as Richard Raffan described in a FWW article a couple years ago.  You start with a cylinder, cut grooves, round the peaks into beads, cut the whole thing back down into a cylinder, and repeat, using only a skew.  It can be frustrating at first, but great fun when it goes well.  I forgot to mention this in an earlier post, but a larger skew, say 1" or even 1-1/4" is less likely to catch.  Leave the 1/2" skew for later.  When you think you're getting good, watch a Raffan video- you will be amazed at what he does with a skew.

   Happy turning!

   Rick

2. 
   DennisS | Oct 03, 2002 04:17pm | #12

   I like the 1/2" bowl gouge for its greater mass and rigidity. 

   True! Back to the tool store! (hahaha) Yeah, I don't think the size of the gouge (within limits, of course) makes a great deal of difference with respect to the size of the work piece.

   As for making the bent tool rests, I think what I'll do is miter and weld a short length of the bar stock to the end of another longer one then weld the vertical piece to fit in the tool rest. I've got a little Lincoln wire feed that's kinda huffin' & puffin on this heavy stuff. The trick is to pre-heat the bar to get decent penetration. It's not a weld that I'd want to post on "Fine Welding" discussion groups but they hold. Amazing what you can do with a good angle grinder.

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

2. 
   trusche2 | Oct 03, 2002 02:55am | #8

   Dennis,

     Thanks for the suggestions.  I was looking for the tools you described in a recent WOODCRAFT  catalog.  The deep flute bowl gouge is 1/2"  (CROWN HSS turning tools) instead of the 3/8" gouge you recommend.  Where did you purchase yours?  Or does the additional 1/8" matter?

   Thanks again,

   Jack T.

1. 
   DennisS | Oct 03, 2002 05:00am | #9

   Jack

   I've purchased all my turning tools to date at Rockler in Seattle. Because it's there. With experience, I suspect I'll explore other marks than Sorby. Crown, as has been mentioned, has a good reputation and the endorsement given here leads me to think I'd like to try one of their gouges some times. I dont' think it will be any time too soon before I decide to try out the Glaser(sp) variety, the ones with the shot-filled handles. Their a little too pricey for my present skill level.

   Does the 1/8" difference make a, uh... difference? Well, so far I haven't done anything on a very grand scale so I don't see where a smaller one would have been an advantage. Quite honestly, at this point I don't have enough experience or knowledge to really answer that question intelligently. I suspect I could have done most of what I've done thus far using a 1/2" gouge just as easily.

   On thing to remember is that bowl gouges are mesaured differently than spindle gouges with respect to their size. (Someone, anyone, correct me if I don't get this right -) Bowl gouges are measured with respect to the depth of their flute rather than the distance across their cross section - between the points of the arc formed by the edge. I believe that's the case. All's I know is there's a difference between how their size is determined. ..... I think (grin)

   Admittedly, at the beginning you'll not want to invest a fortune in tools unless or until you determine that this is something you want to pursue. But if you do decide to jump in with both feet, it won't take long before your 'stable' expands. Especially if it's bowls that "turn" you on! (grin) There are so many great tools for doing so many great things.

   By contrast, a good roughing gouge, spindle gouge and skew chisel is about all you need for spindle turning. Size being determined by the scale of what you intend to make.

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

3. 
   Trees2dust | Oct 02, 2002 10:18pm | #6

   Trusche2,

   A couple of books and maybe videos should be in your "toolkit".  For bowl turning I like Michael McDonald's book Turning Green Wood and Del Stubbs' video on bowl turning.  For general turning Richard Raffan's books and videos are excellent.  All of these books and videos will have tool suggestions.

   Now here's my list of favorite tools:

   General use: 1" roughing gouge, 1/8" diamond parting tool,1/4" parting tool

   Bowl turning: 1/2" bowl gouge (2), 3/8" bowl gouge, 3/8" detail gouge, long point heavy scraper, skew point heavy scraper, round nosed heavy scraper.  One of the 1/2" gouges is ground with a blunter edge for cutting the inside bottom of bowls.  The scrapers are 3/8" thick x 1-1/4" wide and are homemade from carbon steel, patterned after McDonald's book.

   Spindle turning: 1/2" and 1" skew, 5/16" and 1/2" spindle gouge.  Most of the work gets done using only a roughing gouge, 1/2" skew and parting tool.

   It's generally good advice to buy only good quality HSS tools, but carbon steel is ok for tools that are easily sharpened.  My one and only roughing gouge is CS that came out of the cheap Home Depot set and works very well.  I also have skews, parting tools and scrapers that are all carbon steel, either homemade or picked up at garage sales.  These tools are all easy to sharpen, so unless you're doing production turning, CS is ok.  For tool styles that take longer to sharpen, such as finger nail profiled gouges, stick to HSS.

   Enjoy your new addiction!

   Rick