Replies

1. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 11, 2005 06:15pm | #1

   Hi Richard,

   I'm not sure what mixture you came across earlier, but linseed oil and shellac aren't a good mix. Museums used to use a blend of linseed oil, turpentine, beeswax, and vinegar (acetic acid) as a polish, but stopped when they realized it would turn very dark and was difficult to remove.

   If the finish is is good shape and just lacks lustre, a coat of paste wax will bring it back to life. Microcrystalline paste wax polish, like Renaissance for example, is a good choice. To hide scratches, you can use a colored paste wax.

   If the finish is worn through, then padded or sprayed shellac is a good choice. If the original finish is lacquer (in most cases), then a coat of lacquer is also a good choice.

   Paul
   http://www.finishwiz.com

2. 
   forestgirl | Sep 11, 2005 07:14pm | #2

   What type of mixture you'd use depends on what kind of finish is on the piece.  For a varnished or oiled piece, you could use equal parts mineral spirits (or turpentine) and BLO or mineral oil.  For a shellaced piece, 2 parts mineral oil to 1 part clear shellac.  If you're working with a crazed surface and need to "melt" and reamalgate the finish, you add in the appropriate solvent.  For shellac, this means turpentine and BLO (equal) plus denatured alcohol (2x).  Lacquer, turpentine, BLO (equal) and lacquer thinner (2x)

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 11, 2005 08:06pm | #3

   forestgirl,Where did you come across these formulas? The mixtures all include incompatible ingredients (solvents and resins) as well as non-drying oil (mineral oil) with drying oil (BLO) and an evaporative film formers (shellac and lacquer).Paulhttp://www.finishwiz.com

1. 
   forestgirl | Sep 12, 2005 03:03am | #5

   The solvents are in the recipes for damaged finishes because they help dissolve and redisburse the old finish.  Those formulas are similar to the Formby's type "refinishers" that cost a fortune in the store.  Personally, I'd not use mineral oil, but Bruce Johnson lists it as an alternative. 

   I've used a couple of his formulas but not all of them, back in the days when I bought and sold antiques and vintage furniture.  His handy book is titled The Weekend Refinisher.  Here's a link to a short bio.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 12, 2005 03:37am | #6

   Hi FG,Thanks for the reference. I have a copy of the book and found those formulas in the back. Mixing those ingredients sure doesn't make any sense to me, but he says they've been "tested."I'm thinking they may be "old-time" recipes before people really understood what they were mixing together. I noticed he has a couple polish formulas that include linseed oil which is no longer recommended because of the long term problems it creates.Paulhttp://www.finishwiz.com

1. 
   forestgirl | Sep 13, 2005 08:49pm | #7

   That book was a godsend for me when I was trying to breath life into old furniture that had been stuck in a basement somewhere or not cleaned, waxed or polished for 30 years or so!  His narrative style is very enjoyable to read, and I like his conservative approach to old pieces.  He might not be in the Flexner/Jewitt/Dresdner mold, but very helpful nonetheless.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 14, 2005 12:59am | #9

   I like his style too ForestGirl. He uses the step-by-step approach a lot and that works well for me.You do have to watch out for some of the info he has though. I'm looking at Chapter 3, Saving Old Finishes, "Reviving an Original Finish" and I see he has olive oil and vegetable oil listed among the options for use on cutting boards, etc. I was actually looking to see if he recommends and of the recipes in the back of the book in this chapter, but don't see that he does. Another one just caught my attention... he's recommnending brushing lacquer thinner onto a lacquer finish to remove scratches, nicks, and blemishes. There's a lot of potential for disaster in that one!Anyway... put together, the books that Flexner, Jewitt, and Dresdner have complete a top-notch library on finishing. All that's left is faux finishing and Pierre Finkelstein has that covered!Have a good one,
   Paulhttp://www.finishwiz.com

3. 
   forestgirl | Sep 14, 2005 09:37am | #14

   Pierre Finkelstein ??  Hmmm, haven't had the pleasure!  Mr. Jewitt has a prominent place on my bookshelf.  His style of presentation really helps me figure out what to do.  I still get dizzy when I think about finishing using anything but a varnish/oil mixture, LOL!

   I get the impression that quite a few people use olive oil or veggie oil to finish cutting boards, etc.  Not something I'd do, mind you, but it seems to be prevalent.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

4. 
   forestgirl | Sep 14, 2005 09:40am | #15

   PS:  Just checked the book, and it's copyrighted in 1989.  Wonder if it isn't time for a 2nd edition?  He just might change a few things if he thinks about it a bit!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

5. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 15, 2005 02:09am | #16

   I think you're right! An updated release should do well.
   Paulhttp://www.finishwiz.com

2. 
   JohnH | Sep 14, 2005 12:14am | #8

   Paul,

   I understand your objection to incompatible mixtures. What would you recommend for mid-1800s furniture with a varnish finish that has hairline cracks and has become dull?

1. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 14, 2005 01:19am | #10

   Hi John,If the piece has a lot of monetary value, contact a conservator and have them work on the finish. The nearest museum should be able to recommend someone.Are you sure it's varnish? Is it an American piece? Is the film clear? Colored? Thick?If it's a "typical" piece, then fixing it up yourself is a fine option. If the cracks don't go all the way through to the wood, you can just give it a coat of paste wax for minimal impact or sand the finish back a little and apply a coat or two of the appropriate finish.If the cracks do go all the way through to the wood, the best thing to do is to remove and replace the finish.
   Paulhttp://www.finishwiz.com

1. 
   JohnH | Sep 14, 2005 01:44am | #11

   Paul, Thanks for your reply.

   They are American black walnut. The finish is not shellac, being not soluble in alcohol. The finish is clear and thin in the sense that wood pores are just discernable.

   My initial idea was a two-step approach. First, scrub with mineral spirits to remove the dirt without raising grain. Then wipe with a diluted wipe-on varnish to fill the cracks without building the thickness of the finish. Or is there a better way?

2. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 14, 2005 02:49am | #12

   John,If the finish is in good shape, cracks don't go all the way through and no bare spots, you shouldn't have any problems with raised grain. In which case a cleaning with a very dilute, neutral Ph, detergent solution (e.g., Dove dish soap) to remove water-soluble dirt and grime followed by a naphtha wipe-down to remove oil-soluble grime will get it ready for new work. VM&P Naphtha dries faster and is less oily than mineral spirits. Test both cleaning agents in an inconspicuos spot to make sure they don't create a hazy look in the finish.Once clean, very lightly abrade the surface by hand, with the grain, with 320 or 400 grit just to give the finish some "tooth" for the wipe-on varnish. I would not use a fast-drying or polyurethane varnish. A coat or two of wipe-on varnish should do a nice job.Paulhttp://www.finishwiz.com

3. 
   JohnH | Sep 14, 2005 02:59am | #13

   Paul,

   Thanks for the advice. Sounds like a good plan.

   John

2. 
   Kevin | Sep 12, 2005 01:34am | #4

   I've read (Jeff Jewitt, I believe...) that Mineral Oil should never be used because it never dries.