transitioning from premium to vintage planes – wood or steel? Thoughts
UPDATE:
Found on eBay a Marples No 5 sized wooden bodied plane with the traditional metal adjustor for sale for 30ish pounds in the UK. Looks used but not abused and I love real world patina on a tool. With shipping to USA, comes out to $100 total or so; not cheap but not too expensive either (costs over $50 to fill my car up at the gas station). I bought that one. Seemed the best of both worlds to me. Wooden and controls I like (I don’t mind the backlash). Sill need a smoother. Not sure what I will do but you all have provided lots of good suggestions. Thanks.
Sincerely,
Joe
Dear All,
I’ve been woodworking with hand tools for 7 or 8 years. I enjoy it and have added a bandsaw and planer to take care of some of the donkey work. I’ve mostly been using premium hand tools. Mostly LieNielsen and some Veritas. They have worked well and I don’t have any real complaints so this isn’t a vintage vs. premium brand.
I want to move to work with vintage tools becuase I want to work with vintage tools; I have no plans to sell the premium tools. I’ve been very happy with the metal 1930s (best guess) Craftsman No 4 with a highly cambered blade. As such, I’m looking for a No 3 and No 5 size hand plane as these 3 sizes are what I use day in and day out.
The big question is wood vs. metal for the No 3 and No 5 sizes. I see pros and cons to both and cost is not an issue for either. I’m not opposed to transitional either. Just curious if any out there have gone through this and have opinions on the matter.
Many thanks,
Joe
PS I already own vintage chisels (boxwood handled Marples) so no need to debate those.
Replies
Given that you have the metal premium planes, I'd opt for wood. It will take a bit of practice to learn hammer adjusting, but it will become second nature after a while. These planes are a joy to use once you get them tuned properly.
The closest thing to a 3 is a coffin smoother. Most of the ones i've come across had pretty wide mouths, so you may need to put in a mouth patch.
I have a 1867 (about) #3 metal Bailey that I like a lot. My only comment about using vintage hand tools is that the were made to be used on vintage wood.
Really? I thought vintage hand tools were made to be used on vintage hands.
Wow, you got that right!!
An 1867 #3? A preproduction model?
Just looked at again today. On the chip breaker it says Bailey patent date December (?) 1869. On the blade it says Stanley Rule and Level Company. There was a chunk out of the side of the base, does not affect function but definitely a user plane and not a museum piece. Works great. I also got a #3 Stanley Bedrock at the same auction but have not dialed it in yet.
I agree with wood. Then the question is, single or double iron? (I went single.)
Most of the old wooden planes are dogmeat. Utter crap. The ones that are in good shape aren't really that old, and probably date to the middle of the 20th century.
For new vintage wood bench planes, I think it might be down to Steve Voigt, now that Old Street Tool stopped making them.
Or, my favorite choice, make your own wooden plane. Start with a jack. You want the mouth a little more open anyway, so it's a great first build. New single and double tapered irons are available from Red Rose, or you can find vintage irons everywhere. Do a single iron for the jack. Bill Anderson has a great video on making a traditional 18th century jointer, but the process is the same for any size. Save a smoother for later builds. It's more difficult, just by being smaller.
"I want to work with vintage tools".
This begs the question, why? Is it the way they work or is it just a matter of owning antiques? If the former, I'd recommend avoiding the vintage in favour of the self-made copies of their design.
As JohnC2 mentions, many old planes are junk, with only a very few salvageable. But their designs are far from junk, so why not obtain the full pleasures of vintage plane functionality by making your own versions? You then also get to acquire another set of woodworking skills.
You can even refine - perhaps improve - those old designs.
Lataxe
I like their lighter weight. I prefer the simple thin 01 steel blades. I like putting old tools back to use.
Here is a picture of a Jack Plane I built (Krenov-Like). I used the old beat up one I bought at a flea market as a model. I just like trying to make handplanes. I modeled it while learning Sketch-Up last year. I'm still learning.
Thanks all. Leaning heavily towards wood. If old ones are often in poor shape, leaning towards either making my own (likely double irons) or having someone making one for me such as Red Rose, Steve Voight. Not cheap but it would last a lifetime.
If you want to build one there is a good article in Mortise and Tenon #12 on building a wood Jack plane.
For building a wooden plane of the traditional kind but using the Krenov method rather than cutting a complex slot for the wedge, this is a useful free video:
https://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/build-own-wooden-plane/
Personally I like the Krenov method of two cheeks clamping the plane innards, with a metal bar to retain and lock a wooden cap iron .... but with a Norris style adjuster rather than just a hammer for adjusting the blade. Lee Valley sell Norris adjusters with a fine thread (for fine adjustments) that's perfect for the job. As are their various plane blades.
Another useful Veritas design thingy is the small grub screws through the cheeks, abutting on both sides of the blade at it's sharp end. This enables super fine side-to-side adjustments of the blade, especially if four rather than two grub screws are used.
Here's a couple of mine. I've built a few of various designs now, all from scrap leftovers from furniture making so the cost is usually around £50-75 for a blade, adjuster and other small metal parts.
Lataxe
I was wondering if you were going to post a few images of your "Lataxe" built planes. I'm pretty sure you and I have shared these images before, and it's nice to see them again!
I have several old Stanley transitional planes that I use and really like. Of course I had to replace the soles, the old soles were pretty beat up, and I added an adjustable mouth feature to a couple of them which improved their performance.
I also built a "transitional " style fore plane out of Padauk with an unconventional, ergonomic rear push "handle". It's very comfortable to use. And as a bonus Joe, you can see my vintage boxwood handle Marples chisels in the background.
Very nice! I'm very much looking forward to using those Marples boxwood chisels I bought a few years ago.
I bought my Marples boxwood chisels new at Highland Woodworking in the early 80's. Yes, I'm old.
I am definitely part of the silver haired club as well. I can no longer be called young and gas gauge is below the half way mark as well.
I've got plenty of gas.
Do you happen to have any info, blog post, close ups of the guts of the metallic plane part? I've thought of doing this as well.
I'm not sure if the post regarding "guts of the metallic plane part" was aimed at me and my Padauk fore plane. If yes, the frog is an old Stanley frog from a number 4 plane. I can remove it and show you the mounting if that's what you're after.
Let me know it that will help or if your post was directed as someone else.
While I'm mostly an old Stanley man,there is always the Emmerich Primus or Ulmia type planes. Best of both worlds! There are the Norris infill planes if you can find one for less than you paid for your car. To say that old wooden planes are ALL junk is not exactly true. I have several old wooden planes that are fully functional and one coffin type plane that is probably 200 years old.
Taken as a whole though I find that my Stanley planes do everything that I want them to do. Prices are all over the map on Ebay and other auction sites but by carefully shopping you can end up with several good Stanley planes for the price of one Lie-Nielson.
Making your own planes could be a nice self satisfying hobby, I wish I had time to devote to all my hobbies.
I've considered the Emmerich (ECE) and Ulima. ECE has models with and without adjustors. Hard to beat the price. Don't get me wrong, I love my metallic planes. Just want to try something different. The few times I've used a plane I've made as a scrub plane or a transitional one, I've loved the wood on wood feel. I've also thought of making my own Franken plane taking the adjustor guts out of a Stanley and putting it into a wooden sole. Every now and then I will see a Marples brand plane that did something like this at one point. All good problems to have.
Another wooden plane alternative, made in the USA, are these:
https://blumtool.com/blum-planes/
I have one of Mr Blum's foreplanes, made of mesquite (which is very stable) that performs extremely well, even on the gnarly woods that like to tear out if you even bring a plane near them. :-) The blade can be very finely set and it's holder is a sort of automatically-locating cap iron, which is the mainspring keeping the tearout at bay.
The engineering is unusual. Have a read of the technical stuff on that website for details. Suffice it to say that the Blum plane lives on my bench rather than in the plane cupboard, acting in various ways but primarily to finish straight edges in the aforementioned gnarly wood for gluing; and to plane the high spots off larger panels with roiling grain.
Very modern engineered gems rather than vintage, though.
Lataxe
Thanks Lataxe. I was thinking last night just to get the simple ECE that I tap with a hammer. These Blume tolls have caught my eye for sure. If I get one, it would be mesquite. I've worked with mesquite with hand tools - oh my what a tough wood (felt about twice as hard/tough as oak if I had to quantify and dulled my edges even quicker) but oh so beautiful and was worth the effort.
For an outlier suggestion you could try one of the excellent HNT Gordon Australian wooden planes. They are available with either "hammer" or Norris-style adjustment.
Another great option for me to consider. Thanks. COmpletely forgot about these and really liked them when I looked at them.
New to this forum, so hello. Honestly, I've been buying, selling, collecting, using old hand tools for 50 years. Nearly all of my hand planes for use have been Stanley Bailey, some S casting, some Bedrock. Wooden planes of all sorts depending on the project. A Bailey #35 was always a favorite. As for old tools being junk, you have to be selective, spend time learning how they were made and how to fettle them for use. Junk? No. Different? Yes. It's a learning curve. I've never bought a new plane and never had a need to buy one.
BTW, that's a Marples technical school plane. Interesting combination of the classic adjustment mechanism and a wood body
Yea, I really like it. The problem was I didn't notice it was missing the adjustor screw and knob. I have one on there but needs some fettling to work well and will likely need a machinist to help me out on this and will take a while to get around to finding someone to do it.
most like it's all metric
Just wanted to give an update. I was digging through my tools and found I had a No 3, 4, 5 vintage Stanley in my possession (don't recall getting them). I've got them assembled and just need to sharpen them before I begining the next project. Still interested in woodies and transitionals. The two transitionals need a bit of tweaking and I'm putting that off for now as a bit anxious to get onto the next project. Will use the vintage and will end up using the transitionals. Also, will end up using my childhood tool chest my dad gave me as well. All good problems. Just need time and patience to get it all done.