hi there, i’m lisa and i’m new here and pretty new to woodworking as well. i’m also in the middle renovating my kitchen in my 100 year old house. my question is about finishing though, which is why i posted here. we are doing most of the work ourselves and our next step is installing our solid maple kitchen cabinets. however i first need to finish them. i’ve done all the sanding (worked up from 150 to 400 grit) and we sprayed a coat of sealcoat on them. i’m in the process of using 600 grit for a light sanding. we are planning on using one of transtint’s dyes and my question is – do i need to sand between coats of the dye as well? we are using a HVLP sprayer.
also, what finish would you suggest we use?
as you can imagine, by now i’m kicking myself for purchasing unfinished cabinets but i also think they’ll come out nicer for having done it myself.
Replies
Generally, the dyes are put on raw wood, though TransTints can be used as a "toner" by adding to the finish (laquer, varnish, etc.) Have you read the info available on the Homestead Finishing web site related to using these dyes?
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/pdf/TransTintTDS%206-2006.pdf
I'm sure you'll get lots of help here, but don't be shy about posting in the Homestead forum. Jeff Jewitt will answer your question directly, so right from the guru's mouth. <grin>
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 6/21/2007 1:21 pm by forestgirl
thanks for all of the replies! i guess i should have mentioned that we did a LOT of testing on some of the same wood. we ordered extra spacers and did lots of experimenting with colors and with the sealcoat and the finish. i have been to the homestead site and read all the info (i didn't know they had a forum though). thanks for the tip. i thought that was where we got the info on using a light coat of the sealcoat under the dye to prevent blotching on the maple. hmmmmmmm. when we tested with the scrap pieces the dye seemed to really sink in even with the sealcoat. we did testing with and without. and it was a bit of a different color with the coat underneath. am i understanding right in that what you guys are saying is that the dye is going to rub off over time? we used a polyurethane varnish over i think two coats of the dye in our testing. and the sealcoat i believe is the unwaxed one. the guys at rockler even suggested using it. am i also right in my understanding that i don't really need to sand between coats of dye but only between coats of the poly? that would really help in regards to time. i could sand off all of the sealcoat if this is really going to be an issue and the color is going to come off. i want them to be right. and yes, we're using a wagner HVLP sprayer and i believe the pigment we are using is a mixture of a transtint waterbased dye mixed with one of the powders. like i said we did a lot of experimenting before fixing on a color we like. and thanks again for all of the replies. i love this site.
Liezard,
NO the dye will not rub off due to the seal coat, as long as there are coats of finish over it.
If you have done a test board, and came up with finish you like, then do exactly what you did to the sample board.
The concern was that the dye, when applied over a film finish, might have nothing to "grab" onto, and come off when touched between application of dye and additional finish coat.
The concern would only last until the next coat of finish was applied and dried. After that the dye would be set between finish coats.
Again, if the sample board gave the look you want, do exactly as the board and you will be fine.
Mike
thanks so much mike. and thanks to the rest of you for your excellent tips. i've been checkingout the homestead forums and found some really great info. so thanks to you all! i'm sure i'll be asking lots of questions around this great forum with the kitchen remodel.
The tests you did are the important pieces of data now. If the Seal Coat is thin enough to let enough dye through and you like the results you are in good shape. So, while that's not usually the recommended practice there is nothing that will come back to give you future problems. Since you have spray capabilities I would suggest that you dust a couple of coats of the Seal Coat over the dye to lock it in place before shifting to a brush on varnish. It's the brushing that would have the biggest potential to pick up stray dye.
Stick by yourtest pieces. I've sprayed dye over shellac, and it works, I use a 1 pound cut and I believe Seal Coat is a 2 pound cut, but sanding will give the Seal Coat some tooth so the dye will stick.
The seal coat was not a good idea, since the dye needs to penetrate into the wood to work. On a sealed surface it will just sit there and be rubbed off or lifted into the next coat of finish since it has no binder to hold it.
You have two options: First you might rethink how you will color the cabinets. A pigmented wiping stain will work over the seal coat, in fact, with maple the seal coat is desirable to eliminate "blotching". It may limit how dark a color you can achieve. You need to work out the finishing schedule on some similar wood prepared in the same way as the cabinets, including the coat of seal coat before you decide on this option. You might also experiment with what the dye looks like over the Seal Coat.
The second option is to sand off all the shellac. This is challenging since it needs to be pretty thorough, though not too bad if you just have one light coat of 2lb. cut Seal Coat. In any event there is no point sanding the bare wood past 180 or 220 grit on the bare wood. If you are spraying the dye you can use multiple coats and work up to the correct darkness. Sanding between coats of dye should be extremely light and is only needed to remove any raised grain. I prefer to do that after the first coat of finish has hardened the fuzz and sanding has less risk of cutting through the dye. If you were applying the dye by hand you use only one coat with the concentration of the mix determining how dark the wood is dyed.
Between coats of finish 320 (CAMI) or P400 is as fine as you ever need to go.
Forestgirl is right. To dye the wood, the transtint should have been applied before the sealer. But by coloring the finish, you can tweak the color (toning), it just won't be as dramatic of a color change as dying the wood.
It might help if you post a picture of the cabinets as they are now, and a picture of the look you want to achieve. We can probably recommend a finishing schedule.
Above all, don't do anything else to the cabinets until you experiment on scrap or an inside surface, so you can make adjustments before completely committing yourself.
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