Am about to make a set of dining table chairs, in the Greene & Greene style. As we all know most dining chairs have a, say, 5-7 degree angle between front legs and rear legs, wherein the seat width at rear of chair is smaller than seat width at front of chair. Now comes the challenge: In many Greene and Greene chairs the front and back legs are finish shaped to trapezoidal angles wherein the legs’ outside and inside surfaces (not front and back surfaces) parallel the angles of the side seat rails, front to back. Compounding the challenge is that most Greene and Greene back legs also have beautiful curves to them. So folks, how do I cut my rear legs, to incorporate both the trapezoidal shape AND the gentle curves? Do i do the trap surfaces first on a larger piece of stock, then reducing that stock when I incorporate the curves? Is there a jig solution that would accomplish both tasks? At what stage (s) do i place the required mortises for the traditional mortise and tenon joinery (I suspect before the trap shaping, at sufficient depths so still efficient after the curves are done) ? In all of my literature accumulated over the years, I have not found any articles that are helpful, so am looking forward to any and all of your ideas and suggestions. Thanks!
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Replies
cal,
Not being familiar with the Greene and GReene style, I wonder, are you certain the rear legs are trapezoidal in section? Are you working from a set of measured drawings, an extant chair, or photos (which can be deceptive)?
Most generally, in traditional chair work, the rear legs are rectangular in section, and either oriented to be in a plane with one another, facing front, and meeting the back seat rail at 90 *; or oriented to be in a plane with the side seat rails and front legs, and meeting the back rail at the seat's flare angle.
Shaping of the legs' surfaces above the seat to transition to the top rail's curves or angles, can certainly give the legs a trapezoidal section in this area. This shaping is generally done after the cutting of the seat joints.
Most often, the front legs begin rectangular or square in section, with only their outer faces bevelled or angled to the seat's flare angle- after the joinery is cut; if- not usual- both outer and inner faces are at the seat angle, then their front and rear-facing surfaces are at 90 degrees to the inner and outer ones.
A truly trapezoidal sectioned rear leg would require extravagant wastage of stock to yield the proper shape. Further, such shaping would require that all four seat rails' tenons, shoulders, or leg mortises be cut at the seat's flare angle, needlessly complicating construction.
Ray
Trapezoidal chair legs
Thanks Ray: See my response re Garrett Hack article. I know the tenoning and mortising will be complicated, but (I hope-dreamer?) not necessarily "needlessly". What I think is most challenging is trying to figure out the way (s) to incorporate the shaping of the back leg curves while retaining also the trapezoidal shape which starts at ground level and extends all the way up to the crest rail level. I am a hobby woodworker, not a professional who must be ever conscious of time and costs of materials, so perhaps in the 1900's when these chairs were made, labor was cheap ($.50 per hour), and the customers were usually quite wealthy, these issues were not paramount. Still looking for suggestions.
cal,
Seems to me that you could accomplish this on the rear legs by tipping the bandsaw table to the appropriate angle, and sawing the legs to your pattern.
Ray
Chair legs
This is not an answer to your question - it is a clue.
I dimly recall a FWW story of some years back dealing with exactly the question you raise. Garret Hack comes to mind but I am not sure. Maybe some one else can help you track it down. Good luck.
Frosty
Hack article
Is this the article you were thinking of, Frosty?
https://www.finewoodworking.com/fwnpdf/011166080.pdf
Garret Hack
You nailed, Ralph. That was good hunting.
Frosty
Trapazoidal chairs
Cal,
See Ralph Barker's post below - maybe it's above. Who knows how this thing 'sorts'.. The link he supplies might answer your questions.
Frosty
Trapezoidal chair legs
Thanks for the Garret Hack (one of my heroes) excellent article on simplified chair building. Unfortunately the chair leg shapes in his article are square in shape at the floor level, and retain that shape until at least the seat level. The Greene and Greene chair legs I am attempting to duplicate start trapezoidal in shape at the ground level and retain that shape to the top of the legs at both the seat level for the front legs as well as the rear legs to their top at the crest rail level. The trapezoidal shape to the inner and outer sides of all four legs is thus parallel to the side rails angle. Another way to describe the chair legs shape is that the front and rear face of each leg (NOT the inner and outer faces) is perpendicular, thus square, to the front and rear (NOT side) rails.
Trapezoidal chair legs
Hi Ray: Thanks very much - that idea might work. I'll try it!
As I understand, Greene and Greene chair legs are parallelograms, not trapezoids.
I make half inch templates in mdf of outside surface. Trace the outline on a blank; band saw as close as humanly possible to a thick pencil line, and then use the template to pattern rout the angle and curve. The angle and curve start a good half inch away from the mortise areas on the upper rail, so that area is square and easily routed for mortises for the side to side mortises. The back to front rail mortises are angled, usually about 7 degrees. The mortise is square to the face; the tenon shoulder is angled. That angle is made on the router jig.
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