I just sent off a note to the Fine Woodworking editors about using the Trapezoidal bookshelf plans shown so well shown by Niall Barrett in his bookshelf book as the carcass for a pair of stereo speaker cabinets. I think this style and shape would really lend themselves to some very elegant Arts &Crafts speaker cabinets. Not sure if they will respond, so am interested in anyones experience building fine speaker cabinets and their choices for design, speakers, crossover circuits and any other details that would save me time and expense before I undertake this little redesign and building project.
dg
Replies
I have no idea.. I still have my old Heath kit (As In Vacuume TUBE) 100 Watt amplifer and some really old 16 inch speakers.. Magnets are about 100 pounds (As I remember) I forget.. My Son-In-Law is really INTO music and told me once.. I sure wish I could have YOUR setup!
I told him 'WHEN I DIE!'
He went into the kitchen by the knives and I went for Ice-Cream!
I crank it up with 'Feelin' bad Blues by Ry Cooder and the neighbors call the COPS!
Edited 8/17/2005 1:45 pm ET by WillGeorge
EDIT:: SORRY.. I messed up your post.. I was really going to add a post I had for making/testing for a 'Tuned-Port' for Plywood and Particle board enclosures for different speaker types..
I can't seem to find it.. I'll keep looking. It had really good info on enclosure volume and how to calculate the port...
For my big woofers the 'tuned-port' sure made a difference... Oh and the Mag. were only 60 lb.
Edited 8/19/2005 8:01 am ET by WillGeorge
Sounds like you're describing speaker cabinets built by at least two different companies that come immediately to mind: the venerable corner mounted Klipschorn, and the much smaller original Bose multi-directional.
IIRC, there's already at least one magazine dedicated to folks who like to build their own loudspeakers.
Good luck,
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
This morning I had fun surfing the web and found some sites with massive amounts of information on speaker building. What I want to do though is the woodworking, not the math and electronics. I'm also trying to keep the cabinets very close to the style and scale of the A & C trapezoidal bookshelf and that makes sorting out the speaker sizing, mix and inturn the crossover and venting issues different than what I saw this morning. I may try to go upstream a little differently on this and post the dimensions of the bookshelf on one of these speaker sites and see if I can generate the details there.Dave Graf
... any relation to Otto?
Are you referring to the Bose 901's? Perhaps the most missplaced speaker of all time. Lots of people put the in the corners. They were supposed to be right in the center of the wall and pointed towards the wall. That was their whole "Direct Reflecting" thing. A friend had 4 of them with a monster sized Quad Marantz receiver (the one with the cool blue scope), best quad setup I ever heard.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
"Are you referring to the Bose 901's?"
Yep, thems be the ones.
I was never a big proponent of the Bose direct/reflected sound - always gave me a headache, despite hours spent (after hours) with the owner of the stereo store getting the setup just right (never placed them in corners, though that was the preferred placement for the massive Klipschorns), trying lots of different components, etc.
Since then, despite their enormous financial success and marketing power, Bose has always seemed to represent a triumph of marketing over sound quality and bang for the buck - to my ears at least.
I'm not sure I've ever heard an affordable system (whatever that means ; - ) that could convincingly reproduce the sound of an acoustic piano well enough to fool a pianist - to me, that's the acid test.
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
I didn't like the quad/901's all that much for serious music either. But when stoned, a discreet 4 ch King Crimson or Pink Floyd would sound really good on them. Ditto on Bose and every Japaneese speaker I've heard. There's some great equipment made in Japan, but they just don't seem to make speakers that sound right. Back to Bose. Those little cubes are made made to appeal to the wife's eye, not the husband's ear. That's why they sell so many of them. A few years ago when I was upgrading to a 5.1 setup I was getting a lot of pressure to get the little Bose cubes. I liked the Energy's better, but just couldn't convince myself I'd be happy doing any critical listening. I ended up with NHT Super Two's as sort of a compromise. I said "Afterall they are mini-towers!"
Back in those days the Braun Triamps were a serious contender for my system for a while. My demo records were Eldorado (ELO), Silk Degrees (Boz Scaggs) and an import of the 1812 Overature w/ period canons and bells. I ended up with the B&O M70's since they were very accurate and at 4 ohms very efficient which worked nicley with the 35 W receiver.
John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
Edited 8/20/2005 11:50 am ET by Elcoholic
I built these speaker boxes for a customer last year. They aren't trapezoids, but that's just a matter of some tapered cuts, right? - lol
I made these from 3/4" maple plywood with splined miters on the edges. The front and back were 3/4" MDF that fit inside dados in the top, bottom, and sides. The front trim was rosewood.
After I had assembled the boxes (but before I finished them), the customer took them to an audiophile buddy who wired in the speakers and ran some tests. After the testing, I finished them and made the stands. According to his buddy, the speakers gave excellent sound.
Since making these, I've talked to some serious audiophile types who tell me that MDF makes the best speaker boxes because it's acoustically "dead"
If you can find a commercially manufactured speaker that's made from wood products and isn't MDF, I would be very surprised. Plywood is not as dense and because of this, the cabinet will resonate unless some pretty serious bracing is installed. Old speakers were made of plywood because that, and not MDF, was available. Once MDF came into the picture, it was pretty much over for plywood. There are some cabinets made from composites of various kinds, but they're less common. If the cabinets being made are fairly large and have no narrow dimensions(like less than 12" in width)and bracing is needed, an extra end can be made, then placed on a tablesaw with the fence set 2" from the blade. Raise the blade till it comes through and cut till there's a frame that fits inside the box and can be secured to the box. What you want is a rectangle inside a rectangle and each side is 2" from the outer side. This doesn't take up much internal volume and won't change the characteristics of the box unless there are more than three or four of them. Basically, the material is less important than keeping the box from resonating.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I remember my old Sansui speakers (momento of Nam - lol) were made of particle board with a walnut vinyl veneer. I just thought that it was a cost cutting device until I talked to the serious audiophiles last year and found out that particle board or MDF was the material of choice.
One of them had visited a JVC factory sometime in the 70's and told me that they cranked out a speaker every 15 seconds. JVC also made speakers boxes for other companies and the only difference was the grill and (sometimes) the fabric.
"Basically, the material is less important than keeping the box from resonating."
Highfigh,
Do you remember the speakers made in the late seventies that were double-walled - Wharfdales - with sand in the void? IIRC, Beveridge also tried sand to fight unwanted resonances in the late 70s or early 80s.
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Yes, I do and I almost mentioned it last night. Sand was used before Wharfedale and I think someone is still using it. IIRC, there was a plug on the cabinet that could be removed in case they needed to be moved. I have an uncle who built a pair of speakers in the late 1950's with mismatched drivers, but since he was a technician at AC(Before they were called Delco Electronics or Delphi), he had access to pink noise generators, real-time spectrum analysers, etc. This allowed him to tune them so they sounded basically the same. In the mid-1980's, Jamo used sand impregnated resin for the front panel of a line of their speakers. It was a very neutral sounding speaker line and were very dense.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/loudspeakers/DIYspeakersP2.php
This is an interesting link that goes to the point of the Trapezoidal cabinet design. It would not be too hard to change the shape very slightly to mirror the A & C bookshelf design. While I agree that most speaker cabinets are made from MDF, that does not rule out a nice quartersawn case that matches the appearance I'm looking for. It would be an easy matter to either line the hardwood case or laminate the MDF to the quartersawn material for a super-rigid construction. I am going to look at the design in this link a little harder and decide to either modify it to look more like the bookshelf or leave the basic dimensions alone and make that design look more like the A & C bookshelf. I'm trying to avoid completly reinventing the wheel or in this case the speaker. Dave Graf
Beveridge! I haven't heard many people that ever heard of or heard them. I bought my 1st good system at a high end shop in '76 whcih, at $2300 was bottom of the line for them. Yamaha CR600 just barely out of the grey market days and B&O turntable and M70 speakers. Really wanted the DQ4 Dahlquists but couldn't afford a quality amp big enough. Just buried the CR600 last month, the M70's are still going strong in the #2 system although I did have the tweeters replaced and bi-wired them after blowing them up watching Top Gun in the late 80's. The shop had a pair of Harold Beverage System II's complete with the argon Q bottles hanging on the back and the high voltage booster. There were only 2 amps that would drive them, the biggest AR or Ampzilla. I think they cost $15k. Sounded absolutely amazing.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
Hi John,
Boy, do you bring back memories!
I recall sitting at my kitchen table, soldering iron in hand, building Hafler DH-200 power amplifiers purchased in kit form - back when MOSFETs were the newest in amplification; they're still going strong 26 years later! I remember wiring four speakers using Hafler's quasi-surround setup with only the difference signal passing through the rear channel speakers.
Rogers LS35A's were the first decent loudspeakers I owned -before began coveting the early B&Ws, Magnepans, et al. Still remember using "Jazz at the Pawnshop" as one of my favorite LPs for comparing systems.
I've finally managed to pare down my vinyl collection to fewer than 5,000 records, but the CD collection continues to grow. Alas, the reel-to-reel and I parted company a few years ago. So goes life...
As Bob Hope liked to say, thanks for the memories,
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Gee, I was just looking at this chapter of Barrett's book last night! I see the attractiveness of your idea, but I guess I need to complicate things for you a bit -- sorry!
It's certainly doable, but I'm not sure how far you can get without diving into speaker modelling programs at the very least. And there are construction considerations/constraints.
The high frequencies will depend on the size and shape of your baffle (the front or face board). Not sure I can hear the difference this makes, but it's something to take into account.
Second, all the good cabinets I've seen plans for (and the ones I made) need extensive internal bracing to keep the panels from vibrating and contributing an unwanted coloration to the sound. So plan on designing in a lot of internal structure. The internal braces for my 45" tall by 9" wide by 14" deep speakers are separated by about 8", top to bottom, each with one large whole or two offset half holes.
Plan on using MDF with veneer or a dense, void-free plywood. If your baffle is large it might make sense to go as thick as 1 1/4" MDF for it.
On the other hand, a non-rectilinear enclosure is generally regarded as a very good thing, since it will minimize unwanted internal modes. I agree that this would be a very attractive speaker, but getting it to sound as good as it looks will take some effort
Edited 8/17/2005 7:33 pm ET by jkl
If your asking advice on cabinet construction, this is a good place....ps. almost no one uses solid wood, too problematic...use MDF. If your looking for advice on actual design, that is very complicated.
If I were still in the market, and were building, I would try these as they are likely quite good due to their open baffle design and are based loosely on a design by linkwitz who is quite well known in audio circles..
http://www.doddsy.net/steve6_010.htm
If you do a search under DIY speaker design or building you will find a lot of links....
DG,
I've built a number of designs created by Wayne J. His website is http://www.speakerbuilder.net He does a great job of outlining the plans and even providing part numbers for the speakers and crossover components.
Remember to duplicate the volume of the cabinet you wish to alter and it should turn out perfect. Remember to brace the cabinet effectively, you don't want to hear the mdf vibrate later.
If you have any other audio questions/concerns, http://www.partsexpress.com has a great forum with knowledgeable people.
Chuck,
The links you posted were great. I'm amazed at all the intricacy in design that these speaker builders use and their passion. I can now see several speaker projects in the future at my house. So far everything tells me the basic shape of the Royhill Trapezoidal bookshelf is actually very conducive to a good speaker enclosure. Now it will be a matter of matching the drivers, crossover and enclosure size to make it work out. All stuff I think I can sort out. The best part is that I will get to have some really cool big speakers in my front room. My wife likes music, but not big boxy speakers. I have a note into Wayne about a comparitive project to base the layout on and will look forward to his response. <!----><!---->
I think these speakers will be my fall into winter shop project. I will post some images of the results when I finish up.<!---->
Dave Graf
Have you estimated a volume size for the speakers? My wife would like them to look like the lastest Bose, but even Bose can't get a decent sound from those tiny, plastic boxes.
I'm really interested in what size drivers and arrangement you're dreaming.
I'm currently holding all the components to make Wayne's Eros MKIIs. Trouble is I have too many projects and I have even bought the mdf yet! I have constructed his PeeCreeks and Dayton Home Theatres. I've also read over 30 reviews of the Dayton III MTM that make them sound like he should have patented, sold, and retired off them...I plan on making a pair just out of curiosity.
I have spent hours critically listening to the PeeCreeks and I can attest to their abilities. WOW! The off axis response is more amazing than anything I've heard in the local speaker shops. (Very critical if you're going to use these for home theater.) The frequency range emitted by these is very, very broad! They handle anything well down to 40 Hz without any problem. Down from there, they are still above the pack for any 6.5 inch. Don't worry about the high end--it's all there!
Keep me posted!
Chuck
Another great resource for speaker components, design and info is Madisound(http://www.madisound.com). They have a complete line of drivers, crossover components, kits and they have equipment for speaker testing(finding the speaker's parameters instead of relying on the sheet of paper that comes with them) so the box/crossover design will be accurate. For those of you who want to design your boxes according to Thiel/Small parameters, get the software! Doing it with a calculator or making up a spreadsheet is a major PITA and whatever the software costs, it's worth it in terms of amount of information such as frequency response, power handling, crossover design variations, etc.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Cousin of mine set out to design and build speakers commercially. He had a tall trapezoidal design built for a very light brittish miniature cone. He has the sales experience and the engineering skills to design from first principles.
His design philosophy (at the $5000/pr market) was that the bloke bought the sound and the lady was buying furniture. He put a LOT of effort into the external size and dimensions because the furiture side was usually the sales killer.
They were mdf. he had the boxes made on a large and very accurate commercial setup. From recollection the tolerances achieved were .04mm. Each speaker pair first had the cones selected from a reasonable stock as a matched pair, then the boxes were hand tuned using oscilliscopes etc as the final construction step.
Cool but not in my budget priority.
Dave-Looks like you've gotten some good advice so far. Veneer over MDF is definately the way to go, and a trapezoidal enclosure will help minimize internal reflections. Regarding your comment that your wife does not like big, boxy speakers - small speakers won't get you deep bass extension, so you may find the bottom couple of octaves missing. One way to get around this would be to build a matching subwoofer to augment bookshelf-size main speakers. I just finished building a sub myself (veneered with curly Tropical Olive), and it makes a big difference. One of these days, I'll take some pics and post them in the gallery.One more link with may be of interest to anyone wanting to build speakers is http://diyspeakers.net They run an email list concerned with all topics related to speakerbuilding. Quite a few knowledgeable people on it.-mark
The trapezoidal bookshelf I'm looking at reproducing is actually very large (that is what is got my attention in the first place). The base dimension is 18" x 18", the top is 12-1/2" x 12-1/2" and is 60" tall. One option that I'm looking at is to use Wayne J's Veritas speaker and crossover arrangement from Speakerbuilder.net. What I'm thinking of doing is maintaining the basic external dimensions of the Roycroft trapezoidal bookshelf cabinet and simply using the MDF as a laminate on the interior sides (this would be 7/8" oak + 1/2" MDF), building a 1-1/2" laminated front baffle and back for the cabinet. The interior volume can be adjusted to match those of the Veritas arrangement. Any extra space that I end up with will accommodate a kind of false drawer that I will fill with sand and semi permanently screw into place. Positioning stiffners and internal braces is also essentially the same as those for the shelves and the building process is pretty well documented. So externally the shape and appearance will very much be a quality piece of furniture, the difference is just that you won't see shelves, you will see a dark screen over the front matching the shape of the cabinet.
I've had fun researching all the DIY speaker building sites and probably should have done a speaker project a long time ago. My speakers may not sound identical to his when finished, but his room is not like mine either, so the results are going to vary regardless and I accept that. But getting to have some really big kick butt speakers in the front room is going to be worth the price of admission and until I had this idea there was no way big boxes were ever going in the living room of my house. My wife appreciates all the projects I build and lets' me buy all the tools I ever want, so coming up with unique and attractive solution is a twofer kind of deal. Dave Graf
Dave, sounds like you're not married :-) Remember the old audiophile mags - they had something called the WF or wife factor. 60" heigh by 18x18 square cabinets are big - even if beautiful you're going to have a battle with the SWMBO (she who must be obeyed).My Alison CD-8 (3' x 12" x 12") have been relgated to the woodshop - we now have a Kef 5.1 system... sounds fine (not like the Alisons :-( )Good luck, hope they sound great.Oh and look around you can find cabinets made of concrete! No resonance but heavy!Mark
Visit my woodworking blog Dust Maker
In the mid 80's I worked for Merlin part time, went to a couple of CES shows with them, and then a couple more with Convergent Audio Technology (CAT tube amps). The best system I've heard used the Avalon speakers, CAT electronics, and a wild turntable/arm/cartidge combo that I can't remember the name of (~ $4k~ for the TT setup). The Merlins with the Grant mono blocks were pretty impressive too. Before I got into wwing, I had a small speaker business and designed about 10 different high end speakers, settled on a few of the better ones and made and sold about 200 pairs. I also modified alot of other decent mid-fi brands.
The best designs I've heard usually contained alot of or all of the following:
- high quality drivers are a given
- high quality passive crossovers with a minimalist approach
- minimal or treated front baffle with no refractive edges
- it's critical to put the tweeter and midbass as close together as possible
- individual inputs for each driver
- no larger than 8" midbass drivers
- good quality wire made for sound
- spikes or cones to couple the speaker to the floor
- for a hobbyist, a 2-way system is much simpler and usually sounds better
- try a D'Appolito alignment (MTM)
- heavy, dense, braced cabinetry
- proper height, placement and angle is critical
- many of the "tricks" make only a small difference....but summed they make a big difference!
Edited 8/20/2005 1:04 pm ET by scotty
Edited 8/21/2005 7:41 am ET by scotty
Was the turntable Oracle with the SME tonearm and Sumiko cartridge?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I don't think it was the Oracle, but was of similar esteem and from the same era...it had a vacuum platter. It probably was the SME arm now that you mention it, but am not certain about the Sumiko....we used the Sumiko for one of the shows, and/or may have experimented with it....I've got CRSS now!(Can't remember "Stuff" syndrome)...we're talking late 80's early 90's. Was there ever a "Grasshopper" cartridge that was really expensive? ...if so, that might have been the one with the system that really blew me away. The shows were really awesome. We were always off the beaten path with the other high enders, and our show system was usually in the $15-50K range.....waaaaaaaay out of my league. After hours most of the folks who treated it like a business were out to dinner entertaining dealers. There was always a handfull of fanatics who stayed behind and played...swapping stuff in and out until the wee hours of the morning when security would send us on our way....those were the guys on the cutting edge of the technology....talk about passion and smarts! (Charlie Hanson, Ken Stevens, Bobby Palkovic come to mind....)
Was the body of the cartidge made of rosewood? That sounds like Koetsu. Late 80's or early 90's? Now you're making me feel old. I was going there in the late 70's. Thanks, thanks a lot! (I need a nap.)
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Still got the CRSS working re: the Koetsu...the name rings a bell, but... Sorry about "dating you" with the era reference, but your sign on name referring to the term "HiFi" already had you dated to that era! ;-)It's funny, by the time I was 30 I had a fair amount of knowledge, some honed skills, and a strong passion for audio and wanted that as my career path. By the time I pieced together my "poor man's" high end dream system, our primary music was Raffi, the Muppets, and Alvin and the Chipmonks! Now that we're nearly past that phase 15 years later, it's very likely that I no longer have the high frequency hearing sensitivity to discern the subtle differences! :-( Ever notice how bright the latest designs from David Thiel sounded? .....I'm told the same is true of the Stradivarious violins. We lose our high frequency hearing, so we compensate that into our designs. BTW - I became officially old when walking became a form of excercise!
Yeah, we compensate but if it sounds the way we want(or need) in order to enjoy it, what's the problem? I'm going to borrow an Audio Control SA-3050 RTA from work soon so I can find out what my room/speaker response is. I know I have reflection issues at high SPL, but I want to actually see what's going on. I pink noised the speakers when I built them(pre crossover design- just made sense to find out what the drivers were doing before imposing my will on them) but have switched to Vifa tweeters from Foster(which I had on hand but didn't perform well) and changed to Madisound 6.5" midbass from Peerless (which lost their surrounds due to age and the fact that I used them in my car before building cabinets for them). The high end was a bit hot for my taste after going to Vifa so I added an L-pad. Human voices sound incredibly neutral on them with vinyl, radio, TV, DVD and CD as the source and I listen to a lot of different styles of music. I originally built them so I would have speakers in my basement workshop but when I first listened to them, I put the other speakers back in their box and haven't used them since. That was about 8 years ago. I did add a subwoofer a couple of years ago, however.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
"15 years later, it's very likely that I no longer have the high frequency hearing sensitivity to discern the subtle differences!"
I heard that in addition to front row Deep Purple concert seats and high powered rifles, that routers and shop vacs are especially good for maintaining one's high frequency hearing :)
I've come to the same conclusion. Now that (to a point) I can afford a hand-built AR tube amp or a pair of Silver 7's, a nice Linn or Well Tempered turntable and really exotic speakers I lusted after all those years I can no longer hear the !@#$% difference, if I ever could. On the up side my aural sensibilities are not terribly assulted by the sound put out by my iPod plugged into my car amp using the 128 kB AAC format.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
WHAT'S THAT YOU SAY? YOU'VE GOT A ROUTER IN YOUR FRONT SEAT? COOL!
Vacuum turntable...sounds like it was a SOTA turntable. They used SME arms in a lot of their setups.
CES. Wow it has been a few years since I wlaked the halls of the McCormack or the Vegas hotels in search of the latest and greatest audiophile equipment.
So you were with Merlin. It has been a few years since I heard them. I lost interest as the sound was moving away from the musical side and towards to much analytical sound for me and the ever increasing costs for components of any value.Michael Mastin
Curly Woods
Figured Hardwood Lumber Sales
McKinney, Texas
Toll-free: 866.Mr.Woods
Checck this site http://www.diysubwoofers.org ,there is a huge wealth of info with regards to to speaker cabinet designs,drivers,Xovers,etc you wont go wrong.good luck.
Check out the book Loudspeaker Design Cookbook by Vance Dickasin. This book has more information than you would ever need. Very technical, but it'll make you want to design the perfect speakers. A lot of good advice in all the other posts. My suggestion would be bigger is not better, speakers are designed for a frequency range and those are the limits so you don't want to push the limits with your crossover points, separate the woofer from the higher ranges, and make sure your box is the right size and make sure the outside looks like fine furniture, because you want the outside to look as good as it sounds. The reason i bought my tablesaw was to build new speakers, which i haven't done yet because woodworking is too addicting. Otherwise good luck and i want to see pictures.
I'm not sure if it's true or not but it makes sense to me that information cable like cat 5 is better than run of the mill speaker cable because of the lower oxygen content in the copper. Can someone verify or disprove this?
Edited 8/22/2005 8:21 pm ET by treeguy
Please describe the difference between Cat 5 and decent speaker wire for me. Remember, impedance affects frequency response. Speaker wire is made for audio frequencies, Cat 5(e) is made for much higher frequencies. Generally, heavier cable is better than thin for driving speakers. This is also dependent on the length of the cable run and power going to the speakers. I know someone who has done TEF analysis(Time/Energy/Frequency) on many speaker cables because he is in the commercial sound/video field. He hasn't found much usable difference above 16ga for most applications. If someone wants to hear that their cable is better than another, they will. Most available speaker wire and cable uses low oxygen copper, anyway. I won't say there is no difference between the various cables, I just think the marketing BS has overblown the difference.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
By run of the mill, i'm not talking high end monster cable type stuff, but for the cost one could use several pieces braided together of cat 5 cable and have the same results (for much less cost) than monster cable, if one were to choose. And maybe they all use the same stuff just in a different wrapper. I agree with you that heavier cable is better for longer runs, but what about in the boxes themselves, keep the same diameter or could you use thinner diameter. i'm more apt to use the same gauge just because you've gone that far you might as well. Maybe like you said marketing BS has made a nonissue an issue and the only way to tell is to use fancy equipment that can tell above and beyond any normal human's hearing range. Usally the arguing factor of one's better than the other is how much it cost.
The effect of the wire gauge is directly proportional to the length of the wire.I did see an article buy some guy who apparently has too much time and he braided a lot of Cat 5, then went on to say that it was the best sounding wire he had ever.......yada, yada, yada. One other thing multiple, braided conductors have is higher capacitance. This not only affects frequency response, but it also can make some amplifiers unstable(remember the problems with Kimber Cable?) Not much difference if you are familiar with Kimber Cable."I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 8/23/2005 7:01 pm ET by highfigh
Treeguy-I wouldn't spend too much time (or money) worrying about speaker cables. Unless you're using wire that's clearly too small to carry the neccessary current, or are using some whacky cable design which introduces enough inductance or capacitance to really alter the signal, changing cables is not likely to change your system. The order of magnitude of the difference is going to be dwarfed by nonlinearities elsewhere in the system (biggest nonlinearity being the frequency response of the speakers). Here's an interesting link if you'd like to read further:http://sound.westhost.com/cablewhitepaper.htmThat being said, I'm currently using speaker cables I made from CAT5 (not for the subwoofer, though), but only because I'm a computer geek by profession, and I've got a bunch for free from the last time we rewired the building.-mark
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled