For anyone who followed my previous question about problems getting “Tried & True Varnish” to harden –
I have attempted another session of finishing with this interesting material.
First – I didn’t mention in the other thread that I had also tried using “Tried & True Original Wood Finish” (“Polymerized Linseed Oil and Bees Wax”). I bought both at the same time. I was only curious about the Linseed/Bees Wax finish. I didn’t anticipate actually finishing any furniture with it – only wanted to see what it was like. It’s milky white – much more viscous that the Varnish product. About the consistency of room-temperature butter. My experience with it pretty much paralleled that of the Varnish, I just didn’t mention it in the previous post because I wasn’t trying to get any real finishing done with it.
I digress . . .
I told my wife about the opinions in the other thread – that some had expressed great confidence in the T&T product, while others had shared my dismay and skepticism. She said, “Did you tell them about the humidity?”
That stopped me. “Huh?” I said (I’m very articulate). “What humidity?”
She insisted that we have recently had very humid weather. I had not noticed it at all. It’s seemed fairly comfortable.
She said, “It’s been awful. Would that make a difference?? (!!!)
“Well,” I said, trying to seem non-challant, “It could. Yeah. Maybe.”
WOW! What woodworker doesn’t know that warm and dry is better than high humidity, any day? Who hasn’t put off finishing during an approaching storm or during rainy weather?
Aha! it’s the humidity. THAT’S the problem. So, I figured I better rig up a drying box. I made one from a shipping crate. There’s a 40 watt lamp in the bottom, holes in the bottom and top. It gets up to 92 degrees inside. Warm air can be felt escaping the holes in the top. I don’t know what the relative humidity is inside, but it’s got to be much lower than ambient. (BTW, the weather has been fairly comfortable, it has not been all that humid here the last several days.)
I prepeared some of the pieces for finishing. I took several teak pieces that had been finished with Tung oil many years ago and steel wooled them down. They were absolutely dry. The “old finish” buffed down with a fine white powdery residue on the pad. Nothing out of the ordinary. I put some T&T Varnish on some, T&T Oil/Bees wax on the others. I used a VERY thin film. After an hour, I wiped those suckers for two more hours. There wasn’t any finish coming off on my rags for a good half hour of final wiping. Put them in the drying box. Good start, huh?
I could swear that I heard a little voice inside my head say, “Yeah, right!”
Come back in an hour. My shop is pungent with the aroma of Linseed oil. Wonderful smell. It smells like I’m brewing the stuff in there! That didn’t happen before. “Great,” I say to myself. “That’s what I needed. A warm, DRY environment. Now that stuff will harden!”
Funny thing, though. That little voice was laughing.
8 hours. Garage still smells strongly of Linseed oil. Everything in the box is just slightly, pleasantly, warm to the touch. The pieces have a slightly tacky, soft feel. There are small areas of wet-looking “micro-beads” just like before. Hmmm. I take the pieces out and thoroughly wipe all of them absolutely dry. My rags have noticeable finish on them. Put the pieces back.
24 hours. Garage still smells like Linseed oil. All the pieces are tacky. All have “wet” spots. I wipe them all down again. Finish comes off on the rag. Put them back. Little voice is laughing louder.
36 hours. Garage has slight Linseed oil smell. All the pieces are soft. Surface is tacky. No obvious wet spots. Wipe them all down. Wet finish is apparent on the rag. Put them back.
48 hours. Garage smells like normal garage. Pieces have soft, tacky finish. Rub them down. Finish comes off on the rag. Put them back.
72+ hours. Finish is soft. Wipes off on rag.
This is NUTS! Little voice is laughing his A.S.S. off!
Shall I mention that a rag which I had used to first apply T&T finish 3 weeks ago and had hung to dry is still wet? I can squeeze drops of finish from it. There isn’t the slightest stiffness indicating that any polymerization is happening. Other rags (Tung, varnish) hanging for only a few hours are on their way to serious hardness.
My conclusion: I have 2 cans of raw linseed oil. One is labeled T&T Varnish,” The other, “T&T Original Wood Finish.” Snake oil. Maybe lousy quality control? Maybe an unpolymerized batch of oil got into distribution?
Nah. I don’t think so. Too much coincidence that both cans don’t polymerize. I don’t think that I have an abberation. I think that someone in the company, taking pity on woodworks, secretly drops some metal drier in random cans of this useless product. THAT’s why we get some reports that the stuff works. SOME people are the lucky repipients of those cans with drier in them!
For those of you who use and like this product, God bless. Keep on truckin’
Well, I’ve learned. 3 weeks of wasted time. Back to Tung/Varnish – my REAL tried and true!
Rich
Edited 6/23/2002 4:33:45 PM ET by Rich Rose
Edited 6/23/2002 6:20:28 PM ET by Rich Rose
Replies
For what its worth, I am in the midst of second project with polymerized tung oil from Sutherland Welles. (No commercial endorsement/benefit) I am really happy. Cut it by at least 50% with MS, brush on lightest possible coat and wipe off when tacky. Second time wet sand with 600 grit W/D paper and wipe off before paper grabs. Really smooth and a very natural feel. Ready for recoat in several hours. Will finish off with 2# shellac, then some of Jewett's Fuhr 3200 alkyd W/B.
I put some BLO on a pine bench top and it mildewed, where the straight TO on the legs and braces did not. Not really a fair comparison, but enought to put any LO product on the bottom of the list.
Now, if only the PTO did not cost $100/gallon...
John,
Never having had any problem whatsoever with Tung oil, from any manufacturer, using it straight out of the can, or combined in various proportions with any varnish I could lay my hands on . . . I'll stick with Tung oil preparations to the absolute exclusion of Linseed oil from here on.
Rich
Rich,
I'm one of those chosen few who has tried T&T varnish oil but encountered none of the problems that plagued so many others.
First, I guess I ought to say that I got The T&T just to experiment (as I do with any product with which I have no experience). So my familiarity with it is very limited.
I tried it on some pine panels and some scrap pieces of oak. I applied it as I would BLO or "Danish Oil." I put what I judged to be just the right amount on the wood and then wet sanded. I kept sanding as long as I could stand it (under the same theory as with Danish Oil or BLO: the sanding dust and oil mixture would work like a filler). If it got too tackey I would just apply a little more. There was very little to wipe off when my arm got tired.
While sanding I did notice that the oil got noticeably warm. I don't know if that was simply friction from my sanding or whether it was some chemical reaction or both. But it did get much warmer that any other finish I've applied that way.
I left the samples in my kitchen overnight. The next morning they were a little sticky; but a couple days later--sooner than I would have expected BLO to cure--the finish was smooth and dry.
I was pleased with the way the wood looked and felt. It had that built from within gleam to it, and it was silky smooth to the touch. But it was no better looking or feeling than the finish I get with BLO.
So because the T&T doesn't seem to be anything special, it's awfully expensive for what it does, and because all of you with your bad experiences have scared me, I will not use it in the future.
Anyone want to buy half a can of T&T Varnish Oil?
Alan
Alan,
Interesting, because T&T specifically recommends AGAINST using the product in that way.
Rich
Rich,
Hmmm. Sometimes it pays NOT to read the instructions. (Ignorance can be its own reward?)
But now you've got me thinking. I usually read the instructions--but I don't always do what they say. (Some varnish/poly/lacquer manufacturers say to never use shellac under their product; to instead use their product thinned down or, preferably, buy another of their wonderful products... But I digress.)
Being unfamiliar with the T&T why would I not follow the directions? At least the first time?
Thinking back I seem to remember buying the T&T because I'd read a blurb about it that said the "Varnish Oil" was really just an oil finish--though "improved" by a secret process and with maybe some additional resins and other ingredients tossed in(V-7? Retsin?). That is still my impression of the stuff: it's just another oil--though supposedly somehow better. And, again, with oil finishes I often use the wet-sanding technique on porous woods.
All I can say is to (again) repeat that what I did produced a mostly cured finish in a few days; and it had a similar "hand" and look as BLO or Danish oil wet sanded the same way.
Rich, if you'd like to try your luck, I still have almost a quart of the stuff. Cheap.
Alan
Alan,
No, no. I wouldn't think of depriving you of that magic can of stuff. You keep that right there on your shelf. It's prolly a collector's item!
8-)
Rich
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