Greetings,
I am relatively new to woodworking and have been making dovetails using Ian Kirby’s method of leaving the pins slightly recessed and planing the tail boards flush with the pins. I like this, but when I plane the tail boards I inevitably end up chipping the ends of the pins. The only thing I can think of is to plane in from both ends, but then I would be going against the grain on one end risking tear out.
It sounds so simple to plane a drawer to fit, but this has been giving me fits. Any suggestions?
Replies
I would abandon Ian Kirby's method; it leaves face grain dovetailed to end grain, which as you know makes for difficult planing.
Instead start with tailboard and pinboard of equal thickness. All that's needed is a little fine tuning afterwards.
I usually use a router to make dovetails but even hand cut once I finish off with a straigh bit.. LITTLE at a time so hardly any chipping.. Just make sure you have a good guide fer that router.. They eat stuff up withought askin' the operator! Dampen the end grain helps (I think)EDIT.. Never was good with a Plane.. Hell, I never could learn to fly...
Edited 9/30/2005 4:29 pm by WillGeorge
I was wondering if a flush trim bit would work; not real good with a plane either.
The pins/tails should be only slightly proud- try clamping boards on either side prior to planing, wetting may also help. Use a low angle block with the blade just slightly out.
Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
If you use his method correctly you are flushing the drawers and doing cleanup in the same step. The pin ends should not chip since, in theory, you barely hit them with the last pass of a very finely set plane. However, the "fix" is to make the last pass from front to back (depending on your perspective) and fix any rough patches on the drawer sides that result with a scraper.
It's always smart to choose mild grain for drawer sides whenever possible.
I do the reverse of Kirby and cut the joint so that the pins are slightly proud and I flush the pins with a rasp or a smoothing plane. The drawer sides are not planed at all after the joint is glued. A little scraping won't hurt the fit if you need to clean up a blemish or two but go very lightly.
I agree with the previous post.My pins are always a lot smaller than tails so leaving that small amount of end grain proud makes them easy to flush-up.I'm not really familiar with Kirby's method, but seems like way too much planing after the joint is glued up. I try and shoot for as close a fit as possible when laying out and cutting so final fitting is not a chore.
I use a similar method, and have a similar problem unless: I score the pins/tails flush with the surface and plane diagonally inward from each corner.
Good luck,
Charlie
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A finely set and sharp plane should have no trouble with the end grain ... in fact, I just did it a few hours ago. I go in from the front/back towards the middle of the drawer across the joint to avoid chip out. Also, you should not have much trouble with tear out on the side if the iron is sharp and you use a very fine shaving. If you still have trouble, double-check your edge and shaving thickness. The very nice thing about this approach is that you get an excellent drawer fit and also no/very minimnal sanding is required of either the sides or the end grain before finishing... a very nice surface results. This all said, going for a close fit - leaving the tails only very slightly proud - is useful to minimize work, like the other posts suggest. Have fun...
Ron
In addition to what Rod says-there should be no fear of cleaning your d/t's by planing them-in fact it is necessary. Obviously you avoid chip out by "going" in i.e from front to back on a drawer front for example, and if the grain is otherwise you can improve things by using your plane in a circular motion to clear the area around the joint-then you can plane normally from the other side, leaving a little scraping at worst to be done.
And here is another reason why I favour the 1/2 sizes in metal planes-they are wider and heavier-usefull for the above mentioned scenario.
Sanding drawer sides is counter-productive and bad practice-don't go there.
Planing your drawer sides to the correct fit should be a satisfying thing-if not you have not got your method right.
Philip Marcou
Edited 10/1/2005 2:54 am ET by philip
Thanks for all the suggestions. I thought most of my frustration was probably due to my plane technique. I will try leaving the pins slightly proud as well to see which I like better although Kirby's method makes a lot of sense to me. Leaving the pins slightly recessed means the drawer front and back are already perfectly sized to the opening and planing the tail boards flush perfectly sizes the drawer and removes the gauge lines all at once.This brings up another question. Do you leave the end grain of the pins "as planed" or finish with sandpaper. I have not been able to get a planed end grain surface to look as nice as one polished with 320 or 400 grit sand paper. But again, perhaps my plane/technique is not yet up to the taskThanks,Eric
Woods,
your last question:if you planed your sides suitably you can just scrape them with a card scraper if you like-then any tool marks are taken care of, and you are done. I prefer to put a finish on my drawer sides, so I do as little sanding as possible with as fine paper as is practical.
I attach a pic of some drawer sides, and a picture of some dovetails which I planed level, then scraped , using the Veritas plane insert scraper which some people say is junk.There was a need to scrape as my plane had left some roughness very near the edge. The pic is unforgiving -you can even see some cross grain sanding marks when I sanded across by mistake on my stroke sander after I had glued up the panels for the carcass.
I think in general if you are not putting any finish (such as shellac sealer) then you aim to have preferably a planed finish such that all you need to do is sand with the finest grit practical so that the surface is smooth to the touch-i.e you are not sanding to remove marks or level things. If you have some tool marks unavoidably then out comes the scraper of choice.
Sorry-long winded answer.Philip Marcou
i have tried both methods and i prefer pins slightly proud. unless you plane( shoot) or sand ( and i don't recommend sanding if you are going to be using edge tools later)the ends first, as soon as you get flush you have coarse looking end grain. i prefer to trim with a chisel and finish with a plane . Circular strokes do help prevent chipout. good luck and keep dovetailing!
Your planed end grain should surpass sanded end grain in color and clarity by a bunch. I don't know how you could get an aesthetically lesser end with a low angle plane than by sanding, but if that isn't working for you, and you don't have too many to do, just try paring them with a chisel.
End grain looks especially nice with oil in your finish.
If you leave the pins and or tails proud a sharp low angle block plnae works great. A great secret is to spray a bit of water from a spray bottle on the end grain and it makes the job significantly easier and you get very fine shaving, pretty cool.
Yep, there are all kinds of good ways, depending on how many, etc.
I usually make the whole box about 1/8" oversize and then run it thru the tablesaw to check it for square and to remove all the little tearouts and splinter tracks that you get some times.
I have never tried misting endgrain to get it to plane better, but I will, as one of those noble experiments that a guy just has to do on occasion.
I use a sharp chisel first to level the high spots,then a swipe or two with a plane.Sometimes I skip the plane and sand with 320 paper, depends on the type of wood. Straight grained hardwood planes best for me.Poplar and pine I level with the chisel and lightly sand.
mike
I leave both pins and tails long, and box slightly oversized and trim to size on the table saw on most boxes under 6" or so in height. Taller than that, I still leave both pins and tails a lesser bit proud and take them down with a flushcut saw, or more usually a belt sander.
Both of those methods remove any dings, toolmarks or evidence of missing splinters.
I've found that sanding doesn't work real well. The end grain is harder than the face grain, so the parts that are proud of the surface tend to stay that way.
Well, I have had good luck with it. I just sand the ends down and stop when I get flush to the drawer sides.
I have only done that on drawers over what I can trim on the table saw, which is unusual for me. I don't make those a whole lot oversize, because I know they will be a pain to dimension after glue up.
I also make my pins and tails slightly proud and trim them with a Veritas low angle block plane. A trick when using a block plane on end grain is to only plane in from an outside edge and to turn the plane on about a 45 degree angle. This lets the plane iron slice the end grain instead of hitting it square on. I find that doing it this way I can take very thin shavings from the end grain. This leaves a very nice finish on the pins and tails.
Edited 10/31/2005 9:48 pm ET by JohnfromScarborough
I also make my pins and tails slightly proud and trim them with a finishing sander!
I usually make the whole box 1/8" to 1/4" big all around, and clean it up with a light cut on the table saw. That also removes any little tearouts, and corrects for any little out of square.
Isn't this a major hassle for any drawer more than about three inches high?
Up to about 6", it isn't any hassle. I am only taking off probably 1/32", and cut 3", flip the box and cut the other half. I don't make many boxes over 3-4", anyway, when I get over 6", I usually have to stop and plan ahead abit more, but none of it is too much of a pain to do.
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